Why All-Pro Football Still Trumps Madden

[eyeknowzz]

Quote: Originally Posted by elgreazy1

While I am/was a huge fan of APF2K8 -- having logged 1000+ games online easily in 2+ years -- I will have to disagree with some points made in this article. While M10 may still not be the end-all SIM-god of all football, it's very tough to say that APF was even near flawless itself. Some of the points you make are excellent in terms of M10’s faults, especially in terms of line-play & route mechanics, but APF has many faults of it’s own in some areas in which you touched upon it being superior. While M10 has issues with pass & run blocking, APF had those as well. When the APF blocking mechanics were on, oh man is it simply a thing of absolute beauty in terms of replicating real line-play, but when it’s off, it is the most frustrating & aggravating thing to behold. I can’t recall how many times I would shift my line, leave in HBs & TEs to block and still have a DT tackle through the center without being touched as a Guard starred as he ran by. Also, on run plays with pulling OL there are countless times when my blocker would pull, have a perfect angle at a defender to seal off the trench only to have that same blocker completely pass him up & head up-field – same goes for FBs completely whiffing on blocks. These missed blocks weren’t rare, they were common place, and what was worse, it was completely random; from Generic to Gold-level OL, players would simply have brain farts that made absolutely no sense. As far as momentum & such in both, I would have loved to see a blend of the two games, but there were times in APF where defensive controls were downright brutal or players had far too much momentum. There are countless times when I simply could not control defenders due to over-momentum. For example, when at the line before the snap, when trying to attempt to creep a defender towards the line, said defender will make a 5-yard jump, even with a slight push forward on the sticks, thus forcing you to pull back hard on the line and putting you out of position. This happens on nearly every play. The physics of the defense was simply too heavy while the offense had it just right, thus it made manually covering & pursuit downright impossible unless you either had a Silver+ tiered Legend or a player with Quick Feet. Generics? Forget about it, their momentum would take them out of plays more than help. Now, in terms of the passing game, yes I will agree, APF has things held down when it comes to replicating real football, but even then the game has warts in itself. Route-based patterns are non-existent in M10, which makes running any WCO very difficult, but in the same regard, APF had it’s share of money routes. Anything that involved the hot-route up & out was an instant catch (well documented by Valdarez), the fade is nearly unstoppable even with elite CBs, and any route that incorporated the fade’s hitch & go was hard to stop thanks to the offensive speed boost & the secondary AI’s stupidity. Speaking of secondary AI, it was downright horrible. The Willie Brown’s, Night Train Lane’s & Rod Woodson’s of the game still get beat and beat often due to the AI. Defenders simply just stand there as the plays begin, whether they were in zone or man coverage. The only time to ever get consistent play out of the secondary was to run all press coverage all game, which turned most games into vanilla games of defensive gameplanning. God forbid you didn’t have a Bump Buster on your team or it would be a long day. As far as special teams go, I will have to disagree with Kicker accuracy. In APF, Generic kickers were always money for me from the 35 yard line and closer (unless I had 7mph+ winds against me), M10 is not so much the case. I see players (CPU & Human) miss chip shots & such, there is no gimme kick in this game. I will agree that the holding calls are a little bizarre and very frustrating as they always seem to happen at least one kick per game. I will say though that on kick-offs & punting, APF did put a premium on having Legend kickers/punters over Generics. In that sense, they did a great job because a Legend could coffin corner a punt or boom a touchback, but a Generic would have accuracy issues and not enough leg power, thus giving up precious yardage. In all, yes, M10 is not an APF killer, but for me, it did a great job in helping supplant my need for APF-based football for the time being. Who’s to say when my fix of Madden will subside but until then I’m enjoying playing a game of football where the bugs & glitches haven’t been dissected & exploited to death (as of yet). In terms of gameplay, yeah, I will openly admit I enjoyed playing APF more than I currently do M10 but at the same times there have been many games in APF where I felt I lost due to game-exploits, shotty AI, team builds over stick skills & gameplanning, that hasn’t been the case in M10 for me as of yet.

Great post. I played APF for almost two years and I enjoyed the heck out of it but it had it's share of bugs and AI problems. It's funny how people seem to gloss over those issues with this game but yet they flame other games for the same reasons.

Your assessment of the blocking in this game was spot on. At times it was great and at other times it was horrible. I got so tired of seeing fat a** OL sprinting down field faster than my running back without throwing any meaningful blocks. Those fat boys would be in the back of the end zone running toward the stands while my back was just scoring. It was hilarious and frustrating at the same time.

It's funny because there were so many things that APF did right but some of its warts are the reasons why the game just feels old now. I don't even own this years versions of Madden or NCAA but I'm having trouble getting into APF now. Everything from the look of the game to the controls just feels so dated at this point.

[GlennN]

If APF had Franchise mode, all would be well. As it stands, I need a Franchise mode these days!

[GeDDeN7xxl]

Still trumps because it based on real football not Arcade like physics

[deepen03]

damn yo!! nice article!! send that to EA ASAP!! maybe they can fix a lot of that for Madden 11!

[sportyguyfl31]

As much as I enjoyed my run with APF, I simply cannot agree.

APF has a ton of holes.

Run a base 3-2-5 with the following personnel each and every single down.


Ronnie Lott and Joey Browner at the 2nd string FS and SS spots

Lem Barney and Terry Mcdaniel at the corners

Eugene Robinson as your deep safety

Run coverage DL of choice, or a LB, depending on your preference

Stop everything.

What you really have, is a 3-4, for all practical purposes, but this set up is superior to the base 3-4 in the game, in virtually every way.

You will never have to get out of this formation, as Joey Browner, and Ronnie, are basically playing outside linebacker, and the run blocking AI, will not consistantly pick them up.

[STICK-SK1LLZ]

man 2k stay with fanboys!!!! madden is cool this year man... idk care about halftime shows and cut scenes, thats all 2k5 ever had on madden.. i like gameplay and ea does it better.. so if u want to play 5 on 5 nba jam basket ball go get Nba 2k.. if you want a realistic game where you have to think, get nba live 10!!!!!!!!! ea does gameplay better than 2k, people play 2k because its like an arcade game... i want to play real ball so i will stick with ea..

[grunt]

I never had those db ai problems even with the hot routes. APF engine is more dynamic. The passing game with the combination of qbs/wrs interaction is a generation ahead of madden. The LOS play is still a gen ahead of Madden. No one is glossing over APF game flaws but APF hit on more football fundementals than Madden 10.

Madden 09 wasn't as bad some would say and Madden 10 isn't as ground breaking.

[grunt]

Quote: Originally Posted by eyeknowzz

Great post. I played APF for almost two years and I enjoyed the heck out of it but it had it's share of bugs and AI problems. It's funny how people seem to gloss over those issues with this game but yet they flame other games for the same reasons. Your assessment of the blocking in this game was spot on. At times it was great and at other times it was horrible. I got so tired of seeing fat a** OL sprinting down field faster than my running back without throwing any meaningful blocks. Those fat boys would be in the back of the end zone running toward the stands while my back was just scoring. It was hilarious and frustrating at the same time. It's funny because there were so many things that APF did right but some of its warts are the reasons why the game just feels old now. I don't even own this years versions of Madden or NCAA but I'm having trouble getting into APF now. Everything from the look of the game to the controls just feels so dated at this point.

I agree the second level blocking wasn't as good. It was better in NL2k5 but if you have problems in APF o line play then Madden must be close to unplayable.