Madden NFL 13 News Post
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none of us are NFL players or coaches (there might be someone hiding somewhere thats laughing at this and secretly saying to himself, i am)
but that statement works both ways.
I try and make this game better by talking about and explaining all the exploits you see and why they need to be removed.
im on board with what you guys want - i just play differently then you guys do.
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what you are saying is totally valid - i was praying for a PI on that play.
i thought gronk caught it at first and i went absolute nuts and then realized that my Pats fell to the Giants once again on the big stage
# 165
therealsmallville @ 05/04/12 07:01 PM
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This is where wanting physics and weight to come into play because its to easy to navigate these players around or across the field as they just slide around regardless of their momentum and position kn the field. Trust and believe if all this was accounted for, you better had made the right choice on what player you chose to Target or it would really cost you lime it should now.
But playing safety or any secondary position, do you take a read step first or do you you just go in blazing?
I swear to you this would cut a lot of that kamikaze gameplay out I see daily, but ill post a vid up when I get home.
Another thing, is it cheesy of.me to continue to bore myself running the same defense over and over because my opponent wants to do the same on offense? I try to mix up my D but its hard when only a handful of plays can counter the everyday cheesy stuff.
# 167
baller7345 @ 05/04/12 07:06 PM
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Taylor Mays isn't the best safety in the league but if you are controlling him he may as well be. They need some sort of system that actually lets using a crafty veteran or just a very smart player worthwhile. Something like their old Smart QB/LB Weapon where you could see certain assignments.
Not sure how you'd make a system like that work in a face to face game but there should be something to make it so that the guys with all the physical attributes aren't necessarily the best players. This goes over to WR more than any position in my opinion because if you have a 6'4" WR then you can dominate shorter CB's all day long in Madden with face throws and the strange fact that routes like the man beating wheel route is more consistent when you run it with a poor route runner. For instance Tori Gurley should never be seeing the field with GB but I know people who use him for his low route running and height....there is something wrong with that.
EDIT:
Oh while it is still fresh in my mind after watching someone do it. How in the world could they have missed the glitch where you can run out of the end zone and then back through the back of the endzone on a kickoff and not have count as a safety during the development cycle?
# 168
baller7345 @ 05/04/12 07:12 PM
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Also I agree on how much ground players can cover. Running 4 Verts against Cover 3 should be automatic if you read the safety correctly but occassionally if the safety takes the TE (on the post ) the CB can still manage to break off of the outside and actually make a play on the ball even though you made the correct read. Now this is a rarer example as in most cases 4 verts kills cover 3 like it should but occassionally you'll get a play out of guy who should never have made that play. Hopefully read and react defense fixes issues like that and separates the true play makers from the rest of the pack.
# 169
Illustrator76 @ 05/04/12 07:27 PM
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O.K., now I'm out.
# 170
WFColonel56 @ 05/04/12 07:37 PM
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===============
If you see the same routes/plays used against you it is for a reason.....
Tourney players set up offensive plays to attack your defense.. Different players set up plays differently but they have the same overlying theme
a play has 5 eligible receivers..Now with those receivers I can make a play that can beat cover 3,2,4, and man coverage...And guess what it is fundamentally sound X's and O's wise
X-------LB------00000--------A----------B
--------------------Q
--------------------Y
B- curl
A- seam
Y- flat
LB- in route
X- streak
A+B+Y= curl flat route combo that beats
cover 3 with the curl
cover4 with the flat
cover 2 with the seam
and can beat man with the curl
Lb's in route is another viable option vs man because of the players inside break
X's streak is just for spacing
this play is something that can be run over and over and it is X's and O's wise 100% realistic... and something that you would see in a NFL playbook....But prob X's route would be a dig for the FOLLOW ROUTE COMBO
it is up to you to make adjustments to your defense to defend it...
Just like how I posted a couple of pages back about how my High School defense only played cover 3 and had certain rules for offensive sets, think of those as madden adjustments....Its like finding the pieces to the puzzle.
The offensive play above can be cracked..you just have to make the defensive rules to defend it.....If you dont defend it JUST LIKE IN REAL LIFE you will see it over and over until you do.
If you keep running pure man you will keep getting an offensive play that will beat it..its up to you to complete the puzzle you need to stop it..
Same with pure cover 2..if you keep running it you will get plays over and over that will take advantage of your deep safeties coverage...
X--------------LB------00000------------A-------------B
---------------------------Q
---------------------------Y
if your in cover 2 you will keep seeing
X-streak
LB- in route
A- post
B- streak
Y- block
I will run streaks to take care of your safeties and run a post right between them......If your MLB covers it than the in route will be open where he left
or I could run 4 verts and put the running back on a curl....same thing
if you dont defend it thats all you will see just like in real life..
on coachhuey.com there are threads made over and over again about "what do you do vs cover 3/4/2?"
anf guess what? those guys answer and say if I get__________ I will run________ until they stop it
Its realistic.....And if you get the same routes/plays over and over its being called for a reason...
=======================
madden is a competitive played game. Just like with EVERY OTHER competitive played game the players will do everything within the rules to win.
Same with Halo, COD, 2k basketball, street fighter/any fighting game...it doesnt matter. If it is competitively played than players will do everything within the rules to get a victory.
The only thing that sim players can really use as a argument in their favor is the fact that madden is TRYING to replicate a simulation of the sport of football therefore it should be played like football.
(sidenote: a good amount of of sim league rules do not replicate football..but thats neither here nor there)
Now at the end of the day it comes down to what can and what cant be done in the game..That falls on EA's shoulders. Despite what you guys thing EA making a move towards a more realistic game is what the MAJORITY of tourney players want. But its no use in breaking down AGAIN why tourney players want a realistic game because every time I type it out people just dismiss it.
But these players can only do what the game allows them to do. You cant RC if its not possible to RC..you get my point
(sidenote: the RC in M12 is not even worth the effort to pull it off.....and if you get hit in the act you drop the ball most times...if your OPP is RC'ing they would have made the catch regardless because out 8/10 times their guy was open)
Even the shake blitz (which a lot of tourney guys hate themselves) the reason that it is used is because It has NOT BEEN FIXED IN 3 YEARS...And it isnt the blitz itself thats the issue, its the fact that the blitzers are already accelerated by the time the ball is snapped because of the movement from shake..
But at the end of the day is it the players fault that things like that have not been addressed? If there is a map glitch in call of duty is it the players fault if it isnt fixed 3 months into the game?
===================
But here is where the developers are put in a catch 22, damned if they do damned if they dont in regards to blitzing...
No Defensive tackles SHOULD NOT be the players who come free in blitzes.. ANd that needs to be fixed. But there are no protection rules set in madden and I myself would like Big on Big priorities ... Lineman are bigger threats than LBs and focus on picking them up first.
============
But the devs cant fix what Sim Players want them to fix without compromising FOOTBALL. If I send 4 rushers to your 3 blockers a player NEEDS to come free....
If you dont slide protect or have equal blockers WHO CAN MAKE THE BLOCK there needs to be a guy free..
If the OL just magically makes the adjustments THAT THE USER SHOULD HAVE and they pick the blitz up they compromise FOOTBALL
(and honestly we have almost been to that point with backside tackles and guards magically running to the opp side of the field to pick up blocks)
And tourney players feel like sim players DO NOT TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES to set up their protections or hot reads like they need to to be successful..
THAT SIM PLAYERS JUST WANT IT TO MAGICALLY HAPPEN...Thats how tourney players feel.
And there is NO BLITZ that can not be handled in madden. You can pick every thing up or you can have your hot reads ready to make the Defense pay for trying your knowledge...
Even in those blitzes that DTs come free if you were to look at the after game replays you would still see a blitzers number advantage vs blockers...SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE COME FREE...regardless
# 171
WFColonel56 @ 05/04/12 07:47 PM
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======
But you say that because of the lack of momentum and what not that player is able to glide around and make a play on something he normally would not......That is true to an extent but at the same time M12 isnt last gen maddens
Last gen maddens I literally could cover 30yds horizontally with a free safety within the time of the throw to the catch...That is most def not the case in M11 or M12.
Players read your route combos and are able to gauge where you want to go with the ball based off of what you run and what their defense is and they make educated guesses on where you are going with the ball.
M12 you cant take 4 false steps with your user defender and re route him another way to make a play on the ball like you could in M10 and previous.
And the depth of field isnt that far off. IRL if your already moving you can cover 10yds in a sec madden isnt too far off from that.
# 172
baller7345 @ 05/04/12 07:57 PM
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The tounament crowd seems to think that the sim crowd wants everything done for them and that knowing how to beat protections and actually scheme protections shouldn't be part of the game but for the most part that isn't the case. I feel the reason for this disconnect is because the ones that tend to voice their concerns the loudest aren't a true representation of either group.
Blitzes for the Sim Player
That thread right there has over 22,000 views and I get about 5 pm's a week mentioning how thankful a player is that someone actually gave them some blitzes that 1.)Look realistic in execution, or 2.)Can be ran in their leagues. Other than that I get asked more than anything else is about protection schemes that don't involve motioning a WR into the middle of the line and how I go about finding blitzes. As I'm probably one of the most openly sim guys on that forum it tends to be sim players who are asking me these questions. We aren't as ignorant as the tourney crowd think, much like you guys aren't as football dumb as many in the sim crowd think.
# 173
WFColonel56 @ 05/04/12 08:27 PM
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If madden was directed at simulating the NFL as best as it could than depending on the team you use you are only allowed to go for it on fourth down as many times as that particular coach would..
You would be forced to have your play selection limited to ONLY the plays that that coach would pick on a particular down and distance.
if you are a falcon fan (like I am) you are not allowed to blitz on 3rd and long like BVG and watch the offense shred you....(sorry I had a personal moment there lol)
If maddens goal was to simulate the nfl to the best of its ability than you should only be limited to do the things that that particual coaching staff and team would do...
Madden as it currently stands is a VIDEO GAME that replicates the sport of football, thats it. Nothing more
With that you have the ability to be your own coach. You can replicate existing offensive schemes in the nfl or invent your own....
If I want to go for it on 4th down every time whay shouldnt I he does....
http://highschool.rivals.com/content.asp?CID=892888
if I want to kick onside kicks every time i should be allowed to do so like that other HS coach who does it..
That is a true simulation of football..
If I couldnt replicate the 10-1 defense (look it up) in madden than I would not play madden ever again....I have been trying to crack that D for 3 yrs lol .....and im close
Thats the beauty of madden....you can try anything that your brain can think of..If that goes than I go
If my M12 offense (which is a replication of the 10-11 NE offense with a twist) was impossible to TRY to do than that is the biggest injustice over anything. Because that is when you arent simulating football.
Football is what is capable from the chalkboard
anything beyond that that you have a problem with IS THE DEVELOPERS FAULT...not the players
Again players can only do what the game allows them to
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All I do differently is look to see how can I get the same pressure but with less defenders rushing? Thats just about the only difference with what your doing and what im doing.
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i respect everyone that plays the game but to be blatantly told that I play the game wrong is just not fair on your part.
Whats your offensive and defensive gameplan look like?
# 177
WFColonel56 @ 05/04/12 08:59 PM
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THE DEVELOPERS
I keep saying it......Players can only do what the game allows them to do.
As far as going for it on 4th, or calling plays over and over again, etc...That is a gamers right to do so. They are their own coach
thought this was interesting from Chris over at smartfootball.com
http://smartfootball.com/offense/the...empo-no-huddle
...It’s only a slight exaggeration to say that huddling is an archaism destined for the dustbin. I say it’s a slight exaggeration because there is a value to huddling, primarily when you have a great leader at quarterback as a huddle is an opportunity for him to show his leadership skills. But otherwise, it’s inherently inferior to going no-huddle. It’s slower, which is a problem both in games but also in practice where your offense gets fewer reps, and, maybe most importantly, the safety net of a huddle leads coaches to transform plays that can be communicated in just one or two words into multi-syllabic monstrosities. That’s the sad secret of those long NFL playcalls: They convey no more information than can be conveyed with one or two words or with a combination of hand-signals..
http://smartfootball.com/offense/the...empo-no-huddle
...It’s only a slight exaggeration to say that huddling is an archaism destined for the dustbin. I say it’s a slight exaggeration because there is a value to huddling, primarily when you have a great leader at quarterback as a huddle is an opportunity for him to show his leadership skills. But otherwise, it’s inherently inferior to going no-huddle. It’s slower, which is a problem both in games but also in practice where your offense gets fewer reps, and, maybe most importantly, the safety net of a huddle leads coaches to transform plays that can be communicated in just one or two words into multi-syllabic monstrosities. That’s the sad secret of those long NFL playcalls: They convey no more information than can be conveyed with one or two words or with a combination of hand-signals..
# 179
WFColonel56 @ 05/04/12 09:17 PM
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If madden wants to simulate only the NFL than madden will always be three years behind in EVERYTHING.
Gibs posted earlier about TE @ HB...That was considered crazy just a calender year ago in the NFL. But guess what this next season you will see at least two more teams do it. Book it
And NE's 2 TE offense that they really got into 2 yrs ago was a complete throwback to the NFL. And where is the NFL shifting towards this upcoming season 2 TE offenses.
And lets not forget that NOTHING is invented in the nfl...EVERYTHING originated in high school and college and then made its way to the nfl. Which further leads to the point that by NOT trying to replicate football and only replicate the NFL you will always be three years behind.
But if madden doenst implement 2 TE packages like NE has than I can do it myself....I could have done it this yr, the yr before, and the yr before.
Im not saying madden needs to implement the option just because ________ gets drafted. Something like that needs to be seen in the nfl first. But to restrict a playstyle just because it isnt prevalent in the NFL is ridiculousness
Sim players were against (not sure if sim guys are still against) no huddling every play on a drive. Well ATL is at its best when they no huddle. In fact they would no huddle entire drives. Now is it acceptable to be done in sim games?
if not than the sim rules really arent sim
and if so what happens when EVENTUALLY there is a NFL coach that goes for it on 4th down at a crazy rate? What happens to your rules?
You cant govern a playstyle
# 180
WFColonel56 @ 05/04/12 09:19 PM
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