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Madden 2010 News Post

WOW! What a way to end a half!!!!

Well Madden (and NFL) fans, as promised, we’re bringing you a sneak peek at Madden NFL 10 by releasing a feature that you’ll see in this year’s game! Remember, it’s only a mere 6½ months away!

We have a big goal as a team this year - to relay out as much information as possible. Hopefully in the process we can make the development of this game extremely transparent so you all, the fans, can get an inside look at how the game gets made. In doing so, we’ll often be discussing new features with you as they are finalized and polished, meaning that each and every one of you out there can give suggestions directly to us to try and shape the game towards your preferred direction. Madden NFL as a Franchise has one overarching goal it has to reach every year, and that is to be the best sports game in history. I’m going to leave the discussion to you all on whether we’ve reached that goal in year’s past, but I do know that now we all get to be a part of making it happen this year. You are no longer posting to forums in vain!

So as we sat down as a team and tried to decide what information we wanted to release first, it really made the most sense to focus more on the technical details for the first part of the year. This is for a couple of reasons – one, the majority of the people looking into Madden info right now are most likely going to be the more hardcore fans (who appreciate the details), and two, we obviously want to save more of the big name feature stuff for later in the year closer to launch time. You should see this theme continue throughout the first few months of our updates. Another reason we really like this approach is that some updates (this post included) are purely about new technology that actually hasn’t been fully fleshed out in the game yet. So the hope is that we can take feedback from the community in regards to maybe new ideas they’d like to see us implement with the new technology. This is one of the most exciting aspects for us as a team in regards to our interaction with the community throughout the development cycle for Madden NFL 10.

Enough talk – on to the new stuff!

Let me tell you a story of playing Madden NFL.
It’s 3rd and 10, and I’m down 14-7 against my buddy over Xbox LIVE. He’s a pretty conservative player, so I know he’ll sit his safeties back a bit and stay with man coverage on my outside receivers. I’m going to try and send my slot WR on a deep fly to clear the safety out, and hit my #1 WR on a Deep In. I saw Kurt Warner and the Rams with their "greatest show on turf" make this look easy week after week in the late 90’s! So I take the snap and analyze the situation quickly – no blitz, and the safeties are dropping out…money. I wish I was better at going through progressions, but I’m not - I’m pretty much watching my #1 WR all the way. He’s just coming out of his break on the deep in, and he’s got at least 2 steps on the defender trailing him in man coverage. I fire it in there, a perfect bullet pass where I think only he can catch it. Right before the ball gets to him the DB turns around and in one quick motion steps in front, picks it off, and is headed back the other way. HUH? THE DB NEVER EVEN SAW THE BALL!!

Ever happened to you? Did your controller survive to tell the tale?

It is my pleasure to introduce Madden’s newest piece of technology, one that is also shared within many of the EA SPORTS games, called "Procedural Awareness". What is it? We’ll you’ve likely heard of “head tracking” with IK. If you haven’t, it’s a way to turn the players head around to face a target dynamically, without the need for canned animations. Well, think of Procedural Awareness (PA for short) as the “next-gen” version of head tracking. Since it is so early in the year, unfortunately I can’t show you any videos of it running in the game, but I can show some “tech demos” of sorts:



This is definitely pretty cool stuff…we can tune how fast the player switches between different targets, and then also how he behaves when he locks on and follows a target. You can already envision this being used by DB’s and WR’s when the ball is thrown, QB’s as they go through progressions, safeties as they drop in zone, and obviously many more cases. In terms of visual fidelity, PA is also a major step up from any other normal IK head tracking solution. We’re in the middle of some changes so I would rather not show you our player model’s face in the tool (his jaw is missing…it isn’t pretty ), but I can show a video of PA running in the tool with an NBA Live player model – Dwayne Wade. This shows off how the eyes track along with the head, the ability to dynamically “blink”, some really smooth blending between different targets, and even how the spine and shoulders can be “pulled” to follow the eyes/head as well:



There’s one last cool feature within PA, and that is a concept of “procedural attitudes”. An attitude is basically a collection of a bunch of different variables that alter the way a player “looks” while he is head tracking. So for the above videos, you basically saw just one attitude – “alert”. But PA allows you to not only just tweak how quickly he reacts and the amount of time it takes him to switch targets and such, but you can also toy with a big collection of variables for players to actually express emotion with their head and eye movement. A big problem in many sports games is making characters feel “alive” – and it applies to Madden often times as soon as the play is over. You don’t want to see a bunch of zombies walking around, but you also don’t want to spend months writing code and adding animations to make players act a little more lifelike (especially when there are so many features we need to attack to more realistically emulate football gameplay). Here’s where PA helps tremendously…it allows artists to create subtle emotional attitudes for players without the need of an engineer. Again there is ZERO canned animation at work here…it’s all totally dynamic and can be created by an animator adjusting a few sliders in the tool. Below is an example video of a few attitudes:



Alright, so what’s Procedural Awareness in a nutshell?
“The ability to procedurally manipulate the spine, neck, head, and eyes on a player in the game; and also add layers of emotion/attitudes on top of those manipulations”.

So the videos really just showcase the technology…not how we implement that technology in our game to actually change the way the game is played. My story above about getting picked off by a DB that can’t see the ball? Well now we can make a DB track the ball realistically and we’ll make sure that he has a true line of sight before he can make a play on the ball. And if/when he gets burned, he can dynamically look down and shake his head with zero new animations or engineering support.

A very exciting thing for our team while posting this is that we are not using PA’s full functionality in the game right now. We have the standard “alert” attitude hooked up for 1) DB’s and WR’s to track the ball, 2) defenders to track the ballcarrier, and 3) the ballcarrier to track threats. So I'm passing it off to you guys:

- Where else would you like to see PA active?
- Are there any new attitudes would you like to see?
- Do you have any suggestions on the best area you think we should actually use the attitudes that we’ve created?

We will follow up in a few months (once we’re actually showing videos of the game) and show what all we changed/added thanks to community feedback. I personally can’t wait!

Enjoy the rest of the Super Bowl!

- Ian Cummings
Lead Designer, Madden NFL 10

Game: Madden NFL 10Reader Score: 7.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 76 - View All
Madden NFL 10 Videos
Member Comments
# 181 Asp86 @ 02/02/09 11:50 PM
This game needs to play like a variation of Madden and 2k. 2k was the ****, but Madden also had areas where it was better. Bring the 2 together and weed out the flaws.
 
# 182 Ian_Cummings @ 02/02/09 11:56 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by vabeachboy19
Ian,
Im glad you posted this video. Please remove this catch animation from Madden! It is the most unrealistic catch animation. Like i said in my earlier post, the db / receiver should not be able to turn around in a full sprint and make a play on the ball. The db/receiver should have to 'throttle' down and GATHER his self before attempting a catch like this. And if someone did choose to attempt a catch like this it would result in him landing on his back from his momentum. (as a side note running backs in madden 09 use this catch on swing passes ALL THE TIME when in reality it should result in a nice smooth over the shoulder animation)
The ol' spin catch has been removed.

We're planning on one of our blog posts in a few weeks to just be all the animations that were removed / replaced. Should be a fun piece.
 
# 183 knucklez @ 02/03/09 12:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
The ol' spin catch has been removed.

We're planning on one of our blog posts in a few weeks to just be all the animations that were removed / replaced. Should be a fun piece.
So when are we looking at the next piece of news to chew on?

Edit: My earlier posts may not show it, but I am truly grateful and appreciative of your interaction with the Madden community.
 
# 184 Vikes1 @ 02/03/09 12:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA

We're planning on one of our blog posts in a few weeks to just be all the animations that were removed / replaced. Should be a fun piece.
I'll be really looking forward to that blog.

That one should get about 1,000,000 views.
 
# 185 RogueHominid @ 02/03/09 12:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
The ol' spin catch has been removed.

We're planning on one of our blog posts in a few weeks to just be all the animations that were removed / replaced. Should be a fun piece.
That's huge.
 
# 186 BigDuke @ 02/03/09 12:47 AM
It would be nice if pass interference would occasionally get called on a DB who doesn't turn his head to look at the ball while interfering with a receiver's ability to catch the pass.
 
# 187 monkeybutlerz @ 02/03/09 02:12 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
Sorry - I thought it answered it. We want to make it so a DB can't intercept a ball when he can't see it. Which to me means he can't make ridiculous interceptions. Sorry if we're getting hung up in the semantics. Like this...









...would no longer be able to happen, ya know?

I think the question at hand is as follows: In Madden 10, will that play look the exact same except with the difference that the CB's head will be turned? I know it must sound like you just explained it, but I guess what he's asking is will the players play the same with their heads moving or will their entire style change based on their eyes?

If you guys are able to implement it the way you describe it, it could be a subtle, albeit huge addition, not only in terms of atmosphere, but game play.
 
# 188 Hawaii_Stars @ 02/03/09 02:40 AM
Didn't read through every page of the thread, so sorry if this has been mentioned. Ian, will the DB's still be able to react to a pass play if they are clearly not looking at the ball, but they looked at the WR raise his arms up for the catch so the DB sticks his arms up as well, usually inbetween the WR arms to disrupt the play and at the same time maybe he turns his head to try to look at the ball?
 
# 189 quagga @ 02/03/09 06:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Hawaii_Stars
Ian, will the DB's still be able to react to a pass play if they are clearly not looking at the ball, but they looked at the WR raise his arms up for the catch so the DB sticks his arms up as well, usually inbetween the WR arms to disrupt the play and at the same time maybe he turns his head to try to look at the ball?
I thought that a DB sticking their hands inbetween those of the WR if the DB isn't looking at the ball is pass interference. Is that not the case?
 
# 190 jvaccaro @ 02/03/09 08:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
Sorry - I thought it answered it. We want to make it so a DB can't intercept a ball when he can't see it. Which to me means he can't make ridiculous interceptions. Sorry if we're getting hung up in the semantics.
This will work as long as there is a programmed 1-2 second delay (dependant on AWR) between when the head turns and the player starts the animation.
 
# 191 Exonerated @ 02/03/09 09:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sim God
Ian, this seems to be bordering a fine line here what youre saying and i dont understand FULLY.

i do like how a db cant make a play on what he cant say.....kudos.
big step there!

my main thing is when im playing a human opponent and we can see the entire field and he "clicks in" to manually control the db.....can HE(human controlled defender) then make plays by not turning around using the swat/int button?

as we all know you dont have to turn around to make a leap/swat at the ball as from our angles we see the entire field.

this is my one main concern because if this "new feature" ONLY applies to when the defender is ai controlled then its bogus.

some clarification would be greatly appreciated.
Why would this be bogus.

The ai will obviously not react to balls it cannot see.

But why remove user control? Stick skills are an important part of a game, and players should be rewarded as such.

maybe a 'look for the ball button' followed by a catch animation will suffice.

But players must be given an opportunity to make a play on the ball.

If you remove player the ability for a db to compete for the ball when its user controlled, your essentially removing all user control on pass defense.

What would be the point of stick skills/ and playing pass defense if your controlled player, is just playing like well, AI. People would just control d-linemen all day.


We want a game where a person can play as corner and be able to make plays on the ball because they are the user.
 
# 192 gabs485 @ 02/03/09 09:55 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA
Sorry - I thought it answered it. We want to make it so a DB can't intercept a ball when he can't see it. Which to me means he can't make ridiculous interceptions. Sorry if we're getting hung up in the semantics. Like this...









...would no longer be able to happen, ya know?
I guess that what he really wants to know is that if there is going to be a situation in which the DB or the defender for that matter won't be looking at the ball. I just don't want to see every defender looking at the ball while is in the air. Sometimes CB are in 1 on 1 coverage they just focus on the player an react depending on what he is doing.

For example in that play the defender is obviously beat, so he shouldn't even try to look back at the ball. heck even the receiver doesn't know where the ball is.
 
# 193 cdon2k @ 02/03/09 10:06 AM
I think this is being blown out of proportion, if this feature is tuned correctly, there will be no problem....

For example, lets take the example of an outside LB running out to cut off a pass to a WR on a button hook route... Some are worried that he won't be able to make the play because he is running towards the sideline and won't have his eyes on the ball. That is the whole point of this tech. As the LB runs, he will tilt their head slightly towards the qb so they will always have at least one eye on the ball, removing those no looke swat situations. So sure, he can still swat the ball, but I look forward to seeingn more players in this sort of situation run with their body paralell to the line instead of being stiff and just running to the sideline straight on.

Now I am interested in the next gen applications of this feature that Ian has discussed, but I think some people are forgetting that a lot of the wierd situations in 09 will not occur do to the fixes being made on player interaction (WR/DB) and whatnot. Think of it, if WR/DB interaction were correct in the first place, there would not have been the "no look" problem in the first place.

To summarize, I am very excited about the possibilities of of the combination of the two new technologies. I am pretty sure that '10 is going to be amazing
 
# 194 Exonerated @ 02/03/09 10:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Sim God
it IS bogus becaus i can just click in.....never actually turn around for the ball(unless they keep in the strafe button....lol) and swat it down with never looking back.

put yourself INSIDE the helmet of the defender = you dont see the ball coming, switch to HUMAN controlled db and you can manipulate seeing the ball coming due to our view of the game.

a solid answer from Ian would clarify this
This would remove some user catching and user picking as well. We are playing from a God's eye view. Not inside the helmet of the defender. Only the AI is limited by the DBs vision.

And the user controlled player, should be the best player on the field if the user is good.

I want complete control of my player. If we remove user picking and user catching with no Line of vision. Might as well let the cpu v cpu contest every other pass play.
 
# 195 cdon2k @ 02/03/09 10:59 AM
I hate this user stuff. It's cheese plain and simple. As has been said PLAY ZONE and keep everything in front of you. It just looks SO unnatural to see someone user a play and see the DB spin intercept a pass.

To the guy who said, "well without user it's cpu vs cpu basically", NO there is such a thing as play call strategy, game planning, and stick skills to move in the pocket and run after the catch...

quote the tournament player "LETS GO"
 
# 196 NYyankz225 @ 02/03/09 11:30 AM
I agree. Just because you're taking control of a corner doesn't mean all rules of momentum (and logic) go out the window. If you weren't in position to turn around and intercept the ball then you shouldn't intercept the ball...whether it's a CPU or USER is irrelevant.

That's like saying when I take control of a DLineman who's engaged with an OL I should be able to assist in pass coverage to cover the RB who just went out for a pass behind me at the drop of of hat....just because I take control. No. There are certain rules that must stay constant and we need to get rid of the belief that a USER can do anything. I agree it's important that USERS feel that they don't lose CONTROL when they switch to a player...but that doesn't mean allowing them to have superhuman abilities just because of that. Again, as a DL I can ATTEMPT to go back in pass coverage after being engaged (hence me still having "User control") but the PENALTY for that will be to get knocked on my butt. A USER can still attempt to go for an INT if he's out of position/not looking, but the PENALTY for that will be blown coverage.
 
# 197 MeanMrMustard @ 02/03/09 12:45 PM
this is awesome. By far the most frustrating thing about Madden is the ridiculous interceptions. I can't wait to see how this turns out.
 
# 198 bgizle @ 02/03/09 01:43 PM
First off, I think it's awesome that you take the time to answer questions like this and that you are wanting feedback from the gaming community.

I do have a quick question of my own. Playing online or against a friend, when I hike the ball, drop back, and look around, how does the opposing player know what receivers I'm looking at myself.?

I'm not sure if I worded that right, but I hope you know what I mean.

I looked through the 25 pages here and don't think I saw any sort of answer.

Thanks again!
 
# 199 texbuk84 @ 02/03/09 01:44 PM
we'l see. we'll see. look good to me.
 
# 200 cedwebb @ 02/03/09 02:24 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NYyankz225
I agree. Just because you're taking control of a corner doesn't mean all rules of momentum (and logic) go out the window. If you weren't in position to turn around and intercept the ball then you shouldn't intercept the ball...whether it's a CPU or USER is irrelevant.

That's like saying when I take control of a DLineman who's engaged with an OL I should be able to assist in pass coverage to cover the RB who just went out for a pass behind me at the drop of of hat....just because I take control. No. There are certain rules that must stay constant and we need to get rid of the belief that a USER can do anything. I agree it's important that USERS feel that they don't lose CONTROL when they switch to a player...but that doesn't mean allowing them to have superhuman abilities just because of that. Again, as a DL I can ATTEMPT to go back in pass coverage after being engaged (hence me still having "User control") but the PENALTY for that will be to get knocked on my butt. A USER can still attempt to go for an INT if he's out of position/not looking, but the PENALTY for that will be blown coverage.
Exactly...just cause you control a player doesn't mean that you can just do whatever you want, whenever you want. Remember just cause you see the whole field doesn't mean that the player you are controlling does. Thats the whole key right there. We see all but the players do not and thats how the game should play no matter who you are using IMO. If players are able to move and make incredible plays just cause the user can see whats coming it takes away from the actual abilities of the cyber player, and I think we all agree that we want the players abilities to show through more than anything. Stick skills are important but even the best stick skills should have trouble using a CB rated in the 70's or a QB for that matter. That player is just limited to what they can do..thats why they are rated as such. Thats what was so great about vision cone..it made you play to the cyber players abilities versus just mad stick skills, which is more sim based football.
 


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