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Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Like a lot of sports fans, I have spent time getting to know the “popular girl” of sports gaming, EA’s Madden 10.

What probably separates my experience from most is that, as someone who has yet to buy an EA football game this generation, I’m usually content with a rental of the latest Madden or NCAA Football. I'm usually content because a weekend of play tends to be enough time for me to realize that the game is still way behind my old flame, All-Pro Football 2K8, in the one area that matters most: gameplay.

This time around I spent more than one weekend with the game, but now that I have had some time to get a feel for the game, here are some reasons why I feel Madden 10 still can't match up to the standards set by my reigning king of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8.

Line Play


Some say football games are won and lost in the trenches, and if there’s one overwhelming complaint I have with Madden this year, it’s that the game’s outdated line play really killed a lot of my initial enjoyment with the game.

Pass Rush

It’s easy to see that, in spite of some slight improvements to the user-controlled side of the game, the same old "patty cake" animations are still in full effect for Madden 10 whenever you let two AI lines battle each other. This leads to a poor overall pass rush because defensive tackles can’t bull rush and collapse the middle of the pocket with any consistency, and defensive ends still can't get up the field quick enough to make opposing quarterbacks step up or out of the pocket.

Instead, what routinely plays out in Madden 10 is a situation where the QB has enough time to text his girlfriend before the pressure finally gets close enough to force a pass.

But what really pushes the Madden 10 pass rush into the realm of complete frustration for me is the way AI quarterbacks still have that sixth sense, which allows them to sling bullet passes at the exact moment defenders get a step or two away from getting the sack.

Madden 10's robo-QB problems are made even worse by the new ability to throw the ball while getting hit, which allows the AI quarterbacks to completely avoid sacks by passing the ball out at the last second, even if it's a wounded duck that should have been flagged as intentional grounding.

In my Titans franchise, for example, I was able to record a sack in only one my first six games, despite the fact that Tennessee possesses one of the best pass rushes in the NFL (fifth overall in sacks for the 2008 season).

In the game where I did get some sacks, I didn't really earn them either. I sacked NY Jets QB Mark Sanchez (five times on the day) -- not because my pass rushers were beating the offensive linemen -- but simply because Sanchez didn’t have a high enough awareness rating to blind-heave the ball out of trouble when his seven seconds (or more) of leisure time in the pocket were finally spent.

Roll the Footage

The infrequency of double-team blocks leads to all kinds of goofy linemen mishaps in Madde10, such as this play where Pro Bowl center Kevin Mawae actually takes a few steps up the field before realizing he needs to turn around and provide help to his beaten left guard, Eugene Amano. What should have been an easy six versus three blocking situation for the Titans ends up being a hurried pass and an incompletion -- all because double teams are a rarity in Madden 10 rather than the every-down occurrence that NFL fans see on Sundays.


Run Blocking

While it's great to see EA finally taking suction blocking out of Madden, the holes it exposes in the engine's blocking logic are massive, and at times, game-crushing.

The lack of suction blocking makes it easier than ever for Madden defenders to warp off their blocks whenever the ball carrier comes nearby -- they can then slide into position for an infamous "time-shift tackle."

In a truly bizarre move, the offensive linemen even help the defenders get off blocks in Madden 10 -- this is thanks to a new "push-out" animation that releases the engaged defender out wide, and often, right into the path of the lineman's own running back.

But as bad as the AI, warping and new push-out animations are on any given run play, what really makes running the ball a profanity-laden experience (even with a Titans offensive line rated in the 90s and 80s) is the way that the sprint button completely breaks down the blocking AI, often bringing linemen to a complete halt.

At times the sprint button in Madden 10 seems more like a way to activate some sort of special “seizure mode” where linemen completely lose track of their blocking assignments and often end up running away from obvious blocking targets who are only a few yards ahead of them.

Roll the Footage

Left tackle Michael Roos and fullback Ahmard Hall appear to be in great position to block Steelers outside linebacker James Harrison at the point of attack, only they run right by the OLB and go down the field and perform identical blocking animations on a pair of inconsequential Steelers standing near the back of the end zone.


Just how bad is the run blocking in Madden 10?

So bad that four guys cannot block one defender. So bad that three players cannot even block a guy that's lined up directly in front of them before the snap.

Passing Game


Route Running

The route running in Madden games has always been sketchy at best. The main problem is that simple fundamentals, such as decelerating into a cut and accelerating out of it, have always been absent from the game.

This year's game is no different because the players in Madden 10 still don't realistically go through their routes. Instead, wide receivers just sort of jog through routes at an even speed, with no real sense of weight or acceleration.

So basically while the new jostling animations between defensive backs and wide receivers are a welcome addition to the game, what good are they when the receiver has no real way to separate himself from a defensive back, outside of pure speed?

I think the reason why speed has always been the dominate attribute in Madden games is because players spend about 90 percent of each play running around at top speed with no need to ever cut or decelerate.

Until cutting, acceleration and deceleration become a major part of Madden's route-running system, the passing engine will always be inferior to what’s on display in 2K football games to me.

Catch Logic

There has already been a lot of talk about how successful screen and flat routes are in Madden 10, but one reason why they work so well is because players catch everything. This is unfortunate because, outside of that issue, the passing game is very enjoyable.

It doesn't seem to matter if the ball is coming to a halfback, fullback, defensive lineman or middle linebacker, if a pass finds its way into a player's hands, it seems like he will come down with the grab in Madden 10 more times than not.

The unrealistic catch logic makes it much harder to play defense against a good offensive player (since everyone on the field is a pass-catching weapon). But on the other side of the ball, it also leads to a lot of unrealistic interceptions that should just be dropped by stone-handed linebackers.

Roll the Footage

Zach Thomas, an inside linebacker known more for his tackling prowess than his pass coverage, appears to be trailing along behind tight end Tony Scheffler's crossing route, only to break off his coverage the instant quarterback Kyle Orton begins his throwing motion. The aging linebacker jumps high into the air to intercept an Orton bullet that was on its way down the field to receiver Brandon Marshall.

Defense


Tackling

While Pro-Tak has definitely improved the tackling system in Madden, the bulk of Madden 10's tackles still seem to boil down to two basic types:

1. An instant collision where the ball carrier is clipped below the waist, triggering a canned tripping animation.

2. The ball carrier gets stood up awkwardly while a "group hug" session breaks out on the field.

Neither of these situations feels particularly realistic, and the group hugging in particular brings out all sorts of issues -- mainly defenders warping onto what seem like “magnetic” piles.

More concerning than the pileups, though, are the tripping animations that result from ball carriers getting clipped below the waist. In Madden 10 ball carriers getting tripped often fall forward for an extra 3 or 4 yards that, momentum wise, they don't realistically deserve. I believe this happens because the tackling system in Madden is still too reliant upon canned animations that do not adhere to proper physics or locomotion.

The prevalence of these scripted tackles also means that, aside from the Pro-Tak group hugs, defenders can't really come in to deliver a second hit that pushes an engaged ball carrier backwards like they can in All-Pro Football 2K8. This seems to be because once a scripted tackle animation begins in Madden 10, it's impossible for another defender to touch the ball carrier and change whether he falls forwards or backwards.

Put simply, how can the defense be expected to "fight for every yard" in Madden 10 when the offense is routinely given free yards by so many of the game's scripted tackles?

If Madden wants to bring its tackling engine up to 2K's level, it needs to get away from the canned animations, and get some fresh physics coded into the game that will seriously consider weight and momentum before determining the impact of a tackler/ball-carrier collision.

Broken Tackles

I am not a fan of the "branching animations" system that EA has added to the last couple of football games because it just seems to be a bandage that is attempting to cover up the larger problems that plague the EA tackling engine (see the section above).

But the branching animations really hurt Madden 10 because running backs with high elusiveness ratings can break out of collisions they obviously should have lost based on weight and momentum.

Pro-Tak contributes to this problem, too, as it's a common occurrence for running backs to be brought to a near stop by two or three guys engaged in a "group hug" session, only to have the running back shake off the group of defenders and bolt out into the open field for a huge gain.

Roll the Footage

This highlight just catches the end of "finesse back" Knowshon Moreno powering through a group of three Chiefs defenders before scoring on a game-winning, 72-yard overtime touchdown run. Oddly enough, the Chiefs would have won this game in regulation on a last-second, 53-yard field goal from Ryan Succop had it not been called back on a phantom holding penalty.


Special Teams


Like a lot of Madden 10's problems, special teams is an area of the game that has been an issue dating back to the Genesis days of the franchise.

Ever since the move to the next-gen consoles and the adoption of right-stick kicking, field goals have been way too easy to make in EA football games. Madden 10 is no exception to the latest EA football trend, with kickers routinely bombing 50-yard cannon shots like they are extra points. The only problem you'll have with the kicking game in Madden 10 is the bizarre number of holding penalties that get called, which seem to be tied specifically to field goal attempts.

Kick returns have also been a major issue in recent EA football games, mostly because of the engine's speed issues (outlined in the route-running section of this article), as well as defenders tending to stand and play patty cake with blockers (which can also be felt in the game's poor pass rush). Simply get a return man with elite top speed in Madden 10 and watch as the touchdowns come rolling in. I say that because cause once the returner gets past the first wave of blockers, the chances of the him getting touched (or even having to make a cut), are extremely slim.

Roll the Footage

Speedy receiver Eddie Royal holds down the turbo button and runs untouched to the end zone for another easy kick-return TD.

 

Final Thoughts


While the general tone of this article is negative, I do want to stress that this is the first current-gen Madden I've had some actual fun with.

Problem is, while there usually is a fun moment that happens every couple of plays, Madden 10 is just too consistently frustrating in the areas that matter most. For that reason I still turn to All-Pro Football 2K8, a game where the "he did what?" moments are the exception, not the norm.

On the gameplay front, Madden 10 definitely takes a few steps forward (Pro-Tak, revamped passing game), but given the fact that it's still leaps and bounds behind All-Pro Football 2K8 in my mind when it comes to producing a consistently realistic on-field experience, it's going to take more than baby steps to regain the gameplay crown that the Madden series once held over Sega during the Genesis days.


Member Comments
# 21 CreatineKasey @ 09/08/09 03:52 PM
I think stik skillz needs a mountain dew eh phobia?
 
# 22 sambowie @ 09/08/09 04:07 PM
Love APF but there should of been enough customization that users could create all the NFL teams along with their current rosters and allow other users to download them. For example, they should have set up a system where you could design (or copy) a logo on your computer and have them placed on the helmet. They also could have provided a stadium creation tool. It would have been a great way to get around the no-NFL-license problem if the community was involved.

Maybe we'll see another APF, but with 2K hemorrhaging money it's unlikely.
 
# 23 BroMontana82 @ 09/08/09 04:15 PM
my biggest concern with madden other than the obvious things like the blocking, stat glitches etc. is the fact that sliders aren't nearly as effective as they should be...especially penalty sliders.
 
# 24 Rocky @ 09/08/09 05:20 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31
As much as I enjoyed my run with APF, I simply cannot agree.

APF has a ton of holes.

Run a base 3-2-5 with the following personnel each and every single down.


Ronnie Lott and Joey Browner at the 2nd string FS and SS spots

Lem Barney and Terry Mcdaniel at the corners

Eugene Robinson as your deep safety

Run coverage DL of choice, or a LB, depending on your preference

Stop everything.

What you really have, is a 3-4, for all practical purposes, but this set up is superior to the base 3-4 in the game, in virtually every way.

You will never have to get out of this formation, as Joey Browner, and Ronnie, are basically playing outside linebacker, and the run blocking AI, will not consistantly pick them up.
Apparently, you don't even need to do that for Madden's run blocking AI to get messed up.
 
# 25 lasthour @ 09/08/09 06:12 PM
Both games have flaws. No one is denying this. Both games are good games also.

Tell me which game digs a little deeper and actually represents the actually abilities of a NFL player and separates them from one another better? If you study these games, I do not see how you can come away saying Madden has an edge on 2k's football games all around.
 
# 26 jyoung @ 09/08/09 06:13 PM
The fade is definitely an easy route to complete in APF because of some animation issues, but it's still stoppable if you shade your defender to the outside and leave safety help over the top.

As for the 3-2 defense with all those safeties playing up front, no league would ever allow anyone to run that kind of defense since so many guys are playing out of position.

When you are playing these games with good sportsmanship in league matches instead of going against random cheesers in ranked matches, I think All Pro Football just gives you a better game of football than Madden.

Both games are fun, and both games have their share of issues, but Madden just has too many "WTF" moments over the course of a game, whereas All Pro Football generally gives you a straight game of football from start to finish with a lot fewer reminders that you are playing a video game instead of the real thing.

I like both games, and I play both of them in leagues, but if you asked me to pick one, it'd be APF.
 
# 27 marcoyk @ 09/08/09 06:50 PM
Nice article. Makes me want to give APF 2K8 a try!
 
# 28 CreatineKasey @ 09/08/09 07:19 PM
Grunt, yeah I am a defensive minded player also. With that, I still feel like when someone beat me with a quick snap fade situation its cheap points. My defensive stats were definitely inflated at times because of this.

wEEman I agree. If I had to pick one game to play for hte next 5 years, it'd be APF no question.
 
# 29 NoDakHusker @ 09/08/09 08:11 PM
APF 2k8 has great gameplay, but lack of franchise mode keeps it's replayability lower than madden. madden has made great improvements this year. it has its problems, but overall i am actually content with madden this gen. for once.
 
# 30 Spanky @ 09/08/09 08:37 PM
Really a senseless and pointless comparison. I don't care how great All-Pro plays. Playing with fake teams is no fun. The reason most people play sports games is to simulate real life teams and leagues. Madden was garbage on next-gen until this year but I'll take a garbage game that's fully licensed over a fantastic game without the NFL license.
 
# 31 seriousluboy83 @ 09/08/09 08:39 PM
Thank-you for shedding some light cause some ppl consistantly are oblivious to the obvious that Madden is still stiffing ppl...Now with that being said we all need to find ways to help improve this game or else we'll keep wasting 60 ya digg
 
# 32 Antwuan @ 09/08/09 08:40 PM
I don't know. I have had SO MANY dropped passes it is ridiculous, and I have had good pressure on the QB from beating an offensive lineman. I also rather enjoy the "coverage sacks". They do happen.

The blocking things, I agree on, though. It's funny though, because the blocking only seems severely broken when the HUM has the ball. hmmm.

I also think they should have added the logic for Intentional grounding, and fumbles (when the duck goes backward (when hit on a screen play). That would have added the icing to the cake of the new pass system.
 
# 33 speedkills @ 09/08/09 08:45 PM
You couldn't do franchise mode in APF 2K8 because it was based on legends from different eras. And VC wouldn't release another non-licensed football game for "the fans" because it's not financially feasible. APF 2K8 as solid a game as it was had poor sales figures. Our only hope is the NFL no longer offering an exclusive license. I mean even if 2K Sports secured the NFL license and EA was left out in the cold it would still be a bad thing. The more NFL games competing for our dollar the better.

I actually like Madden 10 but agree that it still can't match 2K in gameplay and presentation. But EA took significant strides this year and hope they continue to improve.
 
# 34 spankdatazz22 @ 09/08/09 10:03 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Spanky
Really a senseless and pointless comparison. I don't care how great All-Pro plays. Playing with fake teams is no fun. The reason most people play sports games is to simulate real life teams and leagues. Madden was garbage on next-gen until this year but I'll take a garbage game that's fully licensed over a fantastic game without the NFL license.
 
# 35 Skyliner80 @ 09/08/09 10:39 PM
Funny. The same people that say they would never play games with no license are the same people that won't buy a shoe because they have no Nike swoosh. I think it's very close minded. You mean to tell me that you would buy a turd that says "NFL" on it? Gimme a break.

Look I was raised watching the NFL but if there is a game that simulates real football on TV , I could care less if the teams playing were the NY/NJ Knights vs. Orlando Thunder. People just are too lazy to be creative nowadays. These are the same folks who will never give the CFL or any other league a chance which is unfortunate (but that's another topic).

Anyway, on the subject. Look, I'm enjoying Madden 10 right now, it's easily the best Madden on Next Gen, but I also have APF 2k8. I don't compare the two but I do know that All-Pro, being the rushed project that it was, still has things that the Madden series could use. The game itself is charming but also lacking. I swear, if they combined both games...you'd have the perfect football game..but alas, that horse is dead.
 
# 36 Skyliner80 @ 09/08/09 10:40 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by spankdatazz22
That broadcast view presentation and camera angles....+1 2K.
 
# 37 Eddie1967 @ 09/08/09 10:41 PM
Very good comparison. Sadly I bought into the hype that was madden 10 and have already traded the game in. All Pro did so many things right even if it wasn't perfect. Madden still has a very long way to go. Who cares if Madden has the real teams if it plays nothing like NFL.
 
# 38 boxboy99 @ 09/08/09 10:48 PM
Good write up! I didn't really get into 2K football until 08 and feel like I missed the party. I have felt that 2K's offering was superior to EA's football offering. I surely would of played more APF if I wasn't in a very active NCAA dynasty with a group of close friends. The last couple years I wanted to quit playing with my friends because I was disgusted with how horrible EA football was compared to APF. I have 3 main things I love about APF,

1) decent learning curve, I have played football games since I got gamestar football on Comadore 64 when I was 5 years old, and I can say the nuances of the game are amazing. Analog running, kicking (someone posted kicking was not automatic in Madden? I would say I am sure I wouldn't miss on APF if I ever mastered the mechanic, but a brain dead zombie and make every kick on Madden/NCAA under 49 yards etc. etc.

2) Physics Physics Physics - The game respects physics, EA does not. Most the stuff in APF is realistic looking, I cring when playing Madden and I see a warp interception or when a running back is almost leveled to their back only to some how warp forward for 3 yards. The physics make Madden fell unreal sometimes and that takes away a ton from the game. I think EA's issue is two fold a) ratings mean more than physics... the game depends on dice rolls more than what is really physcially possible and there are not enough situations where there is a neutral outcome. b) Branching Animations look unnatural.

3) Watching a replay amazes me, if you want a low quality video like the youtube clip above it is hard to tell if it is APF or the real thing. Madden you can always tell it looks way too scripted like a game.

Now what really keep me away from playing 2k online was the learning curve and poor defensive AI. I wanted to throw my controller when I played online because the guy was throwing fades all day. Also as mentioned the defense played to heavy. I would get so frustrated playing the computer because I would routinely over/under purse a play but then I realized I am playing with actually analog running and needed to adjust I just never got to master it. Obviously since i was playing offline not having a Franchise killed me, what was I playing for if I was 3-5 in a season and my gold rb was done for the year so I have no shot at making the playoffs? I'd love a new 2k game with better defensive AI and less weight on defense with a franchise mode. Still I am finding Madden 10s cpu AI is weak so playing with the right people is key.
 
# 39 wick3dsoxfan @ 09/08/09 11:09 PM
I hated, I mean hated All Pro Football. I got the game for free and still got rid of it. I loved NFL 2K5 but All Pro Football was a huge disappointment. So far this year Madden is a great game and not just another roster update.
 
# 40 acarrero @ 09/09/09 12:28 AM
Not convinced by the footage. I only bothered to see the Moreno run and the play where three hogs miss a speedy Colts LB who simply makes a play. Madden should be better, but it's still as good or better than any football game out there. Actually, NCAA is better because of how you can play defense from the defense's perspective by locking into one player, can't understand why they didn't include this in Madden.
 


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