Home
Feature Article
Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Like a lot of sports fans, I have spent time getting to know the “popular girl” of sports gaming, EA’s Madden 10.

What probably separates my experience from most is that, as someone who has yet to buy an EA football game this generation, I’m usually content with a rental of the latest Madden or NCAA Football. I'm usually content because a weekend of play tends to be enough time for me to realize that the game is still way behind my old flame, All-Pro Football 2K8, in the one area that matters most: gameplay.

This time around I spent more than one weekend with the game, but now that I have had some time to get a feel for the game, here are some reasons why I feel Madden 10 still can't match up to the standards set by my reigning king of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8.

Line Play


Some say football games are won and lost in the trenches, and if there’s one overwhelming complaint I have with Madden this year, it’s that the game’s outdated line play really killed a lot of my initial enjoyment with the game.

Pass Rush

It’s easy to see that, in spite of some slight improvements to the user-controlled side of the game, the same old "patty cake" animations are still in full effect for Madden 10 whenever you let two AI lines battle each other. This leads to a poor overall pass rush because defensive tackles can’t bull rush and collapse the middle of the pocket with any consistency, and defensive ends still can't get up the field quick enough to make opposing quarterbacks step up or out of the pocket.

Instead, what routinely plays out in Madden 10 is a situation where the QB has enough time to text his girlfriend before the pressure finally gets close enough to force a pass.

But what really pushes the Madden 10 pass rush into the realm of complete frustration for me is the way AI quarterbacks still have that sixth sense, which allows them to sling bullet passes at the exact moment defenders get a step or two away from getting the sack.

Madden 10's robo-QB problems are made even worse by the new ability to throw the ball while getting hit, which allows the AI quarterbacks to completely avoid sacks by passing the ball out at the last second, even if it's a wounded duck that should have been flagged as intentional grounding.

In my Titans franchise, for example, I was able to record a sack in only one my first six games, despite the fact that Tennessee possesses one of the best pass rushes in the NFL (fifth overall in sacks for the 2008 season).

In the game where I did get some sacks, I didn't really earn them either. I sacked NY Jets QB Mark Sanchez (five times on the day) -- not because my pass rushers were beating the offensive linemen -- but simply because Sanchez didn’t have a high enough awareness rating to blind-heave the ball out of trouble when his seven seconds (or more) of leisure time in the pocket were finally spent.

Roll the Footage

The infrequency of double-team blocks leads to all kinds of goofy linemen mishaps in Madde10, such as this play where Pro Bowl center Kevin Mawae actually takes a few steps up the field before realizing he needs to turn around and provide help to his beaten left guard, Eugene Amano. What should have been an easy six versus three blocking situation for the Titans ends up being a hurried pass and an incompletion -- all because double teams are a rarity in Madden 10 rather than the every-down occurrence that NFL fans see on Sundays.


Run Blocking

While it's great to see EA finally taking suction blocking out of Madden, the holes it exposes in the engine's blocking logic are massive, and at times, game-crushing.

The lack of suction blocking makes it easier than ever for Madden defenders to warp off their blocks whenever the ball carrier comes nearby -- they can then slide into position for an infamous "time-shift tackle."

In a truly bizarre move, the offensive linemen even help the defenders get off blocks in Madden 10 -- this is thanks to a new "push-out" animation that releases the engaged defender out wide, and often, right into the path of the lineman's own running back.

But as bad as the AI, warping and new push-out animations are on any given run play, what really makes running the ball a profanity-laden experience (even with a Titans offensive line rated in the 90s and 80s) is the way that the sprint button completely breaks down the blocking AI, often bringing linemen to a complete halt.

At times the sprint button in Madden 10 seems more like a way to activate some sort of special “seizure mode” where linemen completely lose track of their blocking assignments and often end up running away from obvious blocking targets who are only a few yards ahead of them.

Roll the Footage

Left tackle Michael Roos and fullback Ahmard Hall appear to be in great position to block Steelers outside linebacker James Harrison at the point of attack, only they run right by the OLB and go down the field and perform identical blocking animations on a pair of inconsequential Steelers standing near the back of the end zone.


Just how bad is the run blocking in Madden 10?

So bad that four guys cannot block one defender. So bad that three players cannot even block a guy that's lined up directly in front of them before the snap.

Passing Game


Route Running

The route running in Madden games has always been sketchy at best. The main problem is that simple fundamentals, such as decelerating into a cut and accelerating out of it, have always been absent from the game.

This year's game is no different because the players in Madden 10 still don't realistically go through their routes. Instead, wide receivers just sort of jog through routes at an even speed, with no real sense of weight or acceleration.

So basically while the new jostling animations between defensive backs and wide receivers are a welcome addition to the game, what good are they when the receiver has no real way to separate himself from a defensive back, outside of pure speed?

I think the reason why speed has always been the dominate attribute in Madden games is because players spend about 90 percent of each play running around at top speed with no need to ever cut or decelerate.

Until cutting, acceleration and deceleration become a major part of Madden's route-running system, the passing engine will always be inferior to what’s on display in 2K football games to me.

Catch Logic

There has already been a lot of talk about how successful screen and flat routes are in Madden 10, but one reason why they work so well is because players catch everything. This is unfortunate because, outside of that issue, the passing game is very enjoyable.

It doesn't seem to matter if the ball is coming to a halfback, fullback, defensive lineman or middle linebacker, if a pass finds its way into a player's hands, it seems like he will come down with the grab in Madden 10 more times than not.

The unrealistic catch logic makes it much harder to play defense against a good offensive player (since everyone on the field is a pass-catching weapon). But on the other side of the ball, it also leads to a lot of unrealistic interceptions that should just be dropped by stone-handed linebackers.

Roll the Footage

Zach Thomas, an inside linebacker known more for his tackling prowess than his pass coverage, appears to be trailing along behind tight end Tony Scheffler's crossing route, only to break off his coverage the instant quarterback Kyle Orton begins his throwing motion. The aging linebacker jumps high into the air to intercept an Orton bullet that was on its way down the field to receiver Brandon Marshall.

Defense


Tackling

While Pro-Tak has definitely improved the tackling system in Madden, the bulk of Madden 10's tackles still seem to boil down to two basic types:

1. An instant collision where the ball carrier is clipped below the waist, triggering a canned tripping animation.

2. The ball carrier gets stood up awkwardly while a "group hug" session breaks out on the field.

Neither of these situations feels particularly realistic, and the group hugging in particular brings out all sorts of issues -- mainly defenders warping onto what seem like “magnetic” piles.

More concerning than the pileups, though, are the tripping animations that result from ball carriers getting clipped below the waist. In Madden 10 ball carriers getting tripped often fall forward for an extra 3 or 4 yards that, momentum wise, they don't realistically deserve. I believe this happens because the tackling system in Madden is still too reliant upon canned animations that do not adhere to proper physics or locomotion.

The prevalence of these scripted tackles also means that, aside from the Pro-Tak group hugs, defenders can't really come in to deliver a second hit that pushes an engaged ball carrier backwards like they can in All-Pro Football 2K8. This seems to be because once a scripted tackle animation begins in Madden 10, it's impossible for another defender to touch the ball carrier and change whether he falls forwards or backwards.

Put simply, how can the defense be expected to "fight for every yard" in Madden 10 when the offense is routinely given free yards by so many of the game's scripted tackles?

If Madden wants to bring its tackling engine up to 2K's level, it needs to get away from the canned animations, and get some fresh physics coded into the game that will seriously consider weight and momentum before determining the impact of a tackler/ball-carrier collision.

Broken Tackles

I am not a fan of the "branching animations" system that EA has added to the last couple of football games because it just seems to be a bandage that is attempting to cover up the larger problems that plague the EA tackling engine (see the section above).

But the branching animations really hurt Madden 10 because running backs with high elusiveness ratings can break out of collisions they obviously should have lost based on weight and momentum.

Pro-Tak contributes to this problem, too, as it's a common occurrence for running backs to be brought to a near stop by two or three guys engaged in a "group hug" session, only to have the running back shake off the group of defenders and bolt out into the open field for a huge gain.

Roll the Footage

This highlight just catches the end of "finesse back" Knowshon Moreno powering through a group of three Chiefs defenders before scoring on a game-winning, 72-yard overtime touchdown run. Oddly enough, the Chiefs would have won this game in regulation on a last-second, 53-yard field goal from Ryan Succop had it not been called back on a phantom holding penalty.


Special Teams


Like a lot of Madden 10's problems, special teams is an area of the game that has been an issue dating back to the Genesis days of the franchise.

Ever since the move to the next-gen consoles and the adoption of right-stick kicking, field goals have been way too easy to make in EA football games. Madden 10 is no exception to the latest EA football trend, with kickers routinely bombing 50-yard cannon shots like they are extra points. The only problem you'll have with the kicking game in Madden 10 is the bizarre number of holding penalties that get called, which seem to be tied specifically to field goal attempts.

Kick returns have also been a major issue in recent EA football games, mostly because of the engine's speed issues (outlined in the route-running section of this article), as well as defenders tending to stand and play patty cake with blockers (which can also be felt in the game's poor pass rush). Simply get a return man with elite top speed in Madden 10 and watch as the touchdowns come rolling in. I say that because cause once the returner gets past the first wave of blockers, the chances of the him getting touched (or even having to make a cut), are extremely slim.

Roll the Footage

Speedy receiver Eddie Royal holds down the turbo button and runs untouched to the end zone for another easy kick-return TD.

 

Final Thoughts


While the general tone of this article is negative, I do want to stress that this is the first current-gen Madden I've had some actual fun with.

Problem is, while there usually is a fun moment that happens every couple of plays, Madden 10 is just too consistently frustrating in the areas that matter most. For that reason I still turn to All-Pro Football 2K8, a game where the "he did what?" moments are the exception, not the norm.

On the gameplay front, Madden 10 definitely takes a few steps forward (Pro-Tak, revamped passing game), but given the fact that it's still leaps and bounds behind All-Pro Football 2K8 in my mind when it comes to producing a consistently realistic on-field experience, it's going to take more than baby steps to regain the gameplay crown that the Madden series once held over Sega during the Genesis days.


Member Comments
# 61 texbuk84 @ 09/09/09 05:20 PM
like brett said " The best there is the best there was and the best their ever will be".
 
# 62 Only1LT @ 09/09/09 05:37 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by lasthour
Hey LB could 2k release 2k5 on xbox live, in high defintion. And maybe with some sort of patched updated version also?
Sounds great, but it will never happen lol.
 
# 63 jyoung @ 09/09/09 06:04 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Only1LT
As for the OP, again, good post, but one thin I must say as a negative though are your vidz. They are way too short, start sometimes too late to capture the essence of what you are pointing out, and should have been shown at regular and then slow-mo to get the point across better. I had to rewind them about 5 times each to really see what was wrong in the vid. The other vidz by other people that you linked to were good though.
I think this is more of a problem with the Madden replay system.

The replays in the game can only store a small amount of data, so a lot of times, important parts from the beginning of a play get cut off due to its length.

Maybe they made it that way so you'd have less of a chance of seeing some of the ludicrous things that happen on a typical TD run.

Here's a better example of the way the game's elusiveness rating governs broken tackles instead of weight, physics and momentum:

Quote:
Originally Posted by bigdgp2
I have seen similar things done by other finesse backs like Moreno, Sproles, McFadden, et al. who aren't that big and strong but happen to have high elusiveness ratings.

The Moreno run in the OP was probably similar to this but all you got was the tail-end of him breaking through the last gang tackle and getting into the open field.
 
# 64 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/09/09 07:35 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by grunt
So, you have one gold and I believe 3 silvers on your defense. You should have a dominant defense. I love safeties because they are hybrid players that can play in and out of the box. Now, you have a strong defense and a weaker offense . Sound pretty balance to me.

So, you never lost a game with this team?
I never used any of the dime and nickle defenses as a base D in APF but played against good players who used those set ups, and it is very very effective.


I loved playing APF just as much as the next person here.

My favorite part of the game was the drop back passing, but I honestly cannot possibly see myself going back to playing that game regularly, other then for an occasional lobby match cameo.

I havent felt one single impulse to play that game for about 8 weeks.

There are a ton of flaws in that game, and I'm really stunned that everyone in this thread are flat ignoring them.

For every shortcoming that you can make about Madden's blocking, you can do the same for APF in a whole array of scenarios.

People want to rave about APF's route running, yet ignore that a career possession receiver like Dwight Clark, plays like Randy Moss.

People seem to want to ignore the various animations that casue DBs to freeze, or take pass defenders straight out of plays, or balls morphing through defenders because a reciever or QB has some magical intagibles attribute like clutch, or mr. 3rd down.

I know I'm not the only one, who remembers how defending the run in man coverage consistantly, was an adventure, since your LBs were prone to just stand around and let blockers slam into them, and that defenders ran right to the man they were "assigned" to, rather then diagnose the play and attack the LOS.

I just dont get it. APF was a "good" game, that was basically thrown together.

The fact that it lasted as long as it did had as much to do with a lack of an alternative to play that made any sense, as anything else.

This year, that changed..and to me, both NCAA and Madden are just overall better games
 
# 65 bluewave @ 09/09/09 10:28 PM
Well written article and an enjoyable read. You brought up excellent points.
 
# 66 slickdtc @ 09/09/09 11:54 PM
If you played Madden 10 and All Pro Football 2k8, you would know which one plays more like professional football. Madden 10 may have the players, teams, and stadiums, but that's about where the realism of football ends. The feel, look, excitement you get from playing All Pro Football 2k8 is all I need to know which game is superior.

I don't see how you can claim Madden 10 as a better game after playing one full game. The same issues that plagued the series the last time I bought a Madden game (Madden 06 for XBOX) are still there; terrible blocking, warping, CPU QB's getting hours in the pocket, etc. It's all still there. I really wonder if the leap from the old gen to this gen is more then just a visual upgrade because it doesn't seem like it.
 
# 67 slickdtc @ 09/10/09 12:04 AM
The only thing holding APF2k8 back is the lack of a franchise mode and the lack of roster sharing online. Despite this, I really do enjoy the different perspective the game brings; playing with the legends brings me back to the days of Tecmo Super Bowl. Heck, I like seeing all the unique uniforms, team makeups, and stadiums. And I'm having a blast mixing and matching my team, fiddling with all the uniform options, and of course, the gameplay on the field is the defining mark of APF2k8.

They should've added roster sharing and franchise mode to keep the short attention span people entertained, but for the (now) bargain price of $5, I feel like I more then got my money's worth. For the $60 that Madden 10 costs, I feel like I got an upgraded roster, presentation, feature, and visual set while the product on the field remains the same as it was when the NFL exclusivity deal began.

Just having this discussion is all you need to know when analyzing how damaging the NFL deal has been on customer satisfaction.
 
# 68 snugglyirishman @ 09/10/09 01:05 AM
I agree wholeheartedly about the Run blocking section....it is perhaps the most frustrating thing about the game. While my "superstar" has had some success (racking up 1,080 yards as a rook), there are times where the blockers go right past the guy and leave me out to dry. I thought the battles at the line were something that madden was suppose to fix and that the blocking was suppose to be the most realistic yet....what happened?
 
# 69 snugglyirishman @ 09/10/09 01:06 AM
I agree wholeheartedly about the Run blocking section....it is perhaps the most frustrating thing about the game. While my "superstar" has had some success (racking up 1,080 yards as a rook), there are times where the blockers go right past the guy and leave me out to dry. I thought the battles at the line were something that madden was suppose to fix and that the blocking was suppose to be the most realistic yet....what happened?
 
# 70 Valdarez @ 09/10/09 01:34 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by slickdtc
The only thing holding APF2k8 back is the lack of a franchise mode and the lack of roster sharing online.
You can share rosters, as long as you have a way to get them to a card or your hard drive.

How to Transfer Rosters - http://www.2kfootballstrategy.com/mo...ansfer_Rosters

Rosters Available for Download - http://www.2kfootballstrategy.com/mo...download&cid=5
 
# 71 heat3me @ 09/10/09 07:00 AM
oh yea....so glad sumone else can see how HORRIBLE the blocking is on madden. the game tester need to get their asses beat for lettin every point u made get put into the. little dumb things make madden stupid. idk anout that all pro football stuff tho. madden would b perfect if they could fix everything u stated in this article
 
# 72 Suave35 @ 09/10/09 09:47 AM
EA gets money every year, the same the same way Jordans sneakers does.The name.Because they been out so long people just trust the name,not the product.Because all the Jordans,didn't look good,but because of the name,they sold.The same with madden,and Live also.Not to mention Madden is the oniy NFL game out! I love 2Ks sports games,the gameplay just feels more real.I just would like for 2K to make another football game,because they Just have a feel for true gameplay,simulation,and player physics.Truley the 2K developers are gifted.Please 2K save us from this Madden curse!
 
# 73 yamabushi @ 09/10/09 09:50 AM
Spank had it right a couple of pages ago: The fact that M10 is bested in areas of gameplay by a 2 and a 5 yr old game is pathetic.
 
# 74 Suave35 @ 09/10/09 09:53 AM
Thank you for shedding this light,i've felt this way for years!
 
# 75 jvaccaro @ 09/10/09 10:10 AM
This article clearly defines a good majority of the flaws in Madden. I'm actually very happy with Madden 10, despite it's issues. IMO, this artilce shouldn't references all-pro football, since that game has issues too, and rather focus it as an effort to help EA's approach.

I hope the EA dev team takes notice of this and prioritizes their needs going forward. Another bug not listed here is the lack of sideline awareness by offensive players. Fix these up, and it will be the best playing NFL game ever.
 
# 76 Suave35 @ 09/10/09 10:13 AM
And to all the Madden Fanboys,replay all Madden Plays,look at them in slow motion,and look at the player mechanics.they just don't move like real people,from the physics,especially when players change directions.Look also at the QB throwing motions(in slow Motion)Look at the QB realease,then Compare to any 2K game.
 
# 77 Only1LT @ 09/10/09 02:54 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by wEEman33
I think this is more of a problem with the Madden replay system.

The replays in the game can only store a small amount of data, so a lot of times, important parts from the beginning of a play get cut off due to its length.

Maybe they made it that way so you'd have less of a chance of seeing some of the ludicrous things that happen on a typical TD run.

Here's a better example of the way the game's elusiveness rating governs broken tackles instead of weight, physics and momentum:



I have seen similar things done by other finesse backs like Moreno, Sproles, McFadden, et al. who aren't that big and strong but happen to have high elusiveness ratings.

The Moreno run in the OP was probably similar to this but all you got was the tail-end of him breaking through the last gang tackle and getting into the open field.
LOL. I understand about the replay cutting plays in half. What I was saying is that the plays needed to be shown more than once on each vid, and in slow-mo in particular.

That last vid was funny. Almost every defender that missed the tackle did the exact same animation. I thought I was having deja vu lol.
 
# 78 walliworld @ 09/10/09 04:09 PM
I agree, Madden will never compare with All Pro or 2K5. BUT, unfortuntately, 2K has not made a game and I like the NFL. So I'm forced to settle for the mediocore that is Madden 10.

I will pray that 2K makes another game SOON!!!
 
# 79 LBzrule @ 09/10/09 05:41 PM
While I agree, I'm really starting to get into Madden 10 despite some of the issues. I do need to test what I have against other opponents though (my boy sucks lol). I talked with MS and they assured me next week so I can't wait to get back into the swing of things. With a good patch the game will be that much more enjoyable. Tombsong bring your A game. Remember Saturday and Sunday mornins.
 
# 80 TombSong @ 09/13/09 10:23 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by LBzrule
While I agree, I'm really starting to get into Madden 10 despite some of the issues. I do need to test what I have against other opponents though (my boy sucks lol). I talked with MS and they assured me next week so I can't wait to get back into the swing of things. With a good patch the game will be that much more enjoyable. Tombsong bring your A game. Remember Saturday and Sunday mornins.
Man, those Sat and Sun were like weekend school for me, LOL.

Looking forward to that again. The guys in the APF league are decent guys also. We are all gonna have big fun as soon as they get some of the issues ironed out in Madden.
 


Post A Comment
Only OS members can post comments
Please login or register to post a comment.