NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable - Operation Sports

Feature Article

NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

Submitted on: 09/25/2010 by

1. Best thing in the demo?

Christian McLeod - Kevin Durant's intro movie. While watching this all I could think was, "Why can't Elite actually look like this?" Durant is one of my favorite young talents, so it was nice to see him get a chance to showcase his virtual skills as the game begins.

Steve Bartlett - I'm thinking the same as Christian here. The intro movie with Durant throwing one down is sick. I would have to say that the J. Cole official theme song to NBA Elite is nice, too. I was actually having a good time shooting jumpers in the practice gym while listening to it.

2. Biggest Disappointment?

Christian McLeod - Everything else. Honestly, the last time I was this disappointed in a basketball game was after I played NBA Live 07 for the first time on Xbox 360. I absolutely loved NBA Live 10, and I was extremely excited when I heard about the new physics additions and control scheme. l figured that the solid core of Live 10 would have been kept intact, and these new elements would have been added to that foundation. Boy was I wrong. The controls don't work, the physics are terrible, the graphics are nothing special, and even the ESPN presentation looks to be hastily thrown in.

Steve Bartlett - J. Cole delivers some truth in the chorus of his theme song: "We ain’t on but we try, now holla back and reply." NBA Live is gone. As sim ballers, I think we're all disappointed. There are some remnants of Live left in this NBA Elite title, but I was feeling NBA Live last year. It's interesting to me how EA Sports can put out some quality arcade basketball titles in NBA Street Homecourt and NBA Jam, and then throw up a brick with this title.

3. The gameplay is _______ (fill in the blank).

Christian McLeod - Frustrating. Who thought it would be a good idea to change the default pass button to the right trigger? What's even worse is that there seems to be an extreme amount of lag between when you pull the trigger and when your player actually passes the ball. Dribbling and taking jumpers feels good, but everything else feels like I'm playing a basketball game for the original PlayStation. I had to force myself to play this demo for this article -- even with this in mind I found myself shutting the demo off three or four times in utter disappointment. The gameplay is that bad.

Steve Bartlett - Awkward. Disappointing. Lacking signature style and personality. I do like the creativity behind the controls. Shooting feels nice and fluid on the right stick. I just don't think the rest of the controls make much sense for a basketball title. This title plays into an isolation one-on-one style of game. The teams are not acting in concert out there. The spacing is off. Should I go on?

4. Any other things catch your eye?

Christian McLeod - I really like the idea of the Become Legendary modes, specifically the matchups portion where you need to shut down an opponent. Unfortunately, the demo plays so terrible on the court that I wouldn't even consider investing time into this mode unless I was a complete masochist. Also, defense is downright impossible to play against the CPU. Every attempt I had to man up against my opponent led to the game's clunky physics engine forcing me to overcommit -- or the laggy button commands would cost me a chance at a block.

Steve Bartlett - The Become Legendary mode is straight out of the NBA Street Homecourt campaign mode mixed with a bit of 2K My Player. The hip-hop instrumentals, the presentation and graphics, all of it is done with a dramatic theme. A journey from the streets to the bright lights. It's cool.

5. Overall is Elite's stock up or down?

Christian McLeod - Neither, the stock has completely crashed. If this demo is any indication of the final product, I have a hard time believing the title will garner enough sales to stay alive for NBA Elite 12. Based on the demo, this is quite possibly the worst basketball game I have played this generation. Here's hoping, as a fan of EA hoops, that drastic changes are found in the final build of this game.

Steve Bartlett - The Elite stock is crashing fast. EA's marketing team is the only reason why this game will sell.

NBA Elite 11 Videos

Member Comments

# 61 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 08:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	Perhaps, as others have stated, the level of control you have and the learning curve, means your first experience with the game is radically less authentic than your first experience with a game that gives you less freedom simply because that game restricts you more to be within the confines of authenticity, whereas Elite allows to to venture far off into Wonderland, but also allows you to play an authentic and rewarding game of basketball. Unfortunately most people see Wonderland as their first experience. Another piece of the puzzle perhaps.

I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying here, which is that now that we have so much control, we actually have the power to replicate real basketball, but at the same time, that authenticity isn't going to be "canned" or "given" to us. And we just need to learn how to harness and focus this new control.

That's a nice sentiment but I don't think that's entirely the issue here.

People have also said two other things about the control (and I'm paraphrasing):

1. That it is easy to break the defense down with the ball handler.
2. Shooting is too succesful.

Now I realize some other people may say the exact opposite of that, but in those cases I would say THOSE people are not used to the controls. There are some elite gamers here at OS (honestly, no pun intended) and I think part of the issue here is that their skills were actually pretty severly underrated.

If that's the case, if it's in fact too easy to dribble and shoot, it lends a little more credence to the people who are saying it's basically a 1v1 game with 8 other people running around.

I guess my point then is: if, to get real basketball, we gamers have to "dumb-down" if we have to that greatly cap our own skills, then it's not going to be very fun... If we're the one's that have to "remain within the confines of authenticity" then does that also translate to NBA Jam? Should I ask that they stick 8 more guys on that court and only take open jump shots and try not to jump from the 3PT line to dunk it? Sorry to be so sarcastic all of a sudden, but if the intention of the game was to give us so much control that we ourselves have to "keep it real" then I think someone, somewhere, severely misunderstood something extremely important.

# 62 Live_4real @ 09/25/10 08:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	Top part of that; yes it's true, this isn't their first rodeo. I'd venture to guess the knowledge of the game of basketball is alive a well in the minds of the team over at EA. But for all intents and purposes (just as the name implies) things are completely new. I would imagine the pressure to put a game out every year is the reason they put this out at all. That starts at the top. If you asked the dev team and their were allowed to be frank with us, I bet they'd say they'd liked to have had another year or maybe even two, to get this game ready for us. The bottom part; I want to separate two very distinct aspects of what you're talking about here. A sim baller doesn't necessarily need LBJ to look like LBJ or shoot like LBJ. Undeniably, it makes the emersion much greater. But at the heart of things, what a sim baller needs is for whatever avatar on screen representing LBJ, to DO what LBJ can do, and not do what he can't. I don't want to see him shooting better from 3 than Eddie House. I don't care if he's a super star. I don't want to see him ever effectively execute a post move. I want to see the dude pass like he can see the future like Nick Cage from "Next" and just in general be more physically gifted than every other person around him. I don't need a v-player to look or move like their real life counter part. I just need to say, "OK this is how the real LBJ is succesful, so baring my ability to properly cultivate similar opportunities and execute, I should be succesful that way too."

Yeah, that is what I tried to say...

That guy that is representing LBJ, should have the abilities that the real dude has, he should feel like LBJ...

The signature stuff is a plus, what it should not happen is seeing LBJ being stopped in a fast-break because Derek Fisher was quicker then him.

But for me that this a problem that Live has had for years.

RATINGS RATINGS RATINGS

For players to play like the real life counter parts, the ratings HAVE to be precise, and actually all of them should have an impact on the gameplay.

Of course the visual part of seeing LBJ shoot like LBJ is more important for some then is for others, but we can agree that for the b-ball heads this is important also

PeAcE

# 63 Kaanyr Vhok @ 09/25/10 08:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	So are you upset about the way it was marketed, or about the game itself? You seem more upset about the marketing, which I can kind of understand, although I was extremely open about what we were delivering and never claimed anything like backbreaker. But let's get to the heart of the problem in the game itself. And thanks for helping out.

From a gameplay persepctive I'm disapointed because its not balanced.

If weird spatic collisions are the penalty for stamping out clipping I would be ok if there werent already so many weird animations.

The game doesnt read the contact. I'm happy with some no calls. Far too many in Elite though. Obvious fouls are registered as blocks.

While I wasnt at all expecting something like Backbreaker I was hoping that you had some sort of real time animation system for players that get knocked down. Whenever someone goes down it looks scripted. The system doesnt register the real hard stuff. If it did you would at least have a bunch of youtube videos of people colliding. Stern might have a fit lol.

I dont blame EA for the marketing. My issue is with the cosumer that values it just for the sake of it being there which sends a message that all you need to do is talk about something. It doesnt have to really work well at all. While at the same time you have Backbreaker with a realtime animation and physics system that works well.

so use euphoria

# 64 convince @ 09/25/10 08:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	OK, like you said nothing new there. I play and watch basketball, I get it. The part I'm still struggling with is why people don't see these things in Elite when I do. I'll admit to having not played against the CPU very much this year, but I played many a game against Connor, and the way I'd win or play defense is exactly as you describe. I'm not saying that in defense of the game or to change anyone's mind, but simply as an observation and explanation of why I'm struggling with the feedback. Perhaps, as others have stated, the level of control you have and the learning curve, means your first experience with the game is radically less authentic than your first experience with a game that gives you less freedom simply because that game restricts you more to be within the confines of authenticity, whereas Elite allows to to venture far off into Wonderland, but also allows you to play an authentic and rewarding game of basketball. Unfortunately most people see Wonderland as their first experience. Another piece of the puzzle perhaps.

With all due respect, I think you are well aware of the flaws in your CPU/AI. You continue to pick and choose which post to respond to and that's your right to do so. But please don't don't try to throw the wool over our eyes, like you weren't aware of these issues. I post numerous times, even before the demo dropped asking you to post video of and CPU/AI ran offense that's not the Thunder.(Check my posts if you don't believe me) I even mention the Suns and Spurs as choices. Now you saying that you didn't play against the CPU much. Is that not an aspect of your game that you have to make sure is up to par? I really found that statement hard to believe. Another thing hard to believe. For example, like the quote below.

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	OK, this makes a lot of sense to me if it's true. Unfortunately there's not a whole lot that can be done about it at this point, and it means that extracting objective feedback is going to be extremely difficult. It does explain why some people are not giving profound reasons for the dislike, and it keeps coming back to the fact that it didn't build off live, or it didn't come from the community.

You should be well aware of this point. This point that Live 10 seems to be better than Elite 11, was beaten to death. And there a tons of profound reason for the dislike. Let's say you knock the controls out the park. There is more to a game than control. Your game lacks, individuality/Signature, it lacks realistic AI/CPU ran offense, verticals as mention before are way too high, but you mention why this one done, but it is still a problem. When it comes to shooting, i don't think ratings play no part at all, I shouldn't be able to go 8/10 from 3 with Gasol b/c i have his release point down. And I'm sure you are aware Bynum doesn't have handles like D. Rose but he has the ability to all the dribbles moves in the game. This is weird b/c i remember the diary you guys released showing Bynum losing the ball when doing a behind the back move, yet it doesn't happen in the demo, at least it doesn't happen to me.

And finally http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Xxb6L8vV614

Don't worry i wont post again b/c like someone mention before, I think we are beating a dead horse.

# 65 Kaanyr Vhok @ 09/25/10 08:47 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ccoaxum


	i totally disagree with yall review but everybody have their own opinion, and every like different things. An the person who said that you can dribble with any body on the game like their a pg, is a lie you can not dribble the ball with your center like a pg, hack he will lose control of the ball and they dribble slower then a pg at that. To make it worse on that comment, EA put a video out on that exaxt situation with Andrew Bynum trying to dribble on the game. smh...this game is clearly not for everyone and they said from way b4 the game came out that this game wasn't going to be for everyone, hack some the ppl on here, not calling names but the ones who went to that event at the beach said it themselves that this game was not going to be for everyone. An just because good bit of ppl(lol which is alot not going to lie) don't like dose not mean the game is not good. If thats the case no game in the world is could because every game have that group ppl who do not like a certain game that another person might like. 2k 11 demo is good but they didn't put enough out, but i did like the gameplay, Elite 11 need to work on certain things but i love it and once i got use to the controls, honestly i'm having alot of fun with it. I'm getting both games but for different reason for each.

This is what they are talking about with the dribbling. Bigs shouldn't even be able to handle like that on a lower level. Lower levels should be for a lesser challenge not a lesser game.

# 66 23 @ 09/25/10 08:50 PM

That video is crazy.

Thats exactly why this rountable discussion went down, but its not like it matters because Apex is not the outside gamer either. His hardcore nitpicking doesnt matter.

# 67 jrich730 @ 09/25/10 08:53 PM

The drastic changes through me through a loop at first because like others live 10 seemed to be on the path so i wrote the game off. I finally sat and played it and found some endearing qualities in the game until kobe jab stepped into a dunk from outside the post on 2 people but i still started to like the game a bit after getting a feel for the controls.

Heres my opinion if you have 1989 ford station wagon that runs great you still will want something that looks better. I don't like the spastic like movements of the collisions they look unnatural to me.In nhl 11 the checks are not as fluid but i find myself not really following that once the puck is moved i'm now following it. But in basketball you are watching the whole play because when there is contact the play is almost over.

I don't like how the jersey numbers glow, or how the players move, or how the vibrant colors from live 10 are gone. I know that graphics were not a focal point but how do you expect a person to go and buy a something they have to sit and look at for hours and they don't like what they see. I wouldn't recommend sacrificing game play for graphics but all i needed was a upgraded franchise and some corrections to live 10s problems and i was back for 11 not so much now.

# 68 ccoaxum @ 09/25/10 08:53 PM

the controls is not the problem, if any really think the controls is the reason they don't like the game then they just need to take more time with the game or just don't get the game. The problem is tho, the players awarness on d-fense and how they play as a team. The problem is the way the players move on the game, how the players don't out run each other when they need to, this is big since you don't have a turbo button so rEAnimator please fix that in the patch 2. The problem is that people are feeling a huge difference when they dribble, block, steal,shooting when they play the game. ( that's to a certain extent, cause some areas you can feel difference in my opinion. other then the graphics as in the skin texture, cause they look like themselves but look like cartoons but other then that i live game, and not saying everyone should too but just saying some ppl should critique the game the right way.(like it or not)

# 69 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 08:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Zen_Master07


	Trust me, the new controls are not worth a whole years development cycle

Well they're definitely not worth a full year's development cycle if they scrap it...

It seems to me they've definitely got some great ideas at the core of the game. Look no further than people's reaction to the idea of total control and RTP. No, there's definitely an interest in that from the gaming community it's just that the technology is still in it's infancy. No they made this choice, and it wasn't necessarily a bad one at all. These innovations, particularly the RTP, needed to happen eventually. Separating the legs from the arms needed to be done. Totally with that. But the reality is, while I understand their motivation for doing it, as a consumer I'm just not going to buy this product. That doesn't mean we shouldn't help make it better. haha I mean for flocks sake let's not pretend that their ultimate goal is something other than to please us. I'm not gonna buy it this time 'round but I am gonna do what I can to help make it better next time 'round.

# 70 23 @ 09/25/10 09:00 PM

That technology is not new FYI.

If it wasnt shoved down your throat like a hot twinkie then you wouldnt even know about it

# 71 striker3771 @ 09/25/10 09:00 PM

That video pretty much proves that once you've mastered th controls, you can do unrealistic things like it was shown in the hook shot glitch thread. Regardless of what the devs says, I have a hard time believing that the hook shot glitch could be fixed. Which will make online gaming unplayable.

# 72 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 09:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	That technology is not new FYI.

If that's in response to my post:

Real time physics is not new. RTP in a basketball game is new. It's not like they can take Half-Life's physics engine and plunk it in a basketball game and start drawing up the graphics. They can't take Backbreaker and take the pads off the players and make the ball rounder and say, OK, we're good on the physics, lets start adding decals to the stadiums.

RTP is new for them.

If it's not in response to my post... well, it's still relevant. haha

# 73 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 09:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	Perhaps, as others have stated, the level of control you have and the learning curve, means your first experience with the game is radically less authentic than your first experience with a game that gives you less freedom simply because that game restricts you more to be within the confines of authenticity, whereas Elite allows to to venture far off into Wonderland, but also allows you to play an authentic and rewarding game of basketball. Unfortunately most people see Wonderland as their first experience. Another piece of the puzzle perhaps.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	I'm pretty sure I understand what you're saying here, which is that now that we have so much control, we actually have the power to replicate real basketball, but at the same time, that authenticity isn't going to be "canned" or "given" to us. And we just need to learn how to harness and focus this new control. That's a nice sentiment but I don't think that's entirely the issue here. People have also said two other things about the control (and I'm paraphrasing): 1. That it is easy to break the defense down with the ball handler. 2. Shooting is too succesful. Now I realize some other people may say the exact opposite of that, but in those cases I would say THOSE people are not used to the controls. There are some elite gamers here at OS (honestly, no pun intended) and I think part of the issue here is that their skills were actually pretty severly underrated. If that's the case, if it's in fact too easy to dribble and shoot, it lends a little more credence to the people who are saying it's basically a 1v1 game with 8 other people running around. I guess my point then is: if, to get real basketball, we gamers have to "dumb-down" if we have to that greatly cap our own skills, then it's not going to be very fun... If we're the one's that have to "remain within the confines of authenticity" then does that also translate to NBA Jam? Should I ask that they stick 8 more guys on that court and only take open jump shots and try not to jump from the 3PT line to dunk it? Sorry to be so sarcastic all of a sudden, but if the intention of the game was to give us so much control that we ourselves have to "keep it real" then I think someone, somewhere, severely misunderstood something extremely important.

rEAnimator listen nobody's typing in blood here haha, I mean I understand it's possible to mispeak and for someone to take one or two sentences you say and to run out of control with it but please, tell me, did I misunderstand something above? I mean, I feel like I unexpectedly landed on some seriously poingant perspectives here. Was the intention of Elite to give us so much control that it was up to us to make it sim? I mean, that's ok, obviously. Czar said on a recent radio show that he felt like it was clear EA was moving in a different direction than sim balling. Maybe thats the case. But if it's not and I'm misunderstanding I seriously want to be straightened out haha.

# 74 23 @ 09/25/10 09:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	If that's in response to my post: Real time physics is not new. RTP in a basketball game is new. It's not like they can take Half-Life's physics engine and plunk it in a basketball game and start drawing up the graphics. They can't take Backbreaker and take the pads off the players and make the ball rounder and say, OK, we're good on the physics, lets start adding decals to the stadiums. RTP is new for them. If it's not in response to my post... well, it's still relevant. haha

Thats false as well

# 75 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 09:16 PM

Ok never mind that last post is rife with political limitations for you haha. Let me go about that a different way. Are future iterations of Elite likely to continue with RTP and continue to give players control of dribbling and shooting, but also put stricter limitations on the success of those systems?

Some of us gamers are... really good. And while the game needs to somehow translate the skill of playing real basketball to the skill of manipulating a controller, there needs to be a very fine line where there's still room for us gamers to make mistakes. We're too good for this control scheme. If we are to have this much control, it needs to be easier for us to make mistakes. Real basketball players make mistakes. But what they do is so much more difficult than what we need to do in a basketball video game.

# 76 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Thats false as well

It's not that I don't believe you. Clearly I'm just not aware of any. It would be helpful if you perhaps provided some background information on the matter...

Sufice it to say. It's new to EAs basketball franchise. And since stealing is illegal, they can't just take someone else's system.

# 77 23 @ 09/25/10 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	It's not that I don't believe you. Clearly I'm just not aware of any. It would be helpful if you perhaps provided some background information on the matter... Sufice it to say. It's new to EAs basketball franchise. And since stealing is illegal, they can't just take someone else's system.

Honestly man, I dont even care to get into it all, but thats just how its been marketed but thats besides the point.

Its not new tech is all i was saying

# 78 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 09:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Honestly man, I dont even care to get into it all, but thats just how its been marketed but thats besides the point. Its not new tech is all i was saying

Aight no doubt, I'm with ya. I guess all I was saying though, is that it's not like they've been working on this for years. They started over, and therefor it's going to feel a little underdeveloped.

# 79 23 @ 09/25/10 09:28 PM

Well im not a fan of killing the whole game just to add more of what you already had in controls and genreally ignore other important aspects of the game. Underdeveloped isnt even the word.

# 80 scatman @ 09/25/10 09:32 PM

I'm annoyed by some people who write that no one is giving this game a chance to succeed. It won't succeed even if you were a master at these controls. No one is mad at the ldea to go to RTP....just its implementation. The graphics are really subpar and I was one who thought last years was bad, these graphics (Elite 11) make last years games (both 2k and Live 10) look amazing. The movement, the functionality, the animations...everything looks just doesn't have the feel of a finished product. And to say that people aren't giving this game a chance, by all means you give this game every chance you want, me and the rest of the sim ballers will be playing the game that matters this year.

« Previous 1 2 345 6 7 8 Next »

More Links