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Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

Like a lot of sports fans, I have spent time getting to know the “popular girl” of sports gaming, EA’s Madden 10.

What probably separates my experience from most is that, as someone who has yet to buy an EA football game this generation, I’m usually content with a rental of the latest Madden or NCAA Football. I'm usually content because a weekend of play tends to be enough time for me to realize that the game is still way behind my old flame, All-Pro Football 2K8, in the one area that matters most: gameplay.

This time around I spent more than one weekend with the game, but now that I have had some time to get a feel for the game, here are some reasons why I feel Madden 10 still can't match up to the standards set by my reigning king of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8.

Line Play


Some say football games are won and lost in the trenches, and if there’s one overwhelming complaint I have with Madden this year, it’s that the game’s outdated line play really killed a lot of my initial enjoyment with the game.

Pass Rush

It’s easy to see that, in spite of some slight improvements to the user-controlled side of the game, the same old "patty cake" animations are still in full effect for Madden 10 whenever you let two AI lines battle each other. This leads to a poor overall pass rush because defensive tackles can’t bull rush and collapse the middle of the pocket with any consistency, and defensive ends still can't get up the field quick enough to make opposing quarterbacks step up or out of the pocket.

Instead, what routinely plays out in Madden 10 is a situation where the QB has enough time to text his girlfriend before the pressure finally gets close enough to force a pass.

But what really pushes the Madden 10 pass rush into the realm of complete frustration for me is the way AI quarterbacks still have that sixth sense, which allows them to sling bullet passes at the exact moment defenders get a step or two away from getting the sack.

Madden 10's robo-QB problems are made even worse by the new ability to throw the ball while getting hit, which allows the AI quarterbacks to completely avoid sacks by passing the ball out at the last second, even if it's a wounded duck that should have been flagged as intentional grounding.

In my Titans franchise, for example, I was able to record a sack in only one my first six games, despite the fact that Tennessee possesses one of the best pass rushes in the NFL (fifth overall in sacks for the 2008 season).

In the game where I did get some sacks, I didn't really earn them either. I sacked NY Jets QB Mark Sanchez (five times on the day) -- not because my pass rushers were beating the offensive linemen -- but simply because Sanchez didn’t have a high enough awareness rating to blind-heave the ball out of trouble when his seven seconds (or more) of leisure time in the pocket were finally spent.

Roll the Footage

The infrequency of double-team blocks leads to all kinds of goofy linemen mishaps in Madde10, such as this play where Pro Bowl center Kevin Mawae actually takes a few steps up the field before realizing he needs to turn around and provide help to his beaten left guard, Eugene Amano. What should have been an easy six versus three blocking situation for the Titans ends up being a hurried pass and an incompletion -- all because double teams are a rarity in Madden 10 rather than the every-down occurrence that NFL fans see on Sundays.


Run Blocking

While it's great to see EA finally taking suction blocking out of Madden, the holes it exposes in the engine's blocking logic are massive, and at times, game-crushing.

The lack of suction blocking makes it easier than ever for Madden defenders to warp off their blocks whenever the ball carrier comes nearby -- they can then slide into position for an infamous "time-shift tackle."

In a truly bizarre move, the offensive linemen even help the defenders get off blocks in Madden 10 -- this is thanks to a new "push-out" animation that releases the engaged defender out wide, and often, right into the path of the lineman's own running back.

But as bad as the AI, warping and new push-out animations are on any given run play, what really makes running the ball a profanity-laden experience (even with a Titans offensive line rated in the 90s and 80s) is the way that the sprint button completely breaks down the blocking AI, often bringing linemen to a complete halt.

At times the sprint button in Madden 10 seems more like a way to activate some sort of special “seizure mode” where linemen completely lose track of their blocking assignments and often end up running away from obvious blocking targets who are only a few yards ahead of them.

Roll the Footage

Left tackle Michael Roos and fullback Ahmard Hall appear to be in great position to block Steelers outside linebacker James Harrison at the point of attack, only they run right by the OLB and go down the field and perform identical blocking animations on a pair of inconsequential Steelers standing near the back of the end zone.


Just how bad is the run blocking in Madden 10?

So bad that four guys cannot block one defender. So bad that three players cannot even block a guy that's lined up directly in front of them before the snap.

Passing Game


Route Running

The route running in Madden games has always been sketchy at best. The main problem is that simple fundamentals, such as decelerating into a cut and accelerating out of it, have always been absent from the game.

This year's game is no different because the players in Madden 10 still don't realistically go through their routes. Instead, wide receivers just sort of jog through routes at an even speed, with no real sense of weight or acceleration.

So basically while the new jostling animations between defensive backs and wide receivers are a welcome addition to the game, what good are they when the receiver has no real way to separate himself from a defensive back, outside of pure speed?

I think the reason why speed has always been the dominate attribute in Madden games is because players spend about 90 percent of each play running around at top speed with no need to ever cut or decelerate.

Until cutting, acceleration and deceleration become a major part of Madden's route-running system, the passing engine will always be inferior to what’s on display in 2K football games to me.

Catch Logic

There has already been a lot of talk about how successful screen and flat routes are in Madden 10, but one reason why they work so well is because players catch everything. This is unfortunate because, outside of that issue, the passing game is very enjoyable.

It doesn't seem to matter if the ball is coming to a halfback, fullback, defensive lineman or middle linebacker, if a pass finds its way into a player's hands, it seems like he will come down with the grab in Madden 10 more times than not.

The unrealistic catch logic makes it much harder to play defense against a good offensive player (since everyone on the field is a pass-catching weapon). But on the other side of the ball, it also leads to a lot of unrealistic interceptions that should just be dropped by stone-handed linebackers.

Roll the Footage

Zach Thomas, an inside linebacker known more for his tackling prowess than his pass coverage, appears to be trailing along behind tight end Tony Scheffler's crossing route, only to break off his coverage the instant quarterback Kyle Orton begins his throwing motion. The aging linebacker jumps high into the air to intercept an Orton bullet that was on its way down the field to receiver Brandon Marshall.

Defense


Tackling

While Pro-Tak has definitely improved the tackling system in Madden, the bulk of Madden 10's tackles still seem to boil down to two basic types:

1. An instant collision where the ball carrier is clipped below the waist, triggering a canned tripping animation.

2. The ball carrier gets stood up awkwardly while a "group hug" session breaks out on the field.

Neither of these situations feels particularly realistic, and the group hugging in particular brings out all sorts of issues -- mainly defenders warping onto what seem like “magnetic” piles.

More concerning than the pileups, though, are the tripping animations that result from ball carriers getting clipped below the waist. In Madden 10 ball carriers getting tripped often fall forward for an extra 3 or 4 yards that, momentum wise, they don't realistically deserve. I believe this happens because the tackling system in Madden is still too reliant upon canned animations that do not adhere to proper physics or locomotion.

The prevalence of these scripted tackles also means that, aside from the Pro-Tak group hugs, defenders can't really come in to deliver a second hit that pushes an engaged ball carrier backwards like they can in All-Pro Football 2K8. This seems to be because once a scripted tackle animation begins in Madden 10, it's impossible for another defender to touch the ball carrier and change whether he falls forwards or backwards.

Put simply, how can the defense be expected to "fight for every yard" in Madden 10 when the offense is routinely given free yards by so many of the game's scripted tackles?

If Madden wants to bring its tackling engine up to 2K's level, it needs to get away from the canned animations, and get some fresh physics coded into the game that will seriously consider weight and momentum before determining the impact of a tackler/ball-carrier collision.

Broken Tackles

I am not a fan of the "branching animations" system that EA has added to the last couple of football games because it just seems to be a bandage that is attempting to cover up the larger problems that plague the EA tackling engine (see the section above).

But the branching animations really hurt Madden 10 because running backs with high elusiveness ratings can break out of collisions they obviously should have lost based on weight and momentum.

Pro-Tak contributes to this problem, too, as it's a common occurrence for running backs to be brought to a near stop by two or three guys engaged in a "group hug" session, only to have the running back shake off the group of defenders and bolt out into the open field for a huge gain.

Roll the Footage

This highlight just catches the end of "finesse back" Knowshon Moreno powering through a group of three Chiefs defenders before scoring on a game-winning, 72-yard overtime touchdown run. Oddly enough, the Chiefs would have won this game in regulation on a last-second, 53-yard field goal from Ryan Succop had it not been called back on a phantom holding penalty.


Special Teams


Like a lot of Madden 10's problems, special teams is an area of the game that has been an issue dating back to the Genesis days of the franchise.

Ever since the move to the next-gen consoles and the adoption of right-stick kicking, field goals have been way too easy to make in EA football games. Madden 10 is no exception to the latest EA football trend, with kickers routinely bombing 50-yard cannon shots like they are extra points. The only problem you'll have with the kicking game in Madden 10 is the bizarre number of holding penalties that get called, which seem to be tied specifically to field goal attempts.

Kick returns have also been a major issue in recent EA football games, mostly because of the engine's speed issues (outlined in the route-running section of this article), as well as defenders tending to stand and play patty cake with blockers (which can also be felt in the game's poor pass rush). Simply get a return man with elite top speed in Madden 10 and watch as the touchdowns come rolling in. I say that because cause once the returner gets past the first wave of blockers, the chances of the him getting touched (or even having to make a cut), are extremely slim.

Roll the Footage

Speedy receiver Eddie Royal holds down the turbo button and runs untouched to the end zone for another easy kick-return TD.

 

Final Thoughts


While the general tone of this article is negative, I do want to stress that this is the first current-gen Madden I've had some actual fun with.

Problem is, while there usually is a fun moment that happens every couple of plays, Madden 10 is just too consistently frustrating in the areas that matter most. For that reason I still turn to All-Pro Football 2K8, a game where the "he did what?" moments are the exception, not the norm.

On the gameplay front, Madden 10 definitely takes a few steps forward (Pro-Tak, revamped passing game), but given the fact that it's still leaps and bounds behind All-Pro Football 2K8 in my mind when it comes to producing a consistently realistic on-field experience, it's going to take more than baby steps to regain the gameplay crown that the Madden series once held over Sega during the Genesis days.


Member Comments
# 1 LingeringRegime @ 09/08/09 10:49 AM
Great article. I really like the strides Madden has made this year, but as you said the APF is still the best game on the field.
 
# 2 plasticbeast @ 09/08/09 10:55 AM
I agree with everything you point out. I wish so much that APF had the type of customization needed to recreate the nfl... I still play 2k5 but the graphics are getting pretty dated now when I am used to playing everything in HD.

I will still continue to play Madden but probably only to check out the Draft classes that the Head coach guys brouoght over and play my friend online as a change up from APF everyonce and a while.
 
# 3 Phobia @ 09/08/09 10:56 AM
Great read and I agree on just about every note.
 
# 4 Ijeswannaknow @ 09/08/09 11:13 AM
I still play All-Pro Football 2K8 and NFL 2K5...till this day!!! I just played a game of All-Pro last night... I havent played Madden 10 in about 10 days because of the same ol sh!+...
2K just needs to make a new football game and call it Pro Football 2k10 and blow EA Sports out the water!!! To me 2K didnt have to stop making football games bcuz of the loss of the NFL License...Just keep making games for the fans....Plllllllllllleeeeeeaaaaaassssse 2K if reading this!!! Just do it!!!!
 
# 5 elgreazy1 @ 09/08/09 11:21 AM
While I am/was a huge fan of APF2K8 -- having logged 1000+ games online easily in 2+ years -- I will have to disagree with some points made in this article. While M10 may still not be the end-all SIM-god of all football, it's very tough to say that APF was even near flawless itself. Some of the points you make are excellent in terms of M10’s faults, especially in terms of line-play & route mechanics, but APF has many faults of it’s own in some areas in which you touched upon it being superior.

While M10 has issues with pass & run blocking, APF had those as well. When the APF blocking mechanics were on, oh man is it simply a thing of absolute beauty in terms of replicating real line-play, but when it’s off, it is the most frustrating & aggravating thing to behold. I can’t recall how many times I would shift my line, leave in HBs & TEs to block and still have a DT tackle through the center without being touched as a Guard starred as he ran by. Also, on run plays with pulling OL there are countless times when my blocker would pull, have a perfect angle at a defender to seal off the trench only to have that same blocker completely pass him up & head up-field – same goes for FBs completely whiffing on blocks. These missed blocks weren’t rare, they were common place, and what was worse, it was completely random; from Generic to Gold-level OL, players would simply have brain farts that made absolutely no sense.

As far as momentum & such in both, I would have loved to see a blend of the two games, but there were times in APF where defensive controls were downright brutal or players had far too much momentum. There are countless times when I simply could not control defenders due to over-momentum. For example, when at the line before the snap, when trying to attempt to creep a defender towards the line, said defender will make a 5-yard jump, even with a slight push forward on the sticks, thus forcing you to pull back hard on the line and putting you out of position. This happens on nearly every play. The physics of the defense was simply too heavy while the offense had it just right, thus it made manually covering & pursuit downright impossible unless you either had a Silver+ tiered Legend or a player with Quick Feet. Generics? Forget about it, their momentum would take them out of plays more than help.

Now, in terms of the passing game, yes I will agree, APF has things held down when it comes to replicating real football, but even then the game has warts in itself. Route-based patterns are non-existent in M10, which makes running any WCO very difficult, but in the same regard, APF had it’s share of money routes. Anything that involved the hot-route up & out was an instant catch (well documented by Valdarez), the fade is nearly unstoppable even with elite CBs, and any route that incorporated the fade’s hitch & go was hard to stop thanks to the offensive speed boost & the secondary AI’s stupidity. Speaking of secondary AI, it was downright horrible. The Willie Brown’s, Night Train Lane’s & Rod Woodson’s of the game still get beat and beat often due to the AI. Defenders simply just stand there as the plays begin, whether they were in zone or man coverage. The only time to ever get consistent play out of the secondary was to run all press coverage all game, which turned most games into vanilla games of defensive gameplanning. God forbid you didn’t have a Bump Buster on your team or it would be a long day.

As far as special teams go, I will have to disagree with Kicker accuracy. In APF, Generic kickers were always money for me from the 35 yard line and closer (unless I had 7mph+ winds against me), M10 is not so much the case. I see players (CPU & Human) miss chip shots & such, there is no gimme kick in this game. I will agree that the holding calls are a little bizarre and very frustrating as they always seem to happen at least one kick per game. I will say though that on kick-offs & punting, APF did put a premium on having Legend kickers/punters over Generics. In that sense, they did a great job because a Legend could coffin corner a punt or boom a touchback, but a Generic would have accuracy issues and not enough leg power, thus giving up precious yardage.

In all, yes, M10 is not an APF killer, but for me, it did a great job in helping supplant my need for APF-based football for the time being. Who’s to say when my fix of Madden will subside but until then I’m enjoying playing a game of football where the bugs & glitches haven’t been dissected & exploited to death (as of yet). In terms of gameplay, yeah, I will openly admit I enjoyed playing APF more than I currently do M10 but at the same times there have been many games in APF where I felt I lost due to game-exploits, shotty AI, team builds over stick skills & gameplanning, that hasn’t been the case in M10 for me as of yet.
 
# 6 eyeknowzz @ 09/08/09 11:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by elgreazy1
While I am/was a huge fan of APF2K8 -- having logged 1000+ games online easily in 2+ years -- I will have to disagree with some points made in this article. While M10 may still not be the end-all SIM-god of all football, it's very tough to say that APF was even near flawless itself. Some of the points you make are excellent in terms of M10’s faults, especially in terms of line-play & route mechanics, but APF has many faults of it’s own in some areas in which you touched upon it being superior.

While M10 has issues with pass & run blocking, APF had those as well. When the APF blocking mechanics were on, oh man is it simply a thing of absolute beauty in terms of replicating real line-play, but when it’s off, it is the most frustrating & aggravating thing to behold. I can’t recall how many times I would shift my line, leave in HBs & TEs to block and still have a DT tackle through the center without being touched as a Guard starred as he ran by. Also, on run plays with pulling OL there are countless times when my blocker would pull, have a perfect angle at a defender to seal off the trench only to have that same blocker completely pass him up & head up-field – same goes for FBs completely whiffing on blocks. These missed blocks weren’t rare, they were common place, and what was worse, it was completely random; from Generic to Gold-level OL, players would simply have brain farts that made absolutely no sense.

As far as momentum & such in both, I would have loved to see a blend of the two games, but there were times in APF where defensive controls were downright brutal or players had far too much momentum. There are countless times when I simply could not control defenders due to over-momentum. For example, when at the line before the snap, when trying to attempt to creep a defender towards the line, said defender will make a 5-yard jump, even with a slight push forward on the sticks, thus forcing you to pull back hard on the line and putting you out of position. This happens on nearly every play. The physics of the defense was simply too heavy while the offense had it just right, thus it made manually covering & pursuit downright impossible unless you either had a Silver+ tiered Legend or a player with Quick Feet. Generics? Forget about it, their momentum would take them out of plays more than help.

Now, in terms of the passing game, yes I will agree, APF has things held down when it comes to replicating real football, but even then the game has warts in itself. Route-based patterns are non-existent in M10, which makes running any WCO very difficult, but in the same regard, APF had it’s share of money routes. Anything that involved the hot-route up & out was an instant catch (well documented by Valdarez), the fade is nearly unstoppable even with elite CBs, and any route that incorporated the fade’s hitch & go was hard to stop thanks to the offensive speed boost & the secondary AI’s stupidity. Speaking of secondary AI, it was downright horrible. The Willie Brown’s, Night Train Lane’s & Rod Woodson’s of the game still get beat and beat often due to the AI. Defenders simply just stand there as the plays begin, whether they were in zone or man coverage. The only time to ever get consistent play out of the secondary was to run all press coverage all game, which turned most games into vanilla games of defensive gameplanning. God forbid you didn’t have a Bump Buster on your team or it would be a long day.

As far as special teams go, I will have to disagree with Kicker accuracy. In APF, Generic kickers were always money for me from the 35 yard line and closer (unless I had 7mph+ winds against me), M10 is not so much the case. I see players (CPU & Human) miss chip shots & such, there is no gimme kick in this game. I will agree that the holding calls are a little bizarre and very frustrating as they always seem to happen at least one kick per game. I will say though that on kick-offs & punting, APF did put a premium on having Legend kickers/punters over Generics. In that sense, they did a great job because a Legend could coffin corner a punt or boom a touchback, but a Generic would have accuracy issues and not enough leg power, thus giving up precious yardage.

In all, yes, M10 is not an APF killer, but for me, it did a great job in helping supplant my need for APF-based football for the time being. Who’s to say when my fix of Madden will subside but until then I’m enjoying playing a game of football where the bugs & glitches haven’t been dissected & exploited to death (as of yet). In terms of gameplay, yeah, I will openly admit I enjoyed playing APF more than I currently do M10 but at the same times there have been many games in APF where I felt I lost due to game-exploits, shotty AI, team builds over stick skills & gameplanning, that hasn’t been the case in M10 for me as of yet.
Great post. I played APF for almost two years and I enjoyed the heck out of it but it had it's share of bugs and AI problems. It's funny how people seem to gloss over those issues with this game but yet they flame other games for the same reasons.

Your assessment of the blocking in this game was spot on. At times it was great and at other times it was horrible. I got so tired of seeing fat a** OL sprinting down field faster than my running back without throwing any meaningful blocks. Those fat boys would be in the back of the end zone running toward the stands while my back was just scoring. It was hilarious and frustrating at the same time.

It's funny because there were so many things that APF did right but some of its warts are the reasons why the game just feels old now. I don't even own this years versions of Madden or NCAA but I'm having trouble getting into APF now. Everything from the look of the game to the controls just feels so dated at this point.
 
# 7 GlennN @ 09/08/09 11:58 AM
If APF had Franchise mode, all would be well. As it stands, I need a Franchise mode these days!
 
# 8 GeDDeN7xxl @ 09/08/09 12:09 PM
Still trumps because it based on real football not Arcade like physics
 
# 9 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/08/09 12:35 PM
As much as I enjoyed my run with APF, I simply cannot agree.

APF has a ton of holes.

Run a base 3-2-5 with the following personnel each and every single down.


Ronnie Lott and Joey Browner at the 2nd string FS and SS spots

Lem Barney and Terry Mcdaniel at the corners

Eugene Robinson as your deep safety

Run coverage DL of choice, or a LB, depending on your preference

Stop everything.

What you really have, is a 3-4, for all practical purposes, but this set up is superior to the base 3-4 in the game, in virtually every way.

You will never have to get out of this formation, as Joey Browner, and Ronnie, are basically playing outside linebacker, and the run blocking AI, will not consistantly pick them up.
 
# 10 Phobia @ 09/08/09 01:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by STICK-SK1LLZ
man 2k stay with fanboys!!!! madden is cool this year man... idk care about halftime shows and cut scenes, thats all 2k5 ever had on madden.. i like gameplay and ea does it better.. so if u want to play 5 on 5 nba jam basket ball go get Nba 2k.. if you want a realistic game where you have to think, get nba live 10!!!!!!!!! ea does gameplay better than 2k, people play 2k because its like an arcade game... i want to play real ball so i will stick with ea..
Your name says everything we need to know about you.
 
# 11 bigsmallwood @ 09/08/09 01:18 PM
I agree with everything you have said here. There are some who say Madden 10 can do no wrong and bash 2K without reason....but These are huge problems for Madden and they have not been fixed yet (surprisingly).
 
# 12 Blzer @ 09/08/09 01:29 PM
I would own and play APF 2K8 daily if it had a franchise mode and the PS3 version had visuals that matched up with the 360 version, namely in the framerate. I played the 360 version non-stop, but I downloaded the PS3 demo and didn't play past one drive because of the framerate. It's unfortunate and I just need one more release from them at least to tide me over with the PS3 version being visually on par with the 360 version.

Come on 2K, we need you again!
 
# 13 bjones16 @ 09/08/09 02:08 PM
Great Post! I agree with everything. This is the reason why i cant play Madden. Thank god they didnt get my money this year
 
# 14 spixxx8 @ 09/08/09 02:35 PM
I don't understand why people think madden going to change... its like a cheating husband .. dude never going to change to but you keep taking him back lol
 
# 15 ANDROMADA 1 @ 09/08/09 02:36 PM
Its a nice article.I guess it boils down to what does 2k have to offer this year?The obvious answer is nothing and they should be ashamed for that.Ea has put out a product that has no competition that is actually quite enjoyable to me.I overlook most flaws in games that I buy otherwise I would have nothing to purchase and in this case the people that I play with make all the diference in the world.In no way do I feel that APF trumps Madden.That is absurd....dont believe me, just read some of the threads here about various issues...Both Games have ISSUES.I would rather Have the NEW ISSUES and DEV interactions than Rumors followed by more rumors with no official 2k statements.
 
# 16 StormJH1 @ 09/08/09 03:06 PM
Prefacing this post with the comment that I have traditionally been a Madden-basher, dating back to the exclusivity deal, I'm beyond that now, and purchased Madden 10 on release day and still love it. Is it without problems? Of course not! But I find it funny that games like NFL 2k5 and APF 2k8 get excused from their MANY shortcomings, for no other apparent reason than the fact that people hate EA.

The lack of any type of legitimate franchise (or even season mode, when you consider that most single season modes allow for trading, free agent acquisitions, etc.) cannot be glossed over...it was a MAJOR omission. In fact, for a football game that was primarily targeted at the hardcore football gamers (the people who kept the ghosts of NFL 2k5 alive in everyone's minds), omitting a franchise mode (even a barebones one with generic players), along with ratings systems and other features is simply inexcusable.

Also, please stop pretending like the gameplay in APF is bulletproof. Try scrambling away from a defensive tackle with a speedster like Randall Cunningham, and recognize that you can get caught in the open field on a pretty regular basis. Of course, only the people who play the game might even notice this, since 2k decided to "hide" all their player ratings. Defense (particularly pass coverage) is still practically unusable with human controls, and there are other unrealistic things that happen in the pass game that would've been universally ripped if they occured in a game with "Madden" on the cover.

APF was a failed experiment because 2k, once again, got so freaked out by the Madden behemoth that they focused a large portion of their time and resources chasing around hundreds of former NFL players that nobody today really cares about, rather than focusing on a making a quality title for football gamers.

IMO, APF and Madden aren't even true competitors. Anyone can go pick up 2k's valiant football effort for 7 dollars at your local GameStop, so why the need to constantly compare and contrast. And if APF is clearly so much better than Madden, how many people on your friends list would you ever see playing that game? Honestly? Perhaps if 2k had given us a reason to play more than a handful of games with it (or online with designated friends), we might have come back for more.
 
# 17 StormJH1 @ 09/08/09 03:13 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by ANDROMADA 1
Its a nice article.I guess it boils down to what does 2k have to offer this year?The obvious answer is nothing and they should be ashamed for that.Ea has put out a product that has no competition that is actually quite enjoyable to me.I overlook most flaws in games that I buy otherwise I would have nothing to purchase and in this case the people that I play with make all the diference in the world.In no way do I feel that APF trumps Madden.That is absurd....dont believe me, just read some of the threads here about various issues...Both Games have ISSUES.I would rather Have the NEW ISSUES and DEV interactions than Rumors followed by more rumors with no official 2k statements.
Good point. What's the most frequent complaint against buying Madden year after year? "Oh, you're getting nothing more than a roster update." With APF, not only was the gameplay only a mediocre refinement of 2k5's last-gen engine, but you don't even get a "roster update" because:
(1) The game isn't made or supported anymore
(2) The game lacks an NFL license
(3) There were never real "rosters" to begin with b/c you had this strange alternate universe where fake players and retired NFL vets play in a "league"
(4) Roster management never would've worked in a game with no ratings, transactions, drafts, or franchise modes anyway.

Rather than always hiding behing the "big, bad EA" argument, why are those shortcomings overlooked?

When people evaluate Madden or NCAA, they invariably say stupid things like "Well, this game lacks true field degradation and time of day progression, so those are deal-breakers for me" Crappy, niche features that nobody notices are "deal-breakers", but the total failure to provide anything looking like a professional football league of any kind is not!?!
 
# 18 jyoung @ 09/08/09 03:13 PM
I don't think the assertion in this article is that All Pro Football is the more complete game compared to Madden but that it simply trumps Madden when it comes to gameplay.

Hard to argue with that, in my opinion, because even though both games have their flaws, All Pro Football has a lot less of them overall and has a lot more of the sport's fundamentals down (blocking, tackling, pass rush, route running) that Madden still hasn't figured out yet.
 
# 19 Michael Vick @ 09/08/09 03:17 PM
you guys are all idiots. i literally burned my all pro football because it was litterally THE WORST GAME I HAVE EVER PLAYED. it is fun to pick your players but the gameplay is just so awful. everything about it sucks
 
# 20 CreatineKasey @ 09/08/09 03:48 PM
Greazy, you and I both played for years and I definitely agree with you on this one. There are problems in APF that some would definitely see as game breaking. Your defense revolved around stopping the fade route if there was anything more than a generic WR out there. that alone limited what defensive plays you could call and turned many matches into "dink and dunk until you try to pressure and then I audible to the fade" which simplified an extremely complex game.

APF is generally an offensive biased game and I feel Madden is more balanced. APF would give the offensive player the benefit of the doubt more often than not with throws on time that were into coverage, with momentum, and with when the ball is snapped. Quick snapping in that game can completely ruin it also.

I personally prefer APF's kicking system, I like having no visual meter... it keeps us inconsistent and that's more real. Let's not all forget the corner kicking glitch where your returners slide out of bounds inside the 10 because of momentum and ball tracking issues.

What I'm getting at here is yes, APF's gameplay can outperform Madden's, but it needs a 5 page rulebook to do so. Not kidding. I, like Greazy, also enjoyed APF more in its hey day over M10. I really enjoyed the creating a team idea. You really grow attached to your players, style of play, and builds because you yourself chose it.

So that's where we sit. Hopefully 2k does us a favor and makes a little college football with an unlockable "pretend" *wink wink* dynasty mode with a playoff feature.
 

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