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NBA 2K12 Developer Insight #4 - Playcall System

Rob Jones here, bringing you an in-depth look at NBA 2K12’s new strategy features and play system.

NBA 2K11 marked a year of many successful implementations by our development team.  From the inclusion of Michael Jordan, with his challenges and rivals, to marked improvements in gameplay, AI and controls, one of the factors we wanted to really step up was the authenticity of playcalling and strategy.  Let’s say just it.  NBA 2K11 boasted the most authentic and varied playbooks for each team to grace any basketball game.    That said, there is always room for improvement.  At 2K, improvement is generally not our target, though.  We aim to create new experiences and, to do that, you have to be willing to sacrifice all that came before.

With that in mind, we set up to do the following things:

  1. Dramatically improve the play system.
  2. Make Playcalling more accessible to the user, so that more players will understand the value of strategic basketball.
  3. Add On the Fly Strategic Adjustments to allow users to change their team’s approach to the game without having to go to the Coaching menu.

PLAYSYSTEM AND PLAYCALLING

Play distribution became a major area of focus for the team this year. First, there were a few major hurdles we needed to overcome to take our system to the next level.

Our fans had voiced their desire for having plays assigned to players, not positions.  As a response, in 2K11, we allowed users to assign four plays to each of their starters.  In addition to the four plays for each starter, we had the ability to share four plays between your bench players who played the same position.

As an intermediate solution, this answered some of the community’s requests, but also introduced a few unintended obstacles.

One of those obstacles was play management. Because the playbooks were hardcoded into our game last year, anytime a player moved from a starter to the bench or changed teams, plays had to be manually tracked and updated, even for the smallest roster move. This resulted in many players having plays assigned to them that did not make the best use of their own abilities.

Another long lamented issue for fans of our game was the four play limitation for plays assigned to each player.  This may not seem like a big of an issue if you play the game sparingly. However, over time, the lack of offensive play variety for specific players became a major limitation to the strategic element of the game.

So when reviewing this internally, we sought out the best solution to this issue. All of our gameplay team and a member of the SIM gaming community (the man behind some of the great playcall videos put together last year – Da Czar) locked themselves in a meeting room for six hours until they came up with an equitable solution.  Yes, we do bring in our most dedicated community members for their opinions - as you’ve seen with Da Czar’s involvement and with our Momentous videos from over the years.

From that meeting we decided that play types distribute themselves into eight key groups:

Pick and Roll Ballhandler

The man who dribbles the ball around the screen in Pick and Roll situations

Pick and Roll Screener

Man who sets a screen on the ballhandler’s man

Isolation

Space created for one-on-one opportunities

Low Post

Post plays where you receive on or near the low block.

High Post

Post plays where you receive the ball at the high post extended

Cutter

Plays where a man comes off a screen or receives a hand off headed towards the basket

Screen Mid

Plays where a player comes off a screen looking to get open for a Jumpshot from Midrange

Screen 3PT

Plays where a player comes off a screen looking to get open for a Jumpshot from 3PT range.

Click here for high resolution

In NBA 2K12, any player in the game can be assigned as many as four different play types.  These four playtypes are ranked 1-4 and weighted accordingly, so those who choose auto playcalling can influence which types of plays are called more often.

This allows a team’s playbook to be created dynamically which means that no manual intervention is needed when a player is moved into or out of the starting lineup and/or is traded.  As in the real NBA, if a player is traded, he will keep his play type assignment and simply inherit all the plays of that type in his new team’s playbook.

Click here for high resolution

We, of course, made sure to have a few plays of each type in every current team’s playbook to account for trades that may happen during the course of the year.

One benefit of this new system is that now, once a player is assigned a play type, he has access to every play of that type in his team’s playbook. So if you have Carmelo Anthony assigned as an Isolation player and you have 10 Iso plays in your playbook, he has access to all 10 of those plays in addition to any other plays in the other three slots.

The only drawback to this system is that the playbooks are created dynamically based on which play types you select for each player; therefore, you cannot choose the order in which the plays show up in the play call screen. The order the plays appear will remain static until you choose to change the play types assigned to a particular player. Then, the play call list is dynamically recreated again and remains the same until changed.

The Regular Playcalling interface remains virtually unchanged.

Bring up the Playcalling interface by tapping LB (R1 on PS3).  Then select the icon of the player you wish to run a play for.  Once you get here, the plays display for that player.

This menu has changed a bit from 2K11. Last year you had four plays to choose from. This year you have five. You can call a play by selecting either A, B, X, Y, or LT on the 360. However, if a player has more than five plays assigned to his selected play type, then at the bottom of the menu you will see a RT followed by current page / Total number of pages. Advanced users can use the RT to page through all available plays for this particular player.

Click here for high resolution

Now users are freed from the four play limitation and can get as creative as they desire (as all current teams play-books are fully editable). You are free to stack your playbook with plays that only apply to the play types of your stars or spread the playtypes evenly between the different types of player personnel on your team.

You can choose to look for players that fit within your current play scheme or expand your horizons as your front office increases your talent pool.

A second and quicker way of calling a play is to touch D-Pad Right and select RUN BEST PLAY.  The AI will select the best play at the time and set it up for you to run.  This feature can turn even the most casual player into a veritable Phil Jackson.

Click here for high resolution

Now that the interface and play selection part is done, let’s get to what I consider the most exciting part about the play system changes that are implemented in NBA 2K12.

Living Branches

We went back to the well as a team, along with Da Czar, to provide additional feedback to help us design a system that surpasses any before it in play execution and implementation.  It quickly became apparent that our current play system would need to be refactored in order to do the job.   One of our top engineers was tasked to redesign our play system to accommodate the massive overhaul to both play logic and play execution.  We believe NBA 2K12 offers the most up-to-date and authentic NBA play calling experience available today.

One of the main critiques was that our plays were too static and lacked the ability to branch into other scoring opportunities. In addition, some plays just took too long to get started while others were just plain ineffective.

While past branching systems relied heavily on the pass or no pass option to initiate a branch, NBA 2k12's Living branch system is the first to allow branching based on a pass / no pass option, as well as branches initiated by movement including off the dribble or dribble entry branches. We also have off-ball movement options where the play can branch depending on which way the offensive player decides to run off of available screens

We are also excited to be the first to offer you plays with nested branching. Traditional play branch options usually only provide the option to branch on the initial pass / no pass opportunity. Nested branching is the key to some of the more advanced offensive options we will discuss as we continue.

Persistent Offense

In most basketball games, it has been relatively easy for a savvy defender to take away your best offensive option by simply fronting or denying your star offensive player the basketball. This leads to the offense being forced to freelance at the end of games when they really should be going with an established play. The limited number of plays and the lack of intelligent teammates has given the defense a decided advantage in key moments.

This year, we developed what we call Persistent Offensive technology. These are key plays that some teams have available for their stars. These plays are identified in your team playbooks with a capital P in the name of the play.

These are highly advanced and resilient plays that anticipate a defender attempting to take your star out of the play. As an example, we will review a play for the Knicks called NYK P 3 Ice High. In this play, Carmelo Anthony posts up on high post extended. If open, the pass is made from the top of the key and Melo has the ball 17 feet from the basket and can either post or face up.

After you run this play a few times, the defense will more than likely adjust. If they front him or play off the passer, you have the option to run a dribble entry. Once the dribble entry option is initiated the PG (Chauncey Billups) runs a Pick and Post with Carmelo. Now you have Chauncey and Carmelo isolated on one side of the floor with Melo having great post position. If the defense is somehow able to deny the post entry pass to Carmelo or if you see a bigger stronger post defender guarding Melo you can initiate another dribble branch towards the top of the key that will make Carmelo give up the post up opportunity and cut to the Wing for the isolation.

Some of the more advanced Persistent Offensive plays can offer you as many as six opportunities to score the basketball within the same play.

Before NBA 2K12, it was only necessary to know the play that was being run to be able to fully shut it down. In NBA2K12 and beyond, knowing is only half the battle. Multiple offensive decision points means a greater interactive experience, be it User vs. Computer or User vs. User. There have been some epic battles going on during this development cycle. User vs. User games have an added strategic layer that makes NBA2K12 a blast to play.

Not every play in the game is as complex as the one mentioned above. There are plenty of simple and effective plays that allow everyone from beginners to seasoned experts an opportunity to channel their inner Phil Jackson.

Another area that benefits greatly from nested branches are alley oop plays. In the past, alley oops were a hit or miss proposition. If the play was well defended, there was rarely any time left on the clock to run another play. With the introduction of nested branching, if the defense takes away the lob, you have another option that flows naturally. Many times the defense’s overreaction to stopping the embarrassing alley oop sets them up perfectly for the counter.

Out of Bounds Plays

It's been awhile since a videogame has treated out of bounds plays with the proper respect. In the NBA, out of bounds plays are a crucial part of either winning or losing a game. In most basketball videogames up to this point, they have been more of an afterthought.

With all of the new options mentioned above, NBA 2K12 looks to change that in a big way. All of the inbounds plays from NBA 2K11 have been destroyed. Some plays have retained the same name but have all-new designs. For the first time in the NBA 2K series, we have authentic NBA out of bounds plays for your gaming enjoyment.

The out of bounds plays range from simple and effective to layered and lethal. The plays for this year’s game were created to fit within the following categories for Baseline and Sideline out of bounds.

Inbound protect / secure ball plays

These are plays were the goal is to get the ball to a specific player if possible usually your best free throw shooter.

Quick 2 plays

These are plays were you need a quick 2 point field goal.

3PT plays

We have plays for when you need a 3 for the tie or win

Post

These are plays were you want to get a post up opportunity

Alley

Some plays give you two alley opportunities. One from the inbounder and another once the ball has been inbounded.

You can call inbound plays from the Quick Play menu (D-Pad Right), or for finite control of play type and targets, choose the Inbounding Play Selection Tab in the Time Out overlay. 

Click here for high resolution

QUICK STRATEGY OPTIONS

NBA 2K12 also offers brand new quick strategy options to the user.  These options, both on offense and on defense, allow the user to quickly adjust their style of play based on their preference and/or game situation.

Offense

These offensive options are tied to individual tendencies and behavior and affect the directives of each player on the team to achieve the approach dictated by the User.

  • Space the Floor – Better spacing from the ballhandler; less running around / no onball screens
  • Screen for Shooters – set up shooters on team to get open using Offball screens
  • Leak Out – Outside player leaks out on shots to get a break going
  • Collapse and Rebound – team attacks the basket for offensive boards
  • Coach Default – resets current active strategy

Click here for high resolution

Defense

This gives the user a quick access to setting up the Defensive Settings on the fly:

  • Pressure Shooters – for opposing players good at med/long range shots; tight onball, deny ball, go over screens, hedge on screens
  • Lock Down Paint – double down in the post for all players, go under screens
  • Focus on Stars – for opposing star players; always double, tight onball, deny ball
  • Constant Pressure – double team on drive for guards, double team in post for bigs, play tight on stars, go over screens, hard hedge
  • Coach Default - resets current active strategy

Click here for high resolution

That about wraps it up - as you can see, a ton of effort has been put into improving the strategic elements of NBA 2K12.  We’ve always longed for a time where an older user can compete against his gaming wiz child and be successful due to his understanding of the game.  NBA 2K12 takes a giant leap forward in achieving that goal.

Also, I hope you caught me on Spike TV this past Thursday night with Geoff Keighley of Game Trailers showing off the first gameplay of NBA 2K12. Hope you enjoy!

- Rob Jones

Gameplay Director


NBA 2K12 Videos
Member Comments
# 241 stillfeelme @ 09/04/11 09:48 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Da_Czar
I remember when I used to be concerned that the cpu wasn't tuff enough or wasn't able to score against too much pressure. But honestly after the heat had me down 26 in the first half the first time I put it on allstar I was like F the cpu... LOL The game was tougher and you can't just say oh it's tougher for this reason or that. It is a combination of things.

Now again after I get the game and play it for awhile then maybe things will be different but as it stood the cpu was no punk and not is a cheese to keep it close way that I could see.
That said I don't feel I should ever be down to the cpu by 26 points on all star.
Man oh man I knew the Gamescom gameplay had to be on Pro. From what I saw the cpu could and should have been abusing some of those players reaching for days. It sounds like the CPU will make you pay until you learn how to stop what they are doing or they go cold. I like what I am hearing Czar tough but no cheese
 
# 242 infam0us @ 09/04/11 09:51 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goffs
yes I know that but I don't know where it begins..I'm not one of those that memorize a few plays as I like to get everyone involved....again you move wrong and the play breaks...
I just don't see how you can run plays playing someone on the same screen without indicating to the other person what the play is. Memorizing is really the only option.
 
# 243 Goffs @ 09/04/11 10:03 PM
look...the arrows got to go is all I'm saying ....I.played live 10 with my brother next to me and I had no trouble running plays since its only indicators....

I just don't like seeing arrows as I find it distracting...small indicators I don't mind....ugh...

jeez doesn't anybody here play against people in person?
 
# 244 KyotoCarl @ 09/04/11 10:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Goffs
look...the arrows got to go is all I'm saying ....I.played live 10 with my brother next to me and I had no trouble running plays since its only indicators....

I just don't like seeing arrows as I find it distracting...small indicators I don't mind....ugh...

jeez doesn't anybody here play against people in person?
I do, but I think learning the plays by heart is the best option.
For me that's fun.


---
I am here: http://maps.google.com/maps?ll=59.335012,18.022366
 
# 245 Goffs @ 09/04/11 10:10 PM
it's good if you sick with one team but I like playing random...that way I can utilize the plays whomever I play with...
 
# 246 tcnumba10 @ 09/04/11 10:33 PM
Many thanks again Da Czar for providing your insights and info on 2K12! Can't wait till the PC release date.

Hopefully we don't have to edit the gameplay sliders too much or change the entire playbook for teams in order to make the game emulate the real NBA.
 
# 247 mutumbo888 @ 09/05/11 07:58 AM
changing D on the fly has cheese written all over it imo. it's already in the game but this takes it even further.

changing D on the fly (all in one possession) is very unrealistic. at max you'd see an Nba team doing a press and a zone but that happens pretty rarely.


I suspect cheesers will be doing something like:

the opponent inbounds --> press FC trap pressure
the opponent passes it into the post --> press Lock Down Paint
the opponent passes it backout to a 3pt shooter --> press Pressure Shooters

that's cheese if you ask me. it becomes not a game of reactions by manually
controlling the players, but a game of "coach" reactions, pressing buttons to have the CPU do all the work for you. it's like in a football game someone called a "run-stop" on the fly play AFTER the snap, and after you see that it's a handoff. ...not realistic.

Nba teams usually stay in the defensive set for the entire possession. it would be almost impossible for the players to collectively react that fast to the coach barking out the play. but in videogames, the players will respond immediately with no consequences.

there should definitely be a limit on how many times you can switch it up in one possession (pref. 2x or less) and that it tires your team out. this has been some undercover cheese that's gone on in
nba2k imo.

that'll be something to watch for when I jump online.

other than that, this should expand the game a lot and the CPU will probably play alot better too.
 
# 248 ffaacc03 @ 09/05/11 09:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutumbo888
changing D on the fly has cheese written all over it imo. it's already in the game but this takes it even further.

changing D on the fly (all in one possession) is very unrealistic. at max you'd see an Nba team doing a press and a zone but that happens pretty rarely.


I suspect cheesers will be doing something like:

the opponent inbounds --> press FC trap pressure
the opponent passes it into the post --> press Lock Down Paint
the opponent passes it backout to a 3pt shooter --> press Pressure Shooters

that's cheese if you ask me. it becomes not a game of reactions by manually
controlling the players, but a game of "coach" reactions, pressing buttons to have the CPU do all the work for you. it's like in a football game someone called a "run-stop" on the fly play AFTER the snap, and after you see that it's a handoff. ...not realistic.

Nba teams usually stay in the defensive set for the entire possession. it would be almost impossible for the players to collectively react that fast to the coach barking out the play. but in videogames, the players will respond immediately with no consequences.

there should definitely be a limit on how many times you can switch it up in one possession (pref. 2x or less) and that it tires your team out. this has been some undercover cheese that's gone on in
nba2k imo.

that'll be something to watch for when I jump online.

other than that, this should expand the game a lot and the CPU will probably play alot better too.
It would be unsim but not sure that would be cheesing (something without a counter, unavoidable, a fault in the system, not ment to be) ... at least if it is done like in 2k11 ... while the players did react to your command, the reaction while inmediate, was not instantly ... this created holes on the defense while the players directed to their new set, therefor creating opportunities (think on it like a player always trying to go for steals and offensive fouls, the defense was in constant scramble) ... then again, beyond its effectiveness, what made me unconfortable was the unsim part and that it forced me to go the route of taking what the defense gave me, instead of stablishing my offensive scheme.

P.S:
I would welcome the stamina hit if multiple sets are run per possesion
 
# 249 Knickerbocker @ 09/05/11 10:05 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutumbo888
changing D on the fly has cheese written all over it imo. it's already in the game but this takes it even further.

changing D on the fly (all in one possession) is very unrealistic. at max you'd see an Nba team doing a press and a zone but that happens pretty rarely.


I suspect cheesers will be doing something like:

the opponent inbounds --> press FC trap pressure
the opponent passes it into the post --> press Lock Down Paint
the opponent passes it backout to a 3pt shooter --> press Pressure Shooters

that's cheese if you ask me. it becomes not a game of reactions by manually
controlling the players, but a game of "coach" reactions, pressing buttons to have the CPU do all the work for you. it's like in a football game someone called a "run-stop" on the fly play AFTER the snap, and after you see that it's a handoff. ...not realistic.

Nba teams usually stay in the defensive set for the entire possession. it would be almost impossible for the players to collectively react that fast to the coach barking out the play. but in videogames, the players will respond immediately with no consequences.

there should definitely be a limit on how many times you can switch it up in one possession (pref. 2x or less) and that it tires your team out. this has been some undercover cheese that's gone on in
nba2k imo.

that'll be something to watch for when I jump online.

other than that, this should expand the game a lot and the CPU will probably play alot better too.
Changing defenses will not only create window of oportunity (open players) but most likely mismatches too (if you go from defending the paint to pressuring the perimeter), so I would welcome anyone to do it in an online match.
 
# 250 stillfeelme @ 09/05/11 10:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutumbo888
changing D on the fly has cheese written all over it imo. it's already in the game but this takes it even further.

changing D on the fly (all in one possession) is very unrealistic. at max you'd see an Nba team doing a press and a zone but that happens pretty rarely.


I suspect cheesers will be doing something like:

the opponent inbounds --> press FC trap pressure
the opponent passes it into the post --> press Lock Down Paint
the opponent passes it backout to a 3pt shooter --> press Pressure Shooters

that's cheese if you ask me. it becomes not a game of reactions by manually.
I don't think it will be cheese because it is a risk and reward for each strategy you select. The defense may win some the offense may win some. You have to know who to foul who to let get theirs and try to shut down the rest of the team.
Defense

This gives the user a quick access to setting up the Defensive Settings on the fly:
  • Pressure Shooters – for opposing players good at med/long range shots; tight onball, deny ball, go over screens, hedge on screens
This is designed to take away the perimeter players, but it leaves your post defense with no help. If you have a good offensive post player you have a one on one matchup. I hope there is a fatigue negative for pressure on high. If 2K gets the on ball defense right for each player example just because you put on ball defense on tight and your player is not a good on the ball defender it should hurt you by selecting this strategy. Think Mike Bibby on Derrick Rose as an example.
  • Lock Down Paint – double down in the post for all players, go under screens
By your example if they switch to this you make the defense pay by kicking the ball back out and take the open jumpshot or you pass it to the open man that doubled off of you. Third option is to split the double team and take the shot anyway may get fouled may make the shot. On the offensive end you would want to space the floor and let your post player work.
  • Focus on Stars – for opposing star players; always double, tight onball, deny ball
This is designed to take the star players out of the game. Again like above you can make the defense pay if you spot the double in the post and know who to pass to. Now if your player is a guard that has the ball in their hand a lot you are trying to get it out of their hand. This may not work if the star can spot the open man that can make a shot, if they miss then it works. This is the type of defense you would try to use on the Bulls IMO, a team with a dominant star and not consistent shooters on the floor.
  • Constant Pressure – double team on drive for guards, double team in post for bigs, play tight on stars, go over screens, hard hedge
Now this one seems to be combining a lot of different things into one strategy. However you can counter this by passing out of the double team. Someone will be open if they are doubling the post and doubling the drives. I actually think there should be some increase in fatigue rate drop for using this one too. This one involves a lot of movement for everybody on your defense to help out.
 
# 251 Matty Aqua @ 09/05/11 10:38 AM
Da Czar - Firstly thank you for answering everybody's questions!...and giving us info that helps us pass time until October release date!...The wait kills me every year!


My only questions at this point of time are - in a match (12 min quarters) are you guys getting realistic stats?...and were there major changes to things like player tendencies to get players to play a certain style?
 
# 252 Da_Czar @ 09/05/11 11:15 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by aquaman
Da Czar - Firstly thank you for answering everybody's questions!...and giving us info that helps us pass time until October release date!...The wait kills me every year!


My only questions at this point of time are - in a match (12 min quarters) are you guys getting realistic stats?...and were there major changes to things like player tendencies to get players to play a certain style?
No problem aquaman. The wait kills me too It's almost worse that I get to play it THEN starve until Oct. ver cruel punishment for a hoop fiend.

The stats were looking very very good in the build I played. Game had a great tempo and pace to it. I can't pinpoint once specific change that made it so.

Also there was something about the player tendencies that just seemed enhanced somehow. I mean melo really played more like himself once he received the ball. The same for other key players. I don't know what they did honestly and I don't recall if there were new tendencies but what was there just seemed to me to work better as far as players playing like themselves.
 
# 253 made in eu @ 09/05/11 02:25 PM
Da Czar, can i ask you please if pre set simulation sliders and real player fg% are still in? And are they improved? Thank you.
 
# 254 mutumbo888 @ 09/05/11 09:28 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by stillfeelme
I don't think it will be cheese because it is a risk and reward for each strategy you select. The defense may win some the offense may win some. You have to know who to foul who to let get theirs and try to shut down the rest of the team.
Defense

This gives the user a quick access to setting up the Defensive Settings on the fly:
  • Pressure Shooters – for opposing players good at med/long range shots; tight onball, deny ball, go over screens, hedge on screens
This is designed to take away the perimeter players, but it leaves your post defense with no help. If you have a good offensive post player you have a one on one matchup. I hope there is a fatigue negative for pressure on high. If 2K gets the on ball defense right for each player example just because you put on ball defense on tight and your player is not a good on the ball defender it should hurt you by selecting this strategy. Think Mike Bibby on Derrick Rose as an example.
  • Lock Down Paint – double down in the post for all players, go under screens
By your example if they switch to this you make the defense pay by kicking the ball back out and take the open jumpshot or you pass it to the open man that doubled off of you. Third option is to split the double team and take the shot anyway may get fouled may make the shot. On the offensive end you would want to space the floor and let your post player work.
  • Focus on Stars – for opposing star players; always double, tight onball, deny ball
This is designed to take the star players out of the game. Again like above you can make the defense pay if you spot the double in the post and know who to pass to. Now if your player is a guard that has the ball in their hand a lot you are trying to get it out of their hand. This may not work if the star can spot the open man that can make a shot, if they miss then it works. This is the type of defense you would try to use on the Bulls IMO, a team with a dominant star and not consistent shooters on the floor.
  • Constant Pressure – double team on drive for guards, double team in post for bigs, play tight on stars, go over screens, hard hedge
Now this one seems to be combining a lot of different things into one strategy. However you can counter this by passing out of the double team. Someone will be open if they are doubling the post and doubling the drives. I actually think there should be some increase in fatigue rate drop for using this one too. This one involves a lot of movement for everybody on your defense to help out.
.



good points. as long as the AI defense doesn't have some godlike response and recovery when switching sets in a possession, and there is a risk to doing it, should be ok.

Idk I'm undecided about how realistic it is to have cpu actions that create a magical pressurization at the push of the button. for example when someone presses 'double team' when someone is about to shoot, it's almost like they really pressed "turbo pressure." even if the 2nd defender isn't there, you get a magical pressure effect simply by pressing the double team button. not entirely saying it shouldn't be in the game, just saying that knowing when to press the double team button shouldn't take precedent over 'on the court' instincts of manually positioning your player, etc.
 
# 255 stillfeelme @ 09/05/11 11:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutumbo888
.



good points. as long as the AI defense doesn't have some godlike response and recovery when switching sets in a possession, and there is a risk to doing it, should be ok.

Idk I'm undecided about how realistic it is to have cpu actions that create a magical pressurization at the push of the button. for example when someone presses 'double team' when someone is about to shoot, it's almost like they really pressed "turbo pressure." even if the 2nd defender isn't there, you get a magical pressure effect simply by pressing the double team button. not entirely saying it shouldn't be in the game, just saying that knowing when to press the double team button shouldn't take precedent over 'on the court' instincts of manually positioning your player, etc.
From what I have been hearing from Da_Czar in this thread the CPU plays real without cheese. I think he was talking about at the All-Star level. There was another preview given by Jr?? in that CBS preview and he was answering some good questions about how realistic the CPU plays. Once you are able to simulate real action without the need to speed up the CPU movement or give the CPU any advantage to keep the score close, then I think we will have a game that comes down to how well we are able to execute. I think this is where 2K is taking it from everything I have read or seen. I don't think it will be like 2K11 where you could see the CPU get a speed burst. I know what you are saying though.
 
# 256 secondcity t @ 09/06/11 12:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutumbo888
changing D on the fly has cheese written all over it imo. it's already in the game but this takes it even further.

changing D on the fly (all in one possession) is very unrealistic. at max you'd see an Nba team doing a press and a zone but that happens pretty rarely.


I suspect cheesers will be doing something like:

the opponent inbounds --> press FC trap pressure
the opponent passes it into the post --> press Lock Down Paint
the opponent passes it backout to a 3pt shooter --> press Pressure Shooters

that's cheese if you ask me. it becomes not a game of reactions by manually
On the same token, people online change their plays to lead pass. There needs to be balance on both sides.
 
# 257 vicente @ 09/06/11 02:18 AM
What's the next insight about? And will there be a presentation insight?
 
# 258 mgrand15 @ 09/06/11 04:04 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutumbo888
changing D on the fly has cheese written all over it imo. it's already in the game but this takes it even further.

changing D on the fly (all in one possession) is very unrealistic. at max you'd see an Nba team doing a press and a zone but that happens pretty rarely.


I suspect cheesers will be doing something like:

the opponent inbounds --> press FC trap pressure
the opponent passes it into the post --> press Lock Down Paint
the opponent passes it backout to a 3pt shooter --> press Pressure Shooters

that's cheese if you ask me. it becomes not a game of reactions by manually
controlling the players, but a game of "coach" reactions, pressing buttons to have the CPU do all the work for you. it's like in a football game someone called a "run-stop" on the fly play AFTER the snap, and after you see that it's a handoff. ...not realistic.

Nba teams usually stay in the defensive set for the entire possession. it would be almost impossible for the players to collectively react that fast to the coach barking out the play. but in videogames, the players will respond immediately with no consequences.
I think you're overreacting a bit and forgetting how fast plays happen. In your hypothetical scenario, the defense wouldn't be able to adjust fast enough, so it wouldn't make sense to constantly change your strategy.

1. Once you break the full court press, the defense is at enough of a disadvantage where you should be be able to get a good look. (at the very least, you'll have a 4 on 3 or something.

2. Assuming you don't score after breaking the press, let's assume you pass it into the post. If opponent decides to lock down the paint, they'll send a double team at your man. You should have an open man somewhere (most likely 3 pt land), so you pass it out to him.

3. If he presses "Pressure Shooters," it's too late because the defense is forced to rotate and they're on their heels. You should have an open shot and if you don't, even with Lockdown Paint on, you'll have a defender flying at you relatively out of control. It won't be hard to pump fake and get past him or just drive right by him. From there, it's all about getting to the rim or finding the open man if the defense rotates in time.

I have to say, I'm loving the offensive updates. I've been dying for a playcall system that had multiple options and really used offensive set type designs instead of just singular plays. For example, NBA teams don't really call plays every time down but there is usually a plan and organization that you don't really get when you freelance in 2K.

Something like, you call "Set A" - from here the PG can either dribble to the left wing or the right wing. If he goes left, the wing player (lets say SG) on the left cuts down and spaces the floor out. Big man on the left posts up and big man on the right flashes high. If you give it to the man posting up, the PF cuts to the rim and everyone just spaces out and plays over.

If you give it to the PF, the C moves towards the middle and tries to post up his man there. If that doesn't work, C clears out of the lane, and the plays dead. If you give it to the wing at the top of the key, you have to swing the ball to the other wing, then the bigs shift over and try to get the ball in the post on the other side.

I would love the option for the PG to dribble to the opposite side in the beginning of the play and trigger the same play but with the different players. So everything would be the same except the C would be flashing high and the PF would be posting up this time. This is just a basic play but I'd love to have the option of really running an offense. Not just singular plays.

Kinda long winded, but I'm ecstatic about this insight especially the inbound plays. Such a small detail that makes a huge difference - especially since there are so many options and strategies behind out of bound plays. (How many times have you gotten stuck inbounding with your best shooter when you needed a 3 with 1 second left )
 
# 259 NINJAK2 @ 09/06/11 04:20 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by mutumbo888
changing D on the fly has cheese written all over it imo. it's already in the game but this takes it even further.

changing D on the fly (all in one possession) is very unrealistic. at max you'd see an Nba team doing a press and a zone but that happens pretty rarely.


I suspect cheesers will be doing something like:

the opponent inbounds --> press FC trap pressure
the opponent passes it into the post --> press Lock Down Paint
the opponent passes it backout to a 3pt shooter --> press Pressure Shooters

that's cheese if you ask me. it becomes not a game of reactions by manually
controlling the players, but a game of "coach" reactions, pressing buttons to have the CPU do all the work for you. it's like in a football game someone called a "run-stop" on the fly play AFTER the snap, and after you see that it's a handoff. ...not realistic.

Nba teams usually stay in the defensive set for the entire possession. it would be almost impossible for the players to collectively react that fast to the coach barking out the play. but in videogames, the players will respond immediately with no consequences.

there should definitely be a limit on how many times you can switch it up in one possession (pref. 2x or less) and that it tires your team out. this has been some undercover cheese that's gone on in
nba2k imo.

that'll be something to watch for when I jump online.

other than that, this should expand the game a lot and the CPU will probably play alot better too.
Maybe these strategies will work similar to the defense, shot selection, rebounding, and (forgot the fourth one) strategy choices during timeouts. In other words once you select a strategy you have to wait for the time of that strategy to elapse before selecting another. If not, hopefully the constant switching of defenses and/or the type of defense selected (ex: constant pressure) will have a bigger effect on fatigue.
 
# 260 guesswhozbak17 @ 09/06/11 02:55 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NINJAK2
Maybe these strategies will work similar to the defense, shot selection, rebounding, and (forgot the fourth one) strategy choices during timeouts. In other words once you select a strategy you have to wait for the time of that strategy to elapse before selecting another. If not, hopefully the constant switching of defenses and/or the type of defense selected (ex: constant pressure) will have a bigger effect on fatigue.
That would be a good idea as well
 


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