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RaychelSnr · 09-08-2009, 11:26 AM

Like a lot of sports fans, I have spent time getting to know the “popular girl” of sports gaming, EA’s Madden 10.

What probably separates my experience from most is that, as someone who has yet to buy an EA football game this generation, I’m usually content with a rental of the latest Madden or NCAA Football. I'm usually content because a weekend of play tends to be enough time for me to realize that the game is still way behind my old flame, All-Pro Football 2K8, in the one area that matters most: gameplay.

This time around I spent more than one weekend with the game, but now that I have had some time to get a feel for the game, here are some reasons why I feel Madden 10 still can't match up to the standards set by my reigning king of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8.

Read More - Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

LingeringRegime · 09-08-2009, 11:49 AM

Great article. I really like the strides Madden has made this year, but as you said the APF is still the best game on the field.

plasticbeast · 09-08-2009, 11:55 AM

I agree with everything you point out. I wish so much that APF had the type of customization needed to recreate the nfl... I still play 2k5 but the graphics are getting pretty dated now when I am used to playing everything in HD.

I will still continue to play Madden but probably only to check out the Draft classes that the Head coach guys brouoght over and play my friend online as a change up from APF everyonce and a while.

Phobia · 09-08-2009, 11:56 AM

Great read and I agree on just about every note.

Ijeswannaknow · 09-08-2009, 12:13 PM

I still play All-Pro Football 2K8 and NFL 2K5...till this day!!! I just played a game of All-Pro last night... I havent played Madden 10 in about 10 days because of the same ol sh!+...
2K just needs to make a new football game and call it Pro Football 2k10 and blow EA Sports out the water!!! To me 2K didnt have to stop making football games bcuz of the loss of the NFL License...Just keep making games for the fans....Plllllllllllleeeeeeaaaaaassssse 2K if reading this!!! Just do it!!!!

elgreazy1 · 09-08-2009, 12:21 PM

While I am/was a huge fan of APF2K8 -- having logged 1000+ games online easily in 2+ years -- I will have to disagree with some points made in this article. While M10 may still not be the end-all SIM-god of all football, it's very tough to say that APF was even near flawless itself. Some of the points you make are excellent in terms of M10’s faults, especially in terms of line-play & route mechanics, but APF has many faults of it’s own in some areas in which you touched upon it being superior.

While M10 has issues with pass & run blocking, APF had those as well. When the APF blocking mechanics were on, oh man is it simply a thing of absolute beauty in terms of replicating real line-play, but when it’s off, it is the most frustrating & aggravating thing to behold. I can’t recall how many times I would shift my line, leave in HBs & TEs to block and still have a DT tackle through the center without being touched as a Guard starred as he ran by. Also, on run plays with pulling OL there are countless times when my blocker would pull, have a perfect angle at a defender to seal off the trench only to have that same blocker completely pass him up & head up-field – same goes for FBs completely whiffing on blocks. These missed blocks weren’t rare, they were common place, and what was worse, it was completely random; from Generic to Gold-level OL, players would simply have brain farts that made absolutely no sense.

As far as momentum & such in both, I would have loved to see a blend of the two games, but there were times in APF where defensive controls were downright brutal or players had far too much momentum. There are countless times when I simply could not control defenders due to over-momentum. For example, when at the line before the snap, when trying to attempt to creep a defender towards the line, said defender will make a 5-yard jump, even with a slight push forward on the sticks, thus forcing you to pull back hard on the line and putting you out of position. This happens on nearly every play. The physics of the defense was simply too heavy while the offense had it just right, thus it made manually covering & pursuit downright impossible unless you either had a Silver+ tiered Legend or a player with Quick Feet. Generics? Forget about it, their momentum would take them out of plays more than help.

Now, in terms of the passing game, yes I will agree, APF has things held down when it comes to replicating real football, but even then the game has warts in itself. Route-based patterns are non-existent in M10, which makes running any WCO very difficult, but in the same regard, APF had it’s share of money routes. Anything that involved the hot-route up & out was an instant catch (well documented by Valdarez), the fade is nearly unstoppable even with elite CBs, and any route that incorporated the fade’s hitch & go was hard to stop thanks to the offensive speed boost & the secondary AI’s stupidity. Speaking of secondary AI, it was downright horrible. The Willie Brown’s, Night Train Lane’s & Rod Woodson’s of the game still get beat and beat often due to the AI. Defenders simply just stand there as the plays begin, whether they were in zone or man coverage. The only time to ever get consistent play out of the secondary was to run all press coverage all game, which turned most games into vanilla games of defensive gameplanning. God forbid you didn’t have a Bump Buster on your team or it would be a long day.

As far as special teams go, I will have to disagree with Kicker accuracy. In APF, Generic kickers were always money for me from the 35 yard line and closer (unless I had 7mph+ winds against me), M10 is not so much the case. I see players (CPU & Human) miss chip shots & such, there is no gimme kick in this game. I will agree that the holding calls are a little bizarre and very frustrating as they always seem to happen at least one kick per game. I will say though that on kick-offs & punting, APF did put a premium on having Legend kickers/punters over Generics. In that sense, they did a great job because a Legend could coffin corner a punt or boom a touchback, but a Generic would have accuracy issues and not enough leg power, thus giving up precious yardage.

In all, yes, M10 is not an APF killer, but for me, it did a great job in helping supplant my need for APF-based football for the time being. Who’s to say when my fix of Madden will subside but until then I’m enjoying playing a game of football where the bugs & glitches haven’t been dissected & exploited to death (as of yet). In terms of gameplay, yeah, I will openly admit I enjoyed playing APF more than I currently do M10 but at the same times there have been many games in APF where I felt I lost due to game-exploits, shotty AI, team builds over stick skills & gameplanning, that hasn’t been the case in M10 for me as of yet.

And one1 · 09-08-2009, 12:25 PM

Never before have i read an article that had every thing i was thinking about. When i say Sam Morris break a 4 - man gang tackle for 82 yards i knew EA stole my money again. I really enjoy playing defense, but when you see that type of **** and qbs intentionally grounding it makes me sick. I finally see that EA just doesnt give a **** about the real sport they just throw smoke screens up. In Fight Night a guy can throw a thousand punches and bob and weave all fight without getting tired?! Thats boxing?!! In live 10 the starting 5 line-up comes out on to the court as a gang and the star player does a dance?! What games are EA watching! 2013 cant come soon enough!!!

Smokez4DAyz · 09-08-2009, 12:48 PM

I still prefer the NFL, so for that reason, I don't care about most of your gameplay gripes, cuz the game is the nfl. Madden is a very good title, and having the NFL, is why I come back. I throw to the routes being run, I have 20 sacks in my season 7min qtrs with Sean Ellis, jets DE, got 11 with Goulston. My recievers run routes, I would tend to agree with the blocking/tackling gripe, but even that isn't a deal killer. Your opinion is yours, but APF is a stale title, find 60 bucks a cop madden finally for next gen.

09-08-2009, 11:26 AM	#1
RaychelSnr Executive Editor OVR: 57 Join Date: Jan 2007 Location: Oklahoma City, OK Posts: 4,846 Blog Entries: 490	Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden Like a lot of sports fans, I have spent time getting to know the “popular girl” of sports gaming, EA’s Madden 10. What probably separates my experience from most is that, as someone who has yet to buy an EA football game this generation, I’m usually content with a rental of the latest Madden or NCAA Football. I'm usually content because a weekend of play tends to be enough time for me to realize that the game is still way behind my old flame, All-Pro Football 2K8, in the one area that matters most: gameplay. This time around I spent more than one weekend with the game, but now that I have had some time to get a feel for the game, here are some reasons why I feel Madden 10 still can't match up to the standards set by my reigning king of gameplay, All-Pro Football 2K8. Read More - Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden Platform: PS3 / Xbox 360

09-08-2009, 11:49 AM	#2
LingeringRegime Hall Of Fame OVR: 47 Join Date: Jun 2007 Posts: 17,105 Blog Entries: 2	Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden Great article. I really like the strides Madden has made this year, but as you said the APF is still the best game on the field.

09-08-2009, 11:55 AM	#3
plasticbeast MVP OVR: 11 Join Date: Dec 2005 Location: Morgantown	Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden I agree with everything you point out. I wish so much that APF had the type of customization needed to recreate the nfl... I still play 2k5 but the graphics are getting pretty dated now when I am used to playing everything in HD. I will still continue to play Madden but probably only to check out the Draft classes that the Head coach guys brouoght over and play my friend online as a change up from APF everyonce and a while. __________________ www.simgamingnetwork.com Come join our leagues! OSFL: Lake County Extreme- 2010 OSFL Champs NCFA: WVU Mountaineers- As long as we beat Pitt... BLB: Morgantown Mowhawks- Expansion Team

09-08-2009, 11:56 AM	#4
Phobia Hall Of Fame OVR: 63 Join Date: Jan 2008 Location: Louisiana, Lafayette Posts: 11,635 Blog Entries: 11	Re: Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden Great read and I agree on just about every note.

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09-08-2009, 12:13 PM	#5
Ijeswannaknow Rookie OVR: 8 Join Date: Aug 2008 Location: Hartford, CT	I still play All-Pro Football 2K8 and NFL 2K5...till this day!!! I just played a game of All-Pro last night... I havent played Madden 10 in about 10 days because of the same ol sh!+... 2K just needs to make a new football game and call it Pro Football 2k10 and blow EA Sports out the water!!! To me 2K didnt have to stop making football games bcuz of the loss of the NFL License...Just keep making games for the fans....Plllllllllllleeeeeeaaaaaassssse 2K if reading this!!! Just do it!!!!

09-08-2009, 12:21 PM	#6
elgreazy1 MVP OVR: 28 Join Date: Apr 2007 Location: Austin, TX Blog Entries: 8	While I am/was a huge fan of APF2K8 -- having logged 1000+ games online easily in 2+ years -- I will have to disagree with some points made in this article. While M10 may still not be the end-all SIM-god of all football, it's very tough to say that APF was even near flawless itself. Some of the points you make are excellent in terms of M10’s faults, especially in terms of line-play & route mechanics, but APF has many faults of it’s own in some areas in which you touched upon it being superior. While M10 has issues with pass & run blocking, APF had those as well. When the APF blocking mechanics were on, oh man is it simply a thing of absolute beauty in terms of replicating real line-play, but when it’s off, it is the most frustrating & aggravating thing to behold. I can’t recall how many times I would shift my line, leave in HBs & TEs to block and still have a DT tackle through the center without being touched as a Guard starred as he ran by. Also, on run plays with pulling OL there are countless times when my blocker would pull, have a perfect angle at a defender to seal off the trench only to have that same blocker completely pass him up & head up-field – same goes for FBs completely whiffing on blocks. These missed blocks weren’t rare, they were common place, and what was worse, it was completely random; from Generic to Gold-level OL, players would simply have brain farts that made absolutely no sense. As far as momentum & such in both, I would have loved to see a blend of the two games, but there were times in APF where defensive controls were downright brutal or players had far too much momentum. There are countless times when I simply could not control defenders due to over-momentum. For example, when at the line before the snap, when trying to attempt to creep a defender towards the line, said defender will make a 5-yard jump, even with a slight push forward on the sticks, thus forcing you to pull back hard on the line and putting you out of position. This happens on nearly every play. The physics of the defense was simply too heavy while the offense had it just right, thus it made manually covering & pursuit downright impossible unless you either had a Silver+ tiered Legend or a player with Quick Feet. Generics? Forget about it, their momentum would take them out of plays more than help. Now, in terms of the passing game, yes I will agree, APF has things held down when it comes to replicating real football, but even then the game has warts in itself. Route-based patterns are non-existent in M10, which makes running any WCO very difficult, but in the same regard, APF had it’s share of money routes. Anything that involved the hot-route up & out was an instant catch (well documented by Valdarez), the fade is nearly unstoppable even with elite CBs, and any route that incorporated the fade’s hitch & go was hard to stop thanks to the offensive speed boost & the secondary AI’s stupidity. Speaking of secondary AI, it was downright horrible. The Willie Brown’s, Night Train Lane’s & Rod Woodson’s of the game still get beat and beat often due to the AI. Defenders simply just stand there as the plays begin, whether they were in zone or man coverage. The only time to ever get consistent play out of the secondary was to run all press coverage all game, which turned most games into vanilla games of defensive gameplanning. God forbid you didn’t have a Bump Buster on your team or it would be a long day. As far as special teams go, I will have to disagree with Kicker accuracy. In APF, Generic kickers were always money for me from the 35 yard line and closer (unless I had 7mph+ winds against me), M10 is not so much the case. I see players (CPU & Human) miss chip shots & such, there is no gimme kick in this game. I will agree that the holding calls are a little bizarre and very frustrating as they always seem to happen at least one kick per game. I will say though that on kick-offs & punting, APF did put a premium on having Legend kickers/punters over Generics. In that sense, they did a great job because a Legend could coffin corner a punt or boom a touchback, but a Generic would have accuracy issues and not enough leg power, thus giving up precious yardage. In all, yes, M10 is not an APF killer, but for me, it did a great job in helping supplant my need for APF-based football for the time being. Who’s to say when my fix of Madden will subside but until then I’m enjoying playing a game of football where the bugs & glitches haven’t been dissected & exploited to death (as of yet). In terms of gameplay, yeah, I will openly admit I enjoyed playing APF more than I currently do M10 but at the same times there have been many games in APF where I felt I lost due to game-exploits, shotty AI, team builds over stick skills & gameplanning, that hasn’t been the case in M10 for me as of yet.

09-08-2009, 12:25 PM	#7
And one1 Banned OVR: 6 Join Date: Aug 2009	Never before have i read an article that had every thing i was thinking about. When i say Sam Morris break a 4 - man gang tackle for 82 yards i knew EA stole my money again. I really enjoy playing defense, but when you see that type of ** and qbs intentionally grounding it makes me sick. I finally see that EA just doesnt give a ** about the real sport they just throw smoke screens up. In Fight Night a guy can throw a thousand punches and bob and weave all fight without getting tired?! Thats boxing?!! In live 10 the starting 5 line-up comes out on to the court as a gang and the star player does a dance?! What games are EA watching! 2013 cant come soon enough!!!

09-08-2009, 12:48 PM	#8
Smokez4DAyz Banned OVR: 11 Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: brooklyn, nyc Blog Entries: 1	I still prefer the NFL, so for that reason, I don't care about most of your gameplay gripes, cuz the game is the nfl. Madden is a very good title, and having the NFL, is why I come back. I throw to the routes being run, I have 20 sacks in my season 7min qtrs with Sean Ellis, jets DE, got 11 with Goulston. My recievers run routes, I would tend to agree with the blocking/tackling gripe, but even that isn't a deal killer. Your opinion is yours, but APF is a stale title, find 60 bucks a cop madden finally for next gen.