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Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Like a lot of sports fans, I have spent time getting to know the “popular girl” of sports gaming, EA’s Madden 10.

What probably separates my experience from most is that, as someone who has yet to buy an EA football game this generation, I’m usually content with a rental of the latest Madden or NCAA Football. I'm usually content because a weekend of play tends to be enough time for me to realize that the game is still way behind my old flame, All-Pro Football 2K8, in the one area that matters most: gameplay.

This time around I spent more than one weekend with the game, but now that I have had some time to get a feel for the game, here are some reasons why I feel Madden 10 still can't match up to the standards set by my reigning king of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8.

Line Play


Some say football games are won and lost in the trenches, and if there’s one overwhelming complaint I have with Madden this year, it’s that the game’s outdated line play really killed a lot of my initial enjoyment with the game.

Pass Rush

It’s easy to see that, in spite of some slight improvements to the user-controlled side of the game, the same old "patty cake" animations are still in full effect for Madden 10 whenever you let two AI lines battle each other. This leads to a poor overall pass rush because defensive tackles can’t bull rush and collapse the middle of the pocket with any consistency, and defensive ends still can't get up the field quick enough to make opposing quarterbacks step up or out of the pocket.

Instead, what routinely plays out in Madden 10 is a situation where the QB has enough time to text his girlfriend before the pressure finally gets close enough to force a pass.

But what really pushes the Madden 10 pass rush into the realm of complete frustration for me is the way AI quarterbacks still have that sixth sense, which allows them to sling bullet passes at the exact moment defenders get a step or two away from getting the sack.

Madden 10's robo-QB problems are made even worse by the new ability to throw the ball while getting hit, which allows the AI quarterbacks to completely avoid sacks by passing the ball out at the last second, even if it's a wounded duck that should have been flagged as intentional grounding.

In my Titans franchise, for example, I was able to record a sack in only one my first six games, despite the fact that Tennessee possesses one of the best pass rushes in the NFL (fifth overall in sacks for the 2008 season).

In the game where I did get some sacks, I didn't really earn them either. I sacked NY Jets QB Mark Sanchez (five times on the day) -- not because my pass rushers were beating the offensive linemen -- but simply because Sanchez didn’t have a high enough awareness rating to blind-heave the ball out of trouble when his seven seconds (or more) of leisure time in the pocket were finally spent.

Roll the Footage

The infrequency of double-team blocks leads to all kinds of goofy linemen mishaps in Madde10, such as this play where Pro Bowl center Kevin Mawae actually takes a few steps up the field before realizing he needs to turn around and provide help to his beaten left guard, Eugene Amano. What should have been an easy six versus three blocking situation for the Titans ends up being a hurried pass and an incompletion -- all because double teams are a rarity in Madden 10 rather than the every-down occurrence that NFL fans see on Sundays.


Run Blocking

While it's great to see EA finally taking suction blocking out of Madden, the holes it exposes in the engine's blocking logic are massive, and at times, game-crushing.

The lack of suction blocking makes it easier than ever for Madden defenders to warp off their blocks whenever the ball carrier comes nearby -- they can then slide into position for an infamous "time-shift tackle."

In a truly bizarre move, the offensive linemen even help the defenders get off blocks in Madden 10 -- this is thanks to a new "push-out" animation that releases the engaged defender out wide, and often, right into the path of the lineman's own running back.

But as bad as the AI, warping and new push-out animations are on any given run play, what really makes running the ball a profanity-laden experience (even with a Titans offensive line rated in the 90s and 80s) is the way that the sprint button completely breaks down the blocking AI, often bringing linemen to a complete halt.

At times the sprint button in Madden 10 seems more like a way to activate some sort of special “seizure mode” where linemen completely lose track of their blocking assignments and often end up running away from obvious blocking targets who are only a few yards ahead of them.

Roll the Footage

Left tackle Michael Roos and fullback Ahmard Hall appear to be in great position to block Steelers outside linebacker James Harrison at the point of attack, only they run right by the OLB and go down the field and perform identical blocking animations on a pair of inconsequential Steelers standing near the back of the end zone.


Just how bad is the run blocking in Madden 10?

So bad that four guys cannot block one defender. So bad that three players cannot even block a guy that's lined up directly in front of them before the snap.

Passing Game


Route Running

The route running in Madden games has always been sketchy at best. The main problem is that simple fundamentals, such as decelerating into a cut and accelerating out of it, have always been absent from the game.

This year's game is no different because the players in Madden 10 still don't realistically go through their routes. Instead, wide receivers just sort of jog through routes at an even speed, with no real sense of weight or acceleration.

So basically while the new jostling animations between defensive backs and wide receivers are a welcome addition to the game, what good are they when the receiver has no real way to separate himself from a defensive back, outside of pure speed?

I think the reason why speed has always been the dominate attribute in Madden games is because players spend about 90 percent of each play running around at top speed with no need to ever cut or decelerate.

Until cutting, acceleration and deceleration become a major part of Madden's route-running system, the passing engine will always be inferior to what’s on display in 2K football games to me.

Catch Logic

There has already been a lot of talk about how successful screen and flat routes are in Madden 10, but one reason why they work so well is because players catch everything. This is unfortunate because, outside of that issue, the passing game is very enjoyable.

It doesn't seem to matter if the ball is coming to a halfback, fullback, defensive lineman or middle linebacker, if a pass finds its way into a player's hands, it seems like he will come down with the grab in Madden 10 more times than not.

The unrealistic catch logic makes it much harder to play defense against a good offensive player (since everyone on the field is a pass-catching weapon). But on the other side of the ball, it also leads to a lot of unrealistic interceptions that should just be dropped by stone-handed linebackers.

Roll the Footage

Zach Thomas, an inside linebacker known more for his tackling prowess than his pass coverage, appears to be trailing along behind tight end Tony Scheffler's crossing route, only to break off his coverage the instant quarterback Kyle Orton begins his throwing motion. The aging linebacker jumps high into the air to intercept an Orton bullet that was on its way down the field to receiver Brandon Marshall.

Defense


Tackling

While Pro-Tak has definitely improved the tackling system in Madden, the bulk of Madden 10's tackles still seem to boil down to two basic types:

1. An instant collision where the ball carrier is clipped below the waist, triggering a canned tripping animation.

2. The ball carrier gets stood up awkwardly while a "group hug" session breaks out on the field.

Neither of these situations feels particularly realistic, and the group hugging in particular brings out all sorts of issues -- mainly defenders warping onto what seem like “magnetic” piles.

More concerning than the pileups, though, are the tripping animations that result from ball carriers getting clipped below the waist. In Madden 10 ball carriers getting tripped often fall forward for an extra 3 or 4 yards that, momentum wise, they don't realistically deserve. I believe this happens because the tackling system in Madden is still too reliant upon canned animations that do not adhere to proper physics or locomotion.

The prevalence of these scripted tackles also means that, aside from the Pro-Tak group hugs, defenders can't really come in to deliver a second hit that pushes an engaged ball carrier backwards like they can in All-Pro Football 2K8. This seems to be because once a scripted tackle animation begins in Madden 10, it's impossible for another defender to touch the ball carrier and change whether he falls forwards or backwards.

Put simply, how can the defense be expected to "fight for every yard" in Madden 10 when the offense is routinely given free yards by so many of the game's scripted tackles?

If Madden wants to bring its tackling engine up to 2K's level, it needs to get away from the canned animations, and get some fresh physics coded into the game that will seriously consider weight and momentum before determining the impact of a tackler/ball-carrier collision.

Broken Tackles

I am not a fan of the "branching animations" system that EA has added to the last couple of football games because it just seems to be a bandage that is attempting to cover up the larger problems that plague the EA tackling engine (see the section above).

But the branching animations really hurt Madden 10 because running backs with high elusiveness ratings can break out of collisions they obviously should have lost based on weight and momentum.

Pro-Tak contributes to this problem, too, as it's a common occurrence for running backs to be brought to a near stop by two or three guys engaged in a "group hug" session, only to have the running back shake off the group of defenders and bolt out into the open field for a huge gain.

Roll the Footage

This highlight just catches the end of "finesse back" Knowshon Moreno powering through a group of three Chiefs defenders before scoring on a game-winning, 72-yard overtime touchdown run. Oddly enough, the Chiefs would have won this game in regulation on a last-second, 53-yard field goal from Ryan Succop had it not been called back on a phantom holding penalty.


Special Teams


Like a lot of Madden 10's problems, special teams is an area of the game that has been an issue dating back to the Genesis days of the franchise.

Ever since the move to the next-gen consoles and the adoption of right-stick kicking, field goals have been way too easy to make in EA football games. Madden 10 is no exception to the latest EA football trend, with kickers routinely bombing 50-yard cannon shots like they are extra points. The only problem you'll have with the kicking game in Madden 10 is the bizarre number of holding penalties that get called, which seem to be tied specifically to field goal attempts.

Kick returns have also been a major issue in recent EA football games, mostly because of the engine's speed issues (outlined in the route-running section of this article), as well as defenders tending to stand and play patty cake with blockers (which can also be felt in the game's poor pass rush). Simply get a return man with elite top speed in Madden 10 and watch as the touchdowns come rolling in. I say that because cause once the returner gets past the first wave of blockers, the chances of the him getting touched (or even having to make a cut), are extremely slim.

Roll the Footage

Speedy receiver Eddie Royal holds down the turbo button and runs untouched to the end zone for another easy kick-return TD.

 

Final Thoughts


While the general tone of this article is negative, I do want to stress that this is the first current-gen Madden I've had some actual fun with.

Problem is, while there usually is a fun moment that happens every couple of plays, Madden 10 is just too consistently frustrating in the areas that matter most. For that reason I still turn to All-Pro Football 2K8, a game where the "he did what?" moments are the exception, not the norm.

On the gameplay front, Madden 10 definitely takes a few steps forward (Pro-Tak, revamped passing game), but given the fact that it's still leaps and bounds behind All-Pro Football 2K8 in my mind when it comes to producing a consistently realistic on-field experience, it's going to take more than baby steps to regain the gameplay crown that the Madden series once held over Sega during the Genesis days.


Member Comments
# 81 Radja @ 09/13/09 11:59 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
While I agree, I'm really starting to get into Madden 10 despite some of the issues. I do need to test what I have against other opponents though (my boy sucks lol). I talked with MS and they assured me next week so I can't wait to get back into the swing of things. With a good patch the game will be that much more enjoyable. Tombsong bring your A game. Remember Saturday and Sunday mornins.
right now, that game needs to be patched for the single player. the dump off pass on the almost sacks is ridiculous. it is a teaser game right now. there are little things that are great and little things that are not great. it just kills the realism.

playing the raiders with the chargers, i "sacked" jamarcus about 5 times in the first half. only one of them was a sack. the others allowed them to keep the down and distance the same and allowed them to convert a couple third downs a lot easier. in the end, all i could think was why play this until it's patched?
 
# 82 RogueHominid @ 09/13/09 03:16 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radja
right now, that game needs to be patched for the single player. the dump off pass on the almost sacks is ridiculous. it is a teaser game right now. there are little things that are great and little things that are not great. it just kills the realism.

playing the raiders with the chargers, i "sacked" jamarcus about 5 times in the first half. only one of them was a sack. the others allowed them to keep the down and distance the same and allowed them to convert a couple third downs a lot easier. in the end, all i could think was why play this until it's patched?
Agreed about the user vs. CPU experience. The way the QB looks for the HB at the last second is ridiculously prescient.

If you play vs. HUM opponents, though, especially ones from here, it's quite a good experience. You should come on over and join the ACBQ M10 league .
 
# 83 elgreazy1 @ 09/14/09 09:20 AM
Here's something I've been doing with my offline franchise to make them more fun: Creating Legends ala APF. In Franchise mode, eventually everyone becomes a CAP or Generic player due to NFL players retiring, new rookies etc, so I began using past NFL players in place of high-rated draft picks.

After each draft I scroll through the Rookies and rename (and edit) any rookie with an 80+ OVR to the name of a past NFL player. For instance, the Chiefs drafted a speedy OLB so I renamed him from Generic Name to Dedrick Thomas, #58 & edited his equipment to either look like Derrick Thomas or to mimic what DT would look like in modern equipment.

I've done the same with a lot of players: Troy Aiken (Troy Aikman), Craig Lloyd (Greg Lloyd), Jake Smith (Jackie Smith), Kris Carter (Cris Carter), Gary Little (Larry Little), Rodney Lott (Ronnie Lott), Bryce Smith (Bruce Smith). This, to me, has taken the game to another level because now instead of facing no-name players, I'm facing a guy who I know how he plays & what to expect. So where I would play the Bears & know Urlacher was patrolling the middle, I also will face Demond Saunders on team X & know he's a ball-hawking, shut-down CB instead of wondering why Generic James at CB is such a beast.

Try it out, yeah, it takes a couple minutes to go through, find & edit said rookies but it make the game alot more fun. Years down into my various franchises it makes it fun to see said player atop the league leaders & such and actually recognizing the names.
 
# 84 LBzrule @ 09/14/09 03:32 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Radja
right now, that game needs to be patched for the single player. the dump off pass on the almost sacks is ridiculous. it is a teaser game right now. there are little things that are great and little things that are not great. it just kills the realism.

playing the raiders with the chargers, i "sacked" jamarcus about 5 times in the first half. only one of them was a sack. the others allowed them to keep the down and distance the same and allowed them to convert a couple third downs a lot easier. in the end, all i could think was why play this until it's patched?
Indeed it needs to be patched. But it's not just the QB's sixth sense that's the problem. The WR's should not be even aware he is throwing the ball. That's the thing that is irritating me. I can get pressure but this bastard slings it down the field to a WR who is not looking but he catches it anyway. WEAK!!
 
# 85 teambayern @ 09/17/09 01:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
Indeed it needs to be patched. But it's not just the QB's sixth sense that's the problem. The WR's should not be even aware he is throwing the ball. That's the thing that is irritating me. I can get pressure but this bastard slings it down the field to a WR who is not looking but he catches it anyway. WEAK!!
Same with the CB's. APF didn't do this particularly well either, but in Madden you can run something like a streak or double route, where the CB is hauling *** with his back turned just to catch up. Yet as you throw it, his spidey senses kick in and he immediately turns and pursues the ball instead of doing the desperate run-toward-the-wr-with-my-hands-up move we see all the time in Sundays. I think that's the main reason deep throws are so easily batted/intercepted: the DB's get a lot of time to move in front of it with none of the confusion that would normally come from guarding a man while keeping an eye on the qb directly behind you.
 
# 86 CreatineKasey @ 09/17/09 09:32 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by teambayern
Same with the CB's. APF didn't do this particularly well either, but in Madden you can run something like a streak or double route, where the CB is hauling *** with his back turned just to catch up. Yet as you throw it, his spidey senses kick in and he immediately turns and pursues the ball instead of doing the desperate run-toward-the-wr-with-my-hands-up move we see all the time in Sundays. I think that's the main reason deep throws are so easily batted/intercepted: the DB's get a lot of time to move in front of it with none of the confusion that would normally come from guarding a man while keeping an eye on the qb directly behind you.
I also think the ball trajectory and ball speeds are weird in Madden. In APF the balls felt authentic when thrown. They seemed to move is if people were throwing them, even the lobs. In M10 the lobs just look kinda silly to me, and seem to flutter in the air maybe more than a throw like that would in real life. Also, I have trouble effectively throwing a ball for your WR to run under. They love to give CB's a chance out there
 
# 87 slickdtc @ 09/17/09 11:13 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by CreatineKasey
I also think the ball trajectory and ball speeds are weird in Madden. In APF the balls felt authentic when thrown. They seemed to move is if people were throwing them, even the lobs. In M10 the lobs just look kinda silly to me, and seem to flutter in the air maybe more than a throw like that would in real life. Also, I have trouble effectively throwing a ball for your WR to run under. They love to give CB's a chance out there
Extremely noticeable to me. Maybe the people who only play the Madden series are used to it, but after playing APF2k8 and seeing the great trajectories, it's hard to even stand those ridiculous mile high throws. I hardly ever lob the ball, it doesn't seem to be worth it.
 
# 88 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/17/09 01:13 PM
There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil.

The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender.

Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.
 
# 89 RogueHominid @ 09/17/09 01:25 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31
There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil.

The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender.

Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.
This is the one throw type I haven't totally gotten yet either. I can throw every route in the game and enjoy the way it works so long as the matchups are right, but the vertical game is still stumping me a bit.

I've seen guys lob balls up to singled-up WR and TE and get some really nice completions, and I've gotten a few myself, but I haven't figured out when to release the ball in the route and with what kind of touch to get a reasonably consistent result.

I don't think deep passes should be easy, but I think I should be able to figure out how to wing it so that Jamarcus will put the ball out there to be run under. I feel like you have to know just when in the vertical route to do that. Too early and the QB will throw it like it's a super deep stop pattern, allowing the DB to make a play when he shouldn't be able to.

Tips on when's the right time to let 'er rip on those patterns?
 
# 90 ANDROMADA 1 @ 09/17/09 01:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31
There's one thing in Madden that absolutely burns my oil.

The worst throw you can make in Madden is the downfield, one on one throw to a reciever vs. a zone defender.

Logic would say, "throw this pass", but what you will see, is a LB, who is beat by a good 2-3 yards by a receiver, be able to bat the ball down, or the pass you throw, leading the reciever into the DB for a INT.
I see I am not the only one that noticed this....
 
# 91 ANDROMADA 1 @ 09/17/09 01:44 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by The Autumn Wind
This is the one throw type I haven't totally gotten yet either. I can throw every route in the game and enjoy the way it works so long as the matchups are right, but the vertical game is still stumping me a bit.

I've seen guys lob balls up to singled-up WR and TE and get some really nice completions, and I've gotten a few myself, but I haven't figured out when to release the ball in the route and with what kind of touch to get a reasonably consistent result.

I don't think deep passes should be easy, but I think I should be able to figure out how to wing it so that Jamarcus will put the ball out there to be run under. I feel like you have to know just when in the vertical route to do that. Too early and the QB will throw it like it's a super deep stop pattern, allowing the DB to make a play when he shouldn't be able to.

Tips on when's the right time to let 'er rip on those patterns?


We should set up thread to discuss this to make it more effective...I feel it is a league wide problem for most users.
 
# 92 RogueHominid @ 09/17/09 01:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDROMADA 1
[/b]

We should set up thread to discuss this to make it more effective...I feel it is a league wide problem for most users.
Yes, and lab it. I feel like there's a stem point in the route, before which you will throw a stop essentially, right into the coverage, and after which you will throw a proper go down the field, which then will depend on your QB deep accuracy as it should.
 
# 93 jyoung @ 09/17/09 02:31 PM
The only way to complete a deep ball in this game is to have your guy outrun the defender by enough steps that the defender can't do the superhuman "swat + tackle" animation on you and break up the play.

If you try to throw a jump ball, the CPU just uses its superhuman abilities to turn around and run to the exact spot on the field where they can jump up in the air and intercept the ball at its highest point.
 
# 94 Valdarez @ 09/17/09 03:24 PM
Madden's defense is completely unrealistic in the passing game. It's had instant turn of direction for their DBs forever, and the warping is has historically been horrible (can't speak for 10 yet). They still haven't fixed the instant direction change in Madden 10 this year, they just changed the animation. DBs still run full speed one direction and now do a little circle loop (instead of just siwtching direction) and are going full speed again. It's completely unrealistic. I think Madden's momentum, speed, attribute system is so messed up they won't ever be able to make it truly sim/authentic with the current engine.
 
# 95 Valdarez @ 09/17/09 03:26 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wEEman33
The only way to complete a deep ball in this game is to have your guy outrun the defender by enough steps that the defender can't do the superhuman "swat + tackle" animation on you and break up the play.

If you try to throw a jump ball, the CPU just uses its superhuman abilities to turn around and run to the exact spot on the field where they can jump up in the air and intercept the ball at its highest point.
If you manually catch it, does that help at all? Or does the swat always negate the manual catch? I hardly ever throw streaks, unless in a hail mary / losing scenario where I'm forced to do it.
 
# 96 jyoung @ 09/17/09 04:25 PM
There must be a trick or something to the manual catching 'cause I'm horrible at it in Madden.

Everytime I press the catch button, my guy just does the stupid "over the shoulder catch" animation.
 
# 97 CreatineKasey @ 09/17/09 04:41 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wEEman33
There must be a trick or something to the manual catching 'cause I'm horrible at it in Madden.

Everytime I press the catch button, my guy just does the stupid "over the shoulder catch" animation.
Well... I know there's 2 ways to catch it. You can press and hold Y for the safe catch (maybe what you are doing) and you can tap Y to go for the spectacular, or more aggressive catch.

I've spent some time in the lab, and I have yet to see zone defenses really worked by a deep 25+ yard throw.
 
# 98 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/17/09 05:15 PM
Manual catching helps with the downfield throws.

Minh does this, and he is usually able to pull down 1 a game..if he can get into position.

I understand why they did it: They wanted to negate the rocket catch, strafe catch exploit of the past, but ended up actually punishing people who do not force the ball, by making one on one throws, a roll of the dice.

Casey and I played a game last night, with a total of 6 interceptions. Only 2, were a result of a stupid throw.
 


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