NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable - Operation Sports

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NBA Elite 11 Demo Roundtable

Submitted on: 09/25/2010 by

1. Best thing in the demo?

Christian McLeod - Kevin Durant's intro movie. While watching this all I could think was, "Why can't Elite actually look like this?" Durant is one of my favorite young talents, so it was nice to see him get a chance to showcase his virtual skills as the game begins.

Steve Bartlett - I'm thinking the same as Christian here. The intro movie with Durant throwing one down is sick. I would have to say that the J. Cole official theme song to NBA Elite is nice, too. I was actually having a good time shooting jumpers in the practice gym while listening to it.

2. Biggest Disappointment?

Christian McLeod - Everything else. Honestly, the last time I was this disappointed in a basketball game was after I played NBA Live 07 for the first time on Xbox 360. I absolutely loved NBA Live 10, and I was extremely excited when I heard about the new physics additions and control scheme. l figured that the solid core of Live 10 would have been kept intact, and these new elements would have been added to that foundation. Boy was I wrong. The controls don't work, the physics are terrible, the graphics are nothing special, and even the ESPN presentation looks to be hastily thrown in.

Steve Bartlett - J. Cole delivers some truth in the chorus of his theme song: "We ain’t on but we try, now holla back and reply." NBA Live is gone. As sim ballers, I think we're all disappointed. There are some remnants of Live left in this NBA Elite title, but I was feeling NBA Live last year. It's interesting to me how EA Sports can put out some quality arcade basketball titles in NBA Street Homecourt and NBA Jam, and then throw up a brick with this title.

3. The gameplay is _______ (fill in the blank).

Christian McLeod - Frustrating. Who thought it would be a good idea to change the default pass button to the right trigger? What's even worse is that there seems to be an extreme amount of lag between when you pull the trigger and when your player actually passes the ball. Dribbling and taking jumpers feels good, but everything else feels like I'm playing a basketball game for the original PlayStation. I had to force myself to play this demo for this article -- even with this in mind I found myself shutting the demo off three or four times in utter disappointment. The gameplay is that bad.

Steve Bartlett - Awkward. Disappointing. Lacking signature style and personality. I do like the creativity behind the controls. Shooting feels nice and fluid on the right stick. I just don't think the rest of the controls make much sense for a basketball title. This title plays into an isolation one-on-one style of game. The teams are not acting in concert out there. The spacing is off. Should I go on?

4. Any other things catch your eye?

Christian McLeod - I really like the idea of the Become Legendary modes, specifically the matchups portion where you need to shut down an opponent. Unfortunately, the demo plays so terrible on the court that I wouldn't even consider investing time into this mode unless I was a complete masochist. Also, defense is downright impossible to play against the CPU. Every attempt I had to man up against my opponent led to the game's clunky physics engine forcing me to overcommit -- or the laggy button commands would cost me a chance at a block.

Steve Bartlett - The Become Legendary mode is straight out of the NBA Street Homecourt campaign mode mixed with a bit of 2K My Player. The hip-hop instrumentals, the presentation and graphics, all of it is done with a dramatic theme. A journey from the streets to the bright lights. It's cool.

5. Overall is Elite's stock up or down?

Christian McLeod - Neither, the stock has completely crashed. If this demo is any indication of the final product, I have a hard time believing the title will garner enough sales to stay alive for NBA Elite 12. Based on the demo, this is quite possibly the worst basketball game I have played this generation. Here's hoping, as a fan of EA hoops, that drastic changes are found in the final build of this game.

Steve Bartlett - The Elite stock is crashing fast. EA's marketing team is the only reason why this game will sell.

NBA Elite 11 Videos

Member Comments

# 21 Behindshadows @ 09/25/10 05:12 PM

Love this, thanks for posting for the most part. I agreed with everything. My full blog is coming after the Cowboys game, had to do a lot of research and a lot of videos to bring it too life.

Chris and Stevie B...great job.

# 22 RayDog253 @ 09/25/10 05:13 PM

I'm fine with the passing. It was weird at first but I got used to it.

I guess these guys just need to work on their "Trigger Finger"(I play alot of FPS's).

# 23 10yard-Fight @ 09/25/10 05:20 PM

j. cole track is certainly a positive aspect of the demo

live 10 demo was way better. it actually convinced me to BUY THE GAME.

# 24 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 05:20 PM

Can I do a roundtable of my own? And answer the same questions?

Best thing about the demo?
I didn't mind being on the practice court with my never-to-be-legendary-player-because-i'll-never-spend-the-time-gettin-him-there. I had a good time playing around with the controls, honestly. They felt responsive enough at the time that I was looking forward to a 5v5 game.

Biggest Disapointment?
There's a lot of problems with games. Life is complicated, afterall. It's hard to emulate. I actually haven't been playing both series for years and years. I love basketball, play it all the time, but never enjoyed basketball games. I came back last year and really enjoyed both games (2K more so). I can overlook sliding feet and canned animations and bad graphics and ball warping and limbs going through peoples heads. Honestly, I don't get too bothered by all that. Instead I enjoyed the two games last year, and won't enjoy Elite 11 this year because of one simple idea; That you are successful in the game for playing it like a real basketball game. That EA is so far from that mark is the biggest disappointment.

The gameplay is ______ ?
...where basketball games were at 9 years ago.

Caught my eye?
Pau Gasol looking worse in this game than he does in real life. (yes, of course I'm a Celtics fan)

EAs stock up or down?
Obvious. The bigger picture here might be the impact on 2Ks stock. By comparison, 2K looks like the Sistine Chapel of basketball games. Competition is critical to progress. That's evolution in a nutshell. The concern now is, with 2K having no competition (at least for a minimum of what, 3 years? before EA can build on this new core [assuming they're still around]) are they able to maintain they're edge and stay vigilent in their desire to improve.

# 25 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 05:29 PM

It's easier to stay the same. Not to get all dramatic but it's true in business, and society and everywhere else. Familiar is easier. New is scary.
I think the change of the name is being undervalued. We have been told from the very start that all of this is a reboot. If we look at reasoning you really have to be honest and say, real-time physics is eventually going to be a must in sports games. EAs been working hard to keep up but doing it with a system that at it's very core couldn't compete. At some point they needed to bite the bullet and start over and they gave us ample warning of that.

I've heard people on youtube say "why did they release this demo? they could have gotten more people to buy it if they hadn't."
Really? And if you got blind sided buy this game AFTER you dropped $60 on it you'd be happier?

Listen, these people aren't stupid, despite what so many are saying. They knew they were starting over, and that it was going to be ugly. Much respect to them for pullin the trigger and doing it, AND not suckering us into it. Thank you for this demo EA. I'm not gonna buy your game this year, but it's nothing personal. You can bet that I'll be followin, and a few years from now I'll be back because you guys were stand up enough to tell it like it is.

Interesting side note: In 3, maybe 4 years, when 2K has to make the inevitable leap to real-time physics, who do you think is gonna be ahead then??

# 26 scottyp180 @ 09/25/10 05:48 PM

I'm curious the few people who like the game do you actually think the control is that much better than any other basketball game? Because to me the controls are far from revolutionary. I'm not saying that they are bad but when you pride your game on controls they better blow people away, and simply put they don't live up to the hype.

Not to mention the physics engine that was suppose to make the game look and play more realistically is terrible. 2k11's animations and collision looks better than Elite and they have no physics engine. And I just gotta laugh at the rocket dunks, I know they are suppose to be fixed for the retail version but how in the world did they manage to into the demo build without anyone from EA thinking "Hmm something here just doesn't seem right." To me that's when you know the game is either very under developed or just in the wrong hands.

Elite is fun because its a game that you can pick up, spend a half hour TOPS figuring out the controls and you'll be able to dominate. It doesn't encourage you to play real basketball, you can pull up 3 pointers all day and hit 80% of them. Even if you try to play the game like basketball should be played it doesn't make the game any better. Sorry for the long post but because the disappointment around this game I can't help but rant about its flaws/

# 27 Dazraz @ 09/25/10 06:09 PM

NBA Elite looks so bad it's almost beyond discussion. When a game is fundamentally sound you can often get quite deep in conversation regarding little tweaks & modifications that could improve the overall experience. When you get a game this bad you just want to ditch it & look elsewhere.

# 28 oo7Soxs @ 09/25/10 06:22 PM

The best part of the game is the unplayable part. WOW.

# 29 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/25/10 06:29 PM

Pretty short sighted in my opinion. It takes some work, but once I got the controls down, I could do the moves I want to do, with no problem

# 30 McNulty @ 09/25/10 06:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31


	I could do the moves I want to do, with no problem

That's part of the problem, unfortunately. The LIVE series, even though it faltered in this sense as well, limited what moves you could make when the situation did not call for it. ELITE, on the other hand, grants the user too much control and that leads to these herkey jerkey animations that the roundtable and the responses to it have routinely commented on.

# 31 sportyguyfl31 @ 09/25/10 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McNulty


	That's part of the problem, unfortunately. The LIVE series, even though it faltered in this sense as well, limited what moves you could make when the situation did not call for it. ELITE, on the other hand, grants the user too much control and that leads to these herkey jerkey animations that the roundtable and the responses to it have routinely commented on.

This is nonsense.

Jack up the difficulty, and try to just freestyle your way around the court, or hop/euro/gather in traffic.

IF you do a move, out of context, it SHOULD look bad. That's the price for not knowing what you are doing.

There isnt a single basketball move in this game that you cannot perform.

Its up to you to input it, and do it in the right context, and if you fail, its your own fault.

I'm pretty much convinced that there are a few posters who havent played a single second of the demo, and are just parroting what they read, or see in a youtube video, without learning the game for themselves.

# 32 Fngb3 @ 09/25/10 06:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	That's the exact reason we did it. Having pass on release is so you can have more say on who the pass goes to (near or far player when they are both at the same angle from you). The freestyle pass gives you a quicker pass doesn't it?

That's interesting I hadn't honestly noticed that it had an effect on who the pass was made to if two teamates were along the same tragectory. Are you saying the length that you hold the trigger determines whether it goes to the near guy or far guy, or are you saying by not passing until you actually release it gives you more time to adjust the left stick yourself until the icon for the person you're passing to is under the player you'd like?

# 33 dtq @ 09/25/10 06:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	It's easier to stay the same. Not to get all dramatic but it's true in business, and society and everywhere else. Familiar is easier. New is scary. I think the change of the name is being undervalued. We have been told from the very start that all of this is a reboot. If we look at reasoning you really have to be honest and say, real-time physics is eventually going to be a must in sports games. EAs been working hard to keep up but doing it with a system that at it's very core couldn't compete. At some point they needed to bite the bullet and start over and they gave us ample warning of that. I've heard people on youtube say "why did they release this demo? they could have gotten more people to buy it if they hadn't." Really? And if you got blind sided buy this game AFTER you dropped $60 on it you'd be happier? Listen, these people aren't stupid, despite what so many are saying. They new they were starting over, and that it was going to be ugly. Much respect to them for pullin the trigger and doing it, AND not suckering us into it. Thank you for this demo EA. I'm not gonna buy your game this year, but it's nothing personal. You can bet that I'll be followin, and a few years from now I'll be back because you guys were stand up enough to tell it like it is. Interesting side note: In 3, maybe 4 years, when 2K has to make the inevitable leap to real-time physics, who do you think is gonna be ahead then??

You assumed that the result, when 2K does make the move to real physics, is going to be as atrocious as EA's offering this year. 2K has a history of listening to their fan-base so much more than EA ever had. Beside, I doubt they would stay idle if they know that the future is going to be where real-time physics is; there is such a thing called being proactive.

# 34 McNulty @ 09/25/10 07:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by sportyguyfl31


	This is nonsense. Jack up the difficulty, and try to just freestyle your way around the court, or hop/euro/gather in traffic. IF you do a move, out of context, it SHOULD look bad. That's the price for not knowing what you are doing. There isnt a single basketball move in this game that you cannot perform. Its up to you to input it, and do it in the right context, and if you fail, its your own fault. I'm pretty much convinced that there are a few posters who havent played a single second of the demo, and are just parroting what they read, or see in a youtube video, without learning the game for themselves.

I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but, uhhh...no.

On higher difficulties, yes, the ability to make dribble moves is compromised. But think about that for a second- the game's strength is admittedly, on your end, based on control. If that is taken away from the user, what does the game fall back on then? The CPU AI? The non-existant turbo button? Really, the only way to survive on higher difficulties in this game is to run screens until you find an opening, and, well, that's pretty much it. Because, ultimately, as mentioned in the roundtable, ELITE almost relies on one-on-one basketball dynamics, and when those abilities are taken away by racheting up difficulty, then you have problems.

And even if one were to grant you your argument, on whatever difficulty you so desire, the animations are mediocre are best.

# 35 rEAnimator @ 09/25/10 07:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Fngb3


	That's interesting I hadn't honestly noticed that it had an effect on who the pass was made to if two teamates were along the same tragectory. Are you saying the length that you hold the trigger determines whether it goes to the near guy or far guy, or are you saying by not passing until you actually release it gives you more time to adjust the left stick yourself until the icon for the person you're passing to is under the player you'd like?

Both, although the power thing was the reason for it, and the aiming thing was an added bonus.

# 36 rEAnimator @ 09/25/10 07:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by McNulty


	I wish I could share your enthusiasm, but, uhhh...no. On higher difficulties, yes, the ability to make dribble moves is compromised. But think about that for a second- the game's strength is admittedly, on your end, based on control. If that is taken away from the user, what does the game fall back on then? The CPU AI? The non-existant turbo button? Really, the only way to survive on higher difficulties in this game is to run screens until you find an opening, and, well, that's pretty much it. Because, ultimately, as mentioned in the roundtable, ELITE almost relies on one-on-one basketball dynamics, and when those abilities are taken away by racheting up difficulty, then you have problems. And even if one were to grant you your argument, on whatever difficulty you so desire, the animations are mediocre are best.

I'd like to know a bit more about your opinion on this.

You said it's built around one on one dynamics.

What 5v5 dynamics do you feel are missing?

# 37 Eski33 @ 09/25/10 07:50 PM

I think as a simulation, this game isn't it. However, I do think that the game can offer a different yet entertaining experience. NBA Live 06 and 07 were downright unplayable. This game, although more of an arcade game, is still playable and can be enjoyable by those that don't sit down and look for every flaw.

# 38 jr2424 @ 09/25/10 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	I'd like to know a bit more about your opinion on this. You said it's built around one on one dynamics. What 5v5 dynamics do you feel are missing?

I think the biggest aspect that can help the 5v5 play (besides all the things that have been discussed in detail) is the passing. Not the control but the crispness of the passes. Still feel loopy to me. If the passes were more crisp, then it could shift the defense more and make defenders have to rotate quicker to open shooters. Could add another element of strategy.

# 39 rEAnimator @ 09/25/10 08:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jr2424


	I think the biggest aspect that can help the 5v5 play (besides all the things that have been discussed in detail) is the passing. Not the control but the crispness of the passes. Still feel loopy to me. If the passes were more crisp, then it could shift the defense more and make defenders have to rotate quicker to open shooters. Could add another element of strategy.

You know, I hear you and that's something that could easily be patched.

But I get the sense that that's not the thing that's going to win over everyone on OS.

I'm having a hard time figuring out what the biggest problem people have with the game is.

Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table?

The specific things people bring up seem fair and accurate, but I can't figure out why the reaction is so bad.

And I need to. It's part of my job.

I went back and played the game, and there are rough edges, but I just don't see where the extreme negativity is coming from.

I don't want to argue or debate it, I want to understand it.

That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

# 40 yellowboy91 @ 09/25/10 08:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rEAnimator


	You know, I hear you and that's something that could easily be patched. But I get the sense that that's not the thing that's going to win over everyone on OS. I'm having a hard time figuring out what the biggest problem people have with the game is. Why are we getting such a sky is falling, doom and gloom, worst sports game ever reaction from people, like in this round table? The specific things people bring up seem fair and accurate, but I can't figure out why the reaction is so bad. And I need to. It's part of my job. I went back and played the game, and there are rough edges, but I just don't see where the extreme negativity is coming from. I don't want to argue or debate it, I want to understand it. That's why I asked what 5v5 dynamics were missing in response to that previous post. I can't think of any.

these are 3 links why and these arent even the main thing
http://www.pastapadre.com/2010/09/25/nba-elite-11-hook-shot-exploit
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FLPGDyE5pEE
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6z2bAuZio_8&feature=player_embedded

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