NBA 2K16 News Post

An In-Depth Look at the Changes to the NBA 2K16 Ratings System

10:41 PM - August 21, 2015 by Steve_OS

Mike Stauffer, AKA Beds, has just posted an in-depth look at the changes to the NBA 2K16 ratings system. It is definitely an interesting approach that will generate plenty of discussion. Read it over and post your thoughts.

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# 121 QNo @ 08/22/15 04:30 PM

This is really exciting, should make the game a lot better if it works out as well as it sounds. It would seem reasonable to me to have a few players have 99 rating in some instances, especially when they played in different eras.

Wilt Chamberlain is easily the strongest player of all times, but I'd also give Shaq a 99 rating since he was the player to use his strength to his advantage much more because of the way the refereeing has changed over the years. If you watch old film you notice that the refs are very quick to call offensive fouls for what we would consider harmless contact.

There is also an inherent difficulty in comparing eras. Despite the common conception that Wilt played against tiny white Cs while Shaq had to battle through the golden C era, Wilt played against great Cs much more often since the league was much smaller back then. See e.g. https://twitter.com/WiltCArchive/sta...21329528610817

This also applies to comparing other stats, such as the already discussed rebounding issue. Stats, no matter how advanced, can only be used to compare players of the same era since they would face a roughly similar competition and ruleset.

# 122 GSW @ 08/22/15 04:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by QNo


	This is really exciting, should make the game a lot better if it works out as well as it sounds. It would seem reasonable to me to have a few players have 99 rating in some instances, especially when they played in different eras. Wilt Chamberlain is easily the strongest player of all times, but I'd also give Shaq a 99 rating since he was the player to use his strength to his advantage much more because of the way the refereeing has changed over the years. If you watch old film you notice that the refs are very quick to call offensive fouls for what we would consider harmless contact. There is also an inherent difficulty in comparing eras. Despite the common conception that Wilt played against tiny white Cs while Shaq had to battle through the golden C era, Wilt played against great Cs much more often since the league was much smaller back then. See e.g. https://twitter.com/WiltCArchive/sta...21329528610817 This also applies to comparing other stats, such as the already discussed rebounding issue. Stats, no matter how advanced, can only be used to compare players of the same era since they would face a roughly similar competition and ruleset.

Yea,

I want to see how this plays out into the physical attributes. Who has the highest vertical? Are we saying that Raptors Vince Carter is the pinnacle? How do you measure speed/quickness/agility/"awareness" etc..

Seems like guess work is taken out of the stats ratings but physical attributes are going to be somewhat biased, no?

# 123 8KB24 @ 08/22/15 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MP.Trey


	Couldn't disagree more about basketball being nothing but numbers and probability. You have to watch tape to see HOW a player does something to truly understand what they're good and not good at. Just looking at Kerr's percentages, he shoots it better than Curry, but Curry by far takes more shots and more diffcult shots and is a much more impressive shooter. I think 2k does well with rating players but acting like numbers are the be all end all is pretty ridiculous imo.

that's why there are ratings and tendencies for standing and moving jumpers/3 point shot and kerr would probably have 99 standing and lower moving 3pt shot while i predict curry has 93-95 in both categories and also high tendency to shoot off the dribble while kerr would have high tendency to spot up and almost never shoot off the dribble.

# 124 eko718 @ 08/22/15 05:08 PM

I wonder why having a defined standard by which to rate players bothers some folks here so much. Should they just use the eye test instead? Lmao... Just because there's a standard, doesn't mean that it's completely rigid and excludes all other considerations.

# 125 Skeptikz @ 08/22/15 05:11 PM

As I mentioned in the other thread I think this new philosophy on ratings is a great idea - and I'm glad to hear that its being implemented the way i thought when I first heard about it....

One important thing to note, when weighing in on the player x should be rated higher than player y, is that (from what I can tell) the ratings are measuring SKILLSET. For example, when looking at the Rodman vs Malone/Chamberlain/Russell or whoever else, if you take into account that Rodman was 3+ inches shorter than everyone else in the conversation and generally undersized for his position surely he must have been the most SKILLED at offensive rebounding because he was at a huge disadvantage off the bat.

So even if Malone has a 98 or even a 95, that doesn't mean he wont be as effective as Rodman in the game.

The same thing can be said about the KD vs Lebron Overall conversation. The one that is 6'11" does not need to be as skilled to be as effective as the one that is 6'8"...

# 126 Bexthelegend @ 08/22/15 05:36 PM

lol at the people arguing about the Nba defenses being weaker.

People have to realize that the rule changes have caused defenses to be altered not weaker.

Hand checking stopped being allowed, but zones stopped being outlawed. Before the rule chance you had to bring a help defender all the way across, whiles now the help defender is already waiting for you. That's why nearly every team runs players off the 3 point line, gives them the illusion of space, and then collapses on them with a help defender when they penetrate. It's why players get trapped off the pick and roll so easily. It's why drive and kicks are so valuable. It's why The amount of isolations have decreased. The way you beat modern matchup zone defenses is ball movement/pick and rolls. Isolations/post ups are Ineffiencent unless they consistently draw double teams.

Hand checking encourage 1-1 play.. Zones discourage that

It's not a matter of players being worse of better, it's a matter of different skills being needed to attack hand checking vs Zones.

Thibs maxminze the limits of the current rules with the big 3 celtics. And all of the league has adopted it itIf you still don't understand watch this video of the Bulls defense. You barley see anyone go one on one

https://youtube.com/watch?v=uzWRree2YlQ

# 127 23 @ 08/22/15 05:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	Yea, I want to see how this plays out into the physical attributes. Who has the highest vertical? Are we saying that Raptors Vince Carter is the pinnacle? How do you measure speed/quickness/agility/"awareness" etc.. Seems like guess work is taken out of the stats ratings but physical attributes are going to be somewhat biased, no?

I honestly think Clyde Drexler could jump as high as Vince if that was his focus.

I really don't know how you figure that stuff out though.. I just hope speed makes a difference

# 128 Sundown @ 08/22/15 05:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by doublek


	Lebron still almost won the Finals without his 2 best players in the team. It's not even close.

Lol. Lebron and the Cavs did not almost win the Finals. Winning a couple of close games to go 1-2 and then getting steamrolled 3-0 isn't anything close to almost winning.

Lebron had an enormously easy path to the Finals. Let's make no mistake-- he was beast. And he was a force though his efficiency was what GSW wanted him to do. But it was somehow both incredible that Lebron could carry such a heavy load AND not that incredible that he was taking that many shots at such low efficiency. It was obvious that Lebron was no longer peak Lebron, but still a force of nature. The argument that Lebron is the best player in the league because of defense no longer holds. I can't actually tell you anything noteworthy he did on defense. He certainly didn't shut down even Iguodala, who was finals MVP. I can understand that he was conserving his energy of offense, but it was a very inefficient offense.

KD could probably do as much damage in the east. I can understand if his 91 rating reflects his injury year however.

# 129 Sundown @ 08/22/15 06:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 8KB24


	that's why there are ratings and tendencies for standing and moving jumpers/3 point shot and kerr would probably have 99 standing and lower moving 3pt shot while i predict curry has 93-95 in both categories and also high tendency to shoot off the dribble while kerr would have high tendency to spot up and almost never shoot off the dribble.

Curry may be better than Kerr at standing 3's. Kerr had an inflated percentage due to two years with a shortened three point line. Curry also takes way more in volume which traditionally affects efficiency.

Up to a few seasons ago, Curry had a better career percentage if you adjusted for the short three point line years, even on much, much higher volume and difficulty-- the focus of opposing defenses, not just playing off ball to Michael Jordan. It might be the case again with Curry climbing back up to 44% this year, after dropping to 40 last season. And it might be partially due to Kerr's coaching instead of Mark Jackson's stagnant sets.

I DO HOPE THE TEAM ACCOUNTS FOR VOLUME VS EFFICIENCY. Just because a player shoots low volume and selects good shots doesn't mean he's better than a player who shoots at a high volume with a slightly lower efficiency.

Curry better have the highest average total 3-point rating across the board with at least one or two all time 99's (off the dribble and maybe moving threes) or I riot.

I also hope the team is not just looking at standing vs moving threes, but also the degree of contest, which should be telling in the case of role players taking open shots vs contested superstars.

# 130 Scramz718 @ 08/22/15 06:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GSW


	Yea, I want to see how this plays out into the physical attributes. Who has the highest vertical? Are we saying that Raptors Vince Carter is the pinnacle? How do you measure speed/quickness/agility/"awareness" etc.. Seems like guess work is taken out of the stats ratings but physical attributes are going to be somewhat biased, no?

They redid physical attributes ratings midway through 2k15, they used data from the draft combine to come up with speed, quickness and vertical ratings.

# 131 Trackball @ 08/22/15 06:42 PM

I've created a monster.

Guys, I've already conceded the point about Rodman.

Here's the proof! http://www.operationsports.com/forum...3&postcount=55

# 132 SaruAqua @ 08/22/15 06:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeebs9


	Hahaha Thank god it's your opinion. LeBron James just carried his team to the finals. And he balled or of his mind. And your saying KD who didn't make the playoffs, was injured for most of the season and finally hasn't won the big one yet. I don't think they should be tied.

You must of missed the part where I said "healthy" + I should've been more clear. IMO, KD has been better than LBJ since the 2013-14 season. Any version of LeBron beforehand is definitely better.

"LeBron James just carried his team to the Finals"
- and so? He plays in the ****ty East and still lost in the Finals. Before you bring up his stats, his rebounding/playmaking #'s were inflated due to his horrible defense and horrible shooting (39%FG vs single coverage and 28%FG outside of five feet, LMFAOO). Prime Kobe/Wade/Duncan/Durant could've led that team to the Finals, too. Aside of Duncan, I doubt anyone else would've won but taking that team to the Finals is not impressive.

Try it in the West and I'll be impressed.

# 133 SaruAqua @ 08/22/15 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ai2k2


	Must mean LeBron is the highest rated in the current NBA with a 94 overall or something to that effect. I can't wait to see Wade's rating. I'm guessing around 85. His numbers were really good at 33.

Me too. Aside of 20 missed games on an injury-riddled inconsistent Heat team, he was great for his age. First player at 33 to put up his stats since Bird in '90.

Sans injuries, the Heat will be a force this upcoming season.

# 134 jeebs9 @ 08/22/15 07:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SaruAqua


	You must of missed the part where I said "healthy" + I should've been more clear. IMO, KD has been better than LBJ since the 2013-14 season. Any version of LeBron beforehand is definitely better. "LeBron James just carried his team to the Finals" - and so? He plays in the ****ty East and still lost in the Finals. Before you bring up his stats, his rebounding/playmaking #'s were due to his horrible defense and horrible shooting (39%FG vs single coverage and 28%FG outside to five feet, LMFAOO). Prime Kobe/Wade/Duncan/Durant could've led that team to the Finals, too. Aside of Duncan, I doubt anyone else would've won but taking that team to the Finals is not impressive. Try it in the West and I'll be impressed.

People want to make the West so powerful. Stop your fantasy of LeBron going West. It's never going to happen. Stop bringing up a guy name that didn't play a full season.

# 135 Wildcats302 @ 08/22/15 07:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeebs9


	People want to make the West so powerful. Stop your fantasy of LeBron going West. It's never going to happen. Stop bringing up a guy name that didn't play a full season.

That's because it is. The WC is vastly superior to the east and has been since the 1998-1999 season overall. Last year I'd say at least 6/8 WC teams would have cakewalked to the NBA finals if you had traded out Cleveland for one of them. I'm also extremely confident that zero EC teams would have made the NBA finals out of the west last year.

But you are right...they are never going to do the right thing and seed the playoffs 1-16 to balance this out so there is more of a chance of the two best teams being in the finals each year. Now having said that, I feel a healthy Cleveland will be one of the two best teams (on paper) for the next 3-5 years so as long as Cleveland keeps winning the east I suppose it will work itself out.

# 136 QNo @ 08/22/15 08:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundown


	Curry may be better than Kerr at standing 3's. Kerr had an inflated percentage due to two years with a shortened three point line.

That's another thing that I hope will be corrected with these changes - this year, the 96 MJ has a 90 standing and 87 moving 3. Jordan never shot that well from the deep 3-point line, even Pippen has an 87 3. Those ratings should be corrected as it's pretty ridiculous.

# 137 32domo @ 08/22/15 08:09 PM

2k has blessed us finally now hopefully all these youtube channels of cheese will crash cant wait to see the ratings now i can play to the strength of players and not just running around trying to block a contested shot and it goes in thank you 2k you really made my day!

# 138 SaruAqua @ 08/22/15 08:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeebs9


	People want to make the West so powerful. Stop your fantasy of LeBron going West. It's never going to happen. Stop bringing up a guy name that didn't play a full season.

Way to sway the debate. You didn't even refute any of my points and since you seem to be hellbent on injuries, here's a short list of superstars that shouldn't be mentioned because they didn't play a full season by your 'standards':

- '86 Jordan
- '96 Shaq
- '02 Iverson
- '04 Kobe
- '07 Wade
- '14 Westbrook

Aside of MJ who was just a sophomore, everyone else HAD A CASE for the best player at their time:

Shaq - came off a 26/11/57% postseason run while leading Orlando to the Finals the previous year
A.I.- came off a 31/4/5/42% MVP season while leading Philly to the Finals the previous year
Kobe - came off a 30/7/6/45% legendary season (9 straight w/ 40+ points) the previous year
Wade - came off a 28/6/6/49% postseason run and GOAT-tier Finals performance (35/8/4/47%, 39 ppg on 51% in last 4 games) with the championship the previous year
Westbrook - had a 27/7/8/42% postseason run in which he matched KD and quite possibly performed better than everyone in the '14 P/O

... but since all of these guys were injured like KD a year after their great play, it doesn't count since they "didn't play a full season".

# 139 DC @ 08/22/15 08:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scramz718


	They redid physical attributes ratings midway through 2k15, they used data from the draft combine to come up with speed, quickness and vertical ratings.

Not always a fan of that because many people play differently than what their combine results suggest.

# 140 The 24th Letter @ 08/22/15 08:34 PM

You don't pick the conference you play in, just like the Warriors didn't get to choose that every team they faced starting PG be injured....but that's how it happened.....think it's silly to try to discredit LBJs performance or the Warriors accomplishments because of either of those things....

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An In-Depth Look at the Changes to the NBA 2K16 Ratings System