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MLB The Show 16 News Post


If you've been on Twitter lately, you've no doubt been seeing Ramone Russell answer fans inquiries about why they were banned over the past couple of days.

Over the weekend, Ramone also posted in the SCEA Forums reiterating that breaking the rules and standards of the community could result in a console and PSN ID being banned.

Quote:
"If a player is found cheating, exploiting, harassing other players, or breaking the rules in game or here on The Show Nation forums, we will suspend the account for a limited time or even permanently ban the ID and console.

This isn't new and we've always been on the lookout for these types of players, but it's important to remind the community of the potential consequences that may await players if they decide to travel down the dark path."

Also of note via TheShowNation (Victor_SDS)

Quote:
There was an exploit related to cancelling transactions on the marketplace. If someone took advantage of this exploit egregiously, their ID would have been flagged and banned. Flipping cards on the market is not an offense. Buying and quick selling is not an offense. It had more process than just cancelling an order.

A number of players were banned in the past few days according to Ramone's Twitter Feed:

"We banned a number of users who exploited community market transactions. Bans will not be reversed, fyi flipping cards IS NOT an exploit.

Flipping cards doesn't get you banned, we encourage flipped cards, flipping cards is good for everyone."


Several users were quick to claim innocence but it appears Russell came armed with info, telling at least one user they were in the top 1% of offenders of the glitch. In fact, the SCEA investigation into the matter was three weeks long and involved multiple runs and checks of the same data.

This was a bold move by SCEA to protect the online gaming experience for many MLB The Show users. While bans are nothing new in the online gaming world, it does appear SCEA has taken some pretty dramatic steps in order to safeguard the online experience for gamers. While some of the bans are permanent, others are temporary and will last anywhere from days to weeks to months.

What do you think of the bans? Was SCEA right? Is this a good move?

UPDATE (6-30): via Twitter

Quote:
We hear your concerns. This is very important to us. We are looking into it. We thank you for your patience. More to come soon.

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Member Comments
# 61 NKRDIBL @ 06/29/16 01:40 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Sandule
Why would I report a loophole. They don't pay me to test for bugs. Maybe some people like to work for free but I don't. If their testers can't find them that's SCEA's problem not mine. Corporations continuously exploit people and situations and they have no issues with it, in fact when they do it it's called competitive advantage! But when the tables are turned all of a sudden they start using the word criminal. I find it hilarious. I didn't personally use the exploit because I didn't know about it, but I paid money for a game and if that game I received has an exploit, then I will use it as that is what I paid for. Again, it's their fault, not mine.
It's SDS's product. If you feel like they're taking advantage of you. Play a different game. Noone has a gun to your head.


Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
 
# 62 oski96 @ 06/29/16 02:00 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskins04
In the video game world, you will NEVER win the "it's the company's fault for making an exploitable game" argument. You're about 15-20 years too late bro.

It does not matter if the company has glitches in the game. If you KNOWINGLY exploit them, then you (the player) are at fault and it's stealing.
Absolutely agree.

Quote:
Originally Posted by extremeskins04
I know from seeing this kind of thing all the time from games over the years that if you do find a glitch or loophole, you report it, you don't exploit it ..then blame the company for having glitches.
You can't report something you don't know about.
 
# 63 redsox4evur @ 06/29/16 02:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96
Absolutely agree.



You can't report something you don't know about.
So when a guy knows that he made a 60K order then after cancelling said order he now has 120K stubs he doesn't know that something is wrong with that? Right.
 
# 64 oski96 @ 06/29/16 02:09 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMan
Really odd to claim a company has no accountability while absolving users who knowingly exploited a system.
It's really odd to claim that everyone banned "knowingly exploited a system" when you do not know any details of how they determined who was cheating.

If you claim to know, then tell me:

1. How did the exploit work.

2. How are you sure that it could not be accidentally triggered.

3. That, if the glitch could be accidentally triggered, that the sweep accounted for this.

* SDS says it is 100% sure its glitch cannot be accidentally triggered.

** Many credible posters that have been banned claimed they did not know of the exploit and did not intentionally trigger it. Most posters who prefer a witch hunt simply overlook that within thousands of transactions a few random stubs here and there are not going to be detected. It's not like we hire an accountant to keep a ledger of our stubs, etc.

*** According to SDS, only 1% of the "exploiters" got banned which is 1,500. That means 150,000 players intentionally used this exploit, yet not one of them ever posted about it. Of course, I say "intentionally" because SDS claims it is "100%" sure that the exploit can only be triggered "intentionally." Cardinalbird5 revealed that one of his friends was told a transaction for 200 stubs was in violation. Think about that. Are you telling me that anyone that had access to what they believed was an iron-clad exploit would pull a 200 stub transaction out of it? Silly. It seems pretty obvious the glitch had been triggered accidentally - yet, SDS refuses to acknowledge or believe it.

I think any rational view of this situation would include the simple fact that given the numbers, it is clear the exploit was triggered by tens of thousands or more people UNintentionally. I don't care how cynical you are, I am not going to believe for a minute that there are 150,000 users out there who would intentionally cheat (and have it remain quiet).

That is basically what SDS is saying - and I find that patently absurd.
 
# 65 oski96 @ 06/29/16 02:18 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by redsox4evur
So when a guy knows that he made a 60K order then after cancelling said order he now has 120K stubs he doesn't know that something is wrong with that? Right.
If he KNOWS, then he knows. And I would say if we are talking about numbers that big, the only reasonable conclusion would be cheating.

If we are talking about someone who sets their orders in the morning on the PS4, then checks, cancels and resets later in the day at work, and then comes home later to play in the evening - and the values are not really significant ... I'd say you have a different scenario.

I can tell you that I always have a general idea of how many stubs I have (as well as my inventory) but I really wouldn't know +/- 5 - 10k. Its really not that easy to track when you make hundreds of transactions per day.

And yes, I made hundreds of transactions every day. I have made thousands of transactions and generally make enough to get 1.5 sets done each week.

Bottom line, your example of 60k and my example as given are basically hypotheticals at this point because SDS has not revealed much information as to what the infracting actions actually were and how much was taken. Per Ramon's twitters yesterday, one guy made 3 million over 30 transactions (obviously cheating), but another guy made 100k over 48 transactions - how can we be sure what that means without more information for that guy? If he had a transaction history like mine, you would be looking at one transaction ever 3 days for a few thousand - but in the meanwhile he is making 10x that by just trading. Doesn't make sense.

Also, what is 48? If you clear a slate of buy/sells and only 10 are buys - is that ONE instance, or is it 10? that basically means if a guy cleared his queue from a computer 5 times in 3 months, you are ready to run him out of town? I would not feel comfortable with that in light of the fact we lack context and information about this.

I am quite comfortable banning players that have all the telltale signs of exploiting - that is easy and i have posted them previously. It is obvious they are cheating, but it still requires an analysis of their transactions to make that call.
 
# 66 NKRDIBL @ 06/29/16 02:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96
It's really odd to claim that everyone banned "knowingly exploited a system" when you do not know any details of how they determined who was cheating.

If you claim to know, then tell me:

1. How did the exploit work.

2. How are you sure that it could not be accidentally triggered.

3. That, if the glitch could be accidentally triggered, that the sweep accounted for this.
Rumor is the glitch was deleted buy orders on your phone/tablet/pc then deleting them on your PS4 moment later. While the system didn't recognize the first delete. Double the stubs were returned into your account.

If that's the case. There is zero chance anyone would be doing this unwillingly. Unless you cam think of a way it would be an accident.

The "sweep" should be pretty strait forward. The game should code a time a buy order is placed. And should be giving an order number. If multiple receipts exist for that order number. I'm sure it would flag strait away.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
 
# 67 redsox4evur @ 06/29/16 02:26 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKRDIBL
Rumor is the glitch was deleted buy orders on your phone/tablet/pc then deleting them on your PS4 moment later. While the system didn't recognize the first delete. Double the stubs were returned into your account.

If that's the case. There is zero chance anyone would be doing this unwillingly. Unless you cam think of a way it would be an accident.

The "sweep" should be pretty strait forward. The game should code a time a buy order is placed. And should be giving an order number. If multiple receipts exist for that order number. I'm sure it would flag strait away.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I have heard legit sounding excuses. One being that using the Community on TSN is slow and you are watching a game and the game finally finishes then you turn your system and cancel the order. Or maybe you think you didn't finish deleting the order on your phone and you do it again on your console.
 
# 68 oski96 @ 06/29/16 02:29 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKRDIBL
It's SDS's product. If you feel like they're taking advantage of you. Play a different game. Noone has a gun to your head.


Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
And nobody has a gun to SDS' head.

That is the point. The relationship between consumer and producer has to have some semblance of trust. Regardless of actions taken (or not taken) I cannot believe SDS has so little regard for its consumers that it takes the position, "Well, we don't have to since you don't have a gun to our head."

Instead, like any business intent on making money, SDS has a commitment to serving its customers. One of the important things it wants and the customer wants is to rid its game of cheaters. I think SDS had good intentions here, but its execution is way off the mark - to the point were it is deplorable: no transparency, arrogance in claiming its (ITS!) glitch can only be exploited intentionally; no forewarning about their glitch to the community (as if they were trying to entrap people - indeed, they have known of this glitch for weeks), no explanation as to how their sweep detects the purported cheaters, no opportunity for the banned player to explain him/herself in order to get an overturn or reduction OF A PERMANENT BAN.

I can't believe you would really think this is the hallmark of a well run business.
 
# 69 oski96 @ 06/29/16 02:35 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKRDIBL
Rumor is the glitch was deleted buy orders on your phone/tablet/pc then deleting them on your PS4 moment later. While the system didn't recognize the first delete. Double the stubs were returned into your account.

If that's the case. There is zero chance anyone would be doing this unwillingly. Unless you cam think of a way it would be an accident.

The "sweep" should be pretty strait forward. The game should code a time a buy order is placed. And should be giving an order number. If multiple receipts exist for that order number. I'm sure it would flag strait away.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I appreciate your answer and I am sure this is consistent with what SDS has said.

However, and sadly, this is 100% incorrect. I know because I have never deleted orders from my computer and then done so on my PS4. I know that for a fact.

I do market orders from work and then later come home. Under your scenario, the glitch would not be triggered.

On weekends, i only use my computer when my son is on PS4 (otherwise, I do all trades from PS4 - since its way easier). If my son says he is done and I can play, I eventually go to the PS4, start the program and check my orders before playing a game.

Under your scenario, that would not trigger the glitch.

Yet, I have been banned. Many others have the same story as me. Some may be lying, but I would bet everything I own that not all of them are lying. In fact, I believe most are telling the truth.

Anyhow, the answer to the question lies in what I believe to be the false assumption that the glitch can only be triggered intentionally, and in one certain manner.

I believe the assumption is false, because I have never cleared my buy orders on computer or phone and then ran (I don't run anywhere, btw) to my PS4 to re-clear orders. I know that for a fact. You don't have to believe me, and it really doesn't matter if you do.
 
# 70 NKRDIBL @ 06/29/16 02:45 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96
I appreciate your answer and I am sure this is consistent with what SDS has said.

However, and sadly, this is 100% incorrect. I know because I have never deleted orders from my computer and then done so on my PS4. I know that for a fact.

I do market orders from work and then later come home. Under your scenario, the glitch would not be triggered.

On weekends, i only use my computer when my son is on PS4 (otherwise, I do all trades from PS4 - since its way easier). If my son says he is done and I can play, I eventually go to the PS4, start the program and check my orders before playing a game.

Under your scenario, that would not trigger the glitch.

Yet, I have been banned. Many others have the same story as me. Some may be lying, but I would bet everything I own that not all of them are lying. In fact, I believe most are telling the truth.

Anyhow, the answer to the question lies in what I believe to be the false assumption that the glitch can only be triggered intentionally, and in one certain manner.

I believe the assumption is false, because I have never cleared my buy orders on computer or phone and then ran (I don't run anywhere, btw) to my PS4 to re-clear orders. I know that for a fact. You don't have to believe me, and it really doesn't matter if you do.
This glitch could have been done on just a computer as well. It didn't need to be done by going back and fourth between devices.

And I've stated this before. Everything you and so many others are claiming to have done. I do the exact same thing. And I can still play. So something is different. I get there is frustration on not knowing what, but they don't owe you an explanation.

Instead of clamoring for answers. As I have also said before. Boycott the product. Let the world know the scam they're running (or whatever you may believe). Trying to plead your innocence isn't getting you anywhere. Not with the community and not with ramone.

And it's SDS's business. And the customer is not always right. The business has the product. Has the demand. They make the calls.

Maybe in the end they will admit this huge F up on there end. But if that's what you're holding out for, don't get your hopes up.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
 
# 71 oski96 @ 06/29/16 02:52 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKRDIBL
This glitch could have been done on just a computer as well. It didn't need to be done by going back and fourth between devices.

And I've stated this before. Everything you and so many others are claiming to have done. I do the exact same thing. And I can still play. So something is different. I get there is frustration on not knowing what, but they don't owe you an explanation.

Instead of clamoring for answers. As I have also said before. Boycott the product. Let the world know the scam they're running (or whatever you may believe). Trying to plead your innocence isn't getting you anywhere. Not with the community and not with ramone.

And it's SDS's business. And the customer is not always right. The business has the product. Has the demand. They make the calls.

Maybe in the end they will admit this huge F up on there end. But if that's what you're holding out for, don't get your hopes up.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I don't want to boycott the product. For all its flaws (and I have never complained about them) I love playing the game. I have spent hundreds of hours playing this iteration. A boycott will not serve me in any way.

You seem to have more information about the glitch - so, you are sure it can be done just by using a computer? how would that work? how can you delete our queue and delete it again?

Please explain (I really don't get that).
 
# 72 SmashMan @ 06/29/16 02:54 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96
It's really odd to claim that everyone banned "knowingly exploited a system" when you do not know any details of how they determined who was cheating.
I never said everyone, and I never singled you out. I thought it was pretty clear I was speaking generally based on what I've read across various boards.

As I also said in the previous post, while I believe SCEA saying they investigated these, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some innocent people were caught in this. Email them ([email protected]) and press for more specific details to find out what you stumbled into that flagged you in their system.
 
# 73 NKRDIBL @ 06/29/16 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96
I don't want to boycott the product. For all its flaws (and I have never complained about them) I love playing the game. I have spent hundreds of hours playing this iteration. A boycott will not serve me in any way.

You seem to have more information about the glitch - so, you are sure it can be done just by using a computer? how would that work? how can you delete our queue and delete it again?

Please explain (I really don't get that).
I do believe if you were to open multiple tabs on a computer with the same my Orders screen open. Then deleted them simultaneously that you may trigger the glitch. Same as deleting from your phone whole clicking cancel on your computer so PS4.

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# 74 oski96 @ 06/29/16 02:58 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKRDIBL
Trying to plead your innocence isn't getting you anywhere. Not with the community and not with ramone.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I am not pleading anything. I am simply asking for an explanation of this process that led to my account being banned (on a game I have paid for and use properly).

Once I get that information, I intend to explain (and not to you, but SDS) how nothing I did (or am being accused of) was intentional or designed to benefit me by getting "free stubs." I know you don't care (and that is fine) but I am certain that if I get the opportunity to work through this with SDS they will be convinced I did nothing intentionally wrong. I also think that would be the case with many of the other banned.

And I don't care about Ramone, either. He is basically a "yes man" and has no real authority here. Also, his demeanor is completely inappropriate for a person who's job is to deal with the public. As you say, "that's SDS' business," and indeed it is. That doesn't mean it is sound business.

Anyhow, since your position is that someone that has something unfairly taken from them and on top of that labeled a "cheater" should just address the problem by a boycott, I don't think there is much room for productive conversation with you.
 
# 75 oski96 @ 06/29/16 03:01 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by NKRDIBL
I do believe if you were to open multiple tabs on a computer with the same my Orders screen open. Then deleted them simultaneously that you may trigger the glitch. Same as deleting from your phone whole clicking cancel on your computer so PS4.

Sent from my SM-N910W8 using Tapatalk
I assume you mean "two windows." I don't see how you can do anything simultaneously with two tabs because you'd have to switch back and forth. For that matter, I don't see how you could do it on two open windows, either - how could you have cursor on both windows at the same time?
 
# 76 Finn @ 06/29/16 03:02 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96
I assume you mean "two windows." I don't see how you can do anything simultaneously with two tabs because you'd have to switch back and forth. For that matter, I don't see how you could do it on two open windows, either - how could you have cursor on both windows at the same time?
I don't believe it had to be simultaneous so maybe even a gap of a few seconds maybe a minute. It's not very clear unfortunately.
 
# 77 oski96 @ 06/29/16 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SmashMan
I never said everyone, and I never singled you out. I thought it was pretty clear I was speaking generally based on what I've read across various boards.

As I also said in the previous post, while I believe SCEA saying they investigated these, I wouldn't be surprised to hear that some innocent people were caught in this. Email them ([email protected]) and press for more specific details to find out what you stumbled into that flagged you in their system.
Well, i am sorry because I did not read your other posts - just the one that appeared at the top of the page. Anyway, I emailed them Monday at about noon. Have not heard back.
 
# 78 NKRDIBL @ 06/29/16 03:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96

Anyhow, since your position is that someone that has something unfairly taken from them and on top of that labeled a "cheater" should just address the problem by a boycott, I don't think there is much room for productive conversation with you.
You don't get it.

If they have wrongly (and legally) taken something away from you. Now even if you did nothing wrong they still have that right. It's there right. And Noone has labeled you a cheater. The world did not know you were a cheater. You came onto the forum saying you have been banned. They did not release a list of all the psn ID'S.

Now if I was in your position. And a company took away my right to a product where I did nothing wrong. I wouldn't spend all my efforts trying to kiss and make up with them over a $60 item. If they're not going to cooperate with you. I would boycott them and spread the message about how ridiculous and unethical they have acted.

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# 79 NKRDIBL @ 06/29/16 03:07 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by oski96
I assume you mean "two windows." I don't see how you can do anything simultaneously with two tabs because you'd have to switch back and forth. For that matter, I don't see how you could do it on two open windows, either - how could you have cursor on both windows at the same time?
Yes. 2 windows. 2 browsers. Could minimize browser and click over on a slowish Internet connection I would guess. I never tried, just me guessing.

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# 80 oski96 @ 06/29/16 03:08 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Finn
I don't believe it had to be simultaneous so maybe even a gap of a few seconds maybe a minute. It's not very clear unfortunately.
Okay. So, that leaves another route to triggering the glitch.

I don't recall doing that either - especially since I have a small laptop and don't usually use multiple windows. I do, however, clear all my orders quickly when I do clear them (mouse click + enter button) and then re-set new orders based on whatever new market orders were entered since my prior bids were placed - but the process of putting in new orders is slow because of the CAPTCHA.

Anyhow, I doubt that is it, either because I don't do much trading on my computer vs. my console.

I guess at some point in time, SDS will respond to my email and let me know just what it is all about.
 


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