Madden 12 News Post

Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

07:16 PM - August 10, 2011 by ChaseB

Contentious, heated, excitable. Whatever buzzword I use, it probably can't properly sum up the way things get around here once the Madden demo hits each year. It truly is exciting and terrifying all at once. The staff has been playing the demo like all you folks out there, and they have a wide range of views on the game.

So read on to find out what some of our writers think about the Madden 12 demo at this point.

Read More - Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

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Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 44 - View All

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Member Comments

# 121 bichettehappens @ 08/13/11 05:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy


	Why exactly are we supposed to assume 2k would have come up with a real-time physics engine before Backbreaker, when, correct me if I'm wrong, NBA 2k11 didn't even have "real-time" physics, and that was their best game?

That's exactly what I was thinking. I love NBA 2K11 but that game is animation central, including one of the worst animations across any sports game I've played -- the perimeter bump animation.

# 122 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 08/13/11 05:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bichettehappens


	That's exactly what I was thinking. I love NBA 2K11 but that game is animation central, including one of the worst animations across any sports game I've played -- the perimeter bump animation.

Exactly, and I absolutely loved NFL 2k5 and NBA 2k11.

# 123 AndyP @ 08/13/11 05:34 PM

I will be disappointed if the same low angle/cinematic camera from NCAA 12 doesn't appear in Madden for replays, otherwise what point is there in having that 3D grass. Especially given that it's inevitable that we won't be able to capture images (like NCAA). Loads of improvements in Madden but those are two things that I really will miss if they aren't in the full retail version.

# 124 TombSong @ 08/13/11 06:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmakers


	No disrespect man but it sounds like to me you want Madden to be NFL 2K5 What i don't understand is why some people feel just because they enjoyed NFL 2K5 everyone else should feel the same way. I'm not defending EA for their issues but sometimes i think some guys honestly believe NFL 2K5 was flawless. If that game was great for you fine but there are some us who actually found flaws in NFL 2K5 that turn us off with the gameplay. I mean seriously complaining about the graphics not being upgraded by much it's still better than any graphics I've ever seen in 2K football To act like DB's in 2K5 didn't have their flaws just as much as Madden is just basically doing what some of us do with Madden ignore the flaws..... I'm not going to write a journal compiling a list of things a game from 6 years ago did wrong it's not worth my time......but the bottom line is some of you guys obvioulsy have yet to move on and every year we have to hear about what a company out of business used to do I like Troy Aikman better than Tony Romo but guess what he ain't coming back to satisfy my fan experience when watching the Cowboys.... Seems to me the Madden crowd aren't the guys trying to convince anyone of anything.....it's the small 2K5 crowd that comes us over here every year trying to convince the Madden crowd that the game ain't great or it can't stack up to the holy grail which was 2K5..... It seems like to me that some of the people who were in love with 2K5 only purchase Madden or rent Madden to compile a laundry list of things the game does wrong when compaired to 2K5 each year. I'm sorry but if i didn't like a game there's no way in hell I'm going to spend $60 bucks just to see how it stacks up vs a game from 6 years ago If your not a fan of the Madden series i'm pretty sure there's nothing EA can do with the gameplay to make you love the series accept one thing and one thing only make the game play like NFL 2K5 I'm tired of typing NFL 2K5 is DEAD!

In short, no where do I say Madden needs to play just like 2k5/2k8.
ap2k8/2k5 were not flawless games, I can say that. I also did not say it was flawless. Madden or 2k being flawless aint even the point of the post which is always lost on guys to busy wanting to defend madden instead of stare at the truth about the game.
No where do I imply anyone has to like 2k5/2k8.
What in my post is factually not true ?
Speak to that, not your anger to why someone has spoke a pov that you don't agree with about madden.

For all of you about to bring up a issue about the post that was not even brought up in the post...please speak to what I am saying in the post...whats not true in it ?

# 125 TombSong @ 08/13/11 06:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	I'm assuming you haven't seen improvement up to this stage. I agreed with most of your post, but to say there is no improvement towards the past competitor games is not really realistic. The camera areas itself make it like a TV broadcast presentation, which you admitted when you said EA has caught up. The tackling is improved immensely and more towards the other games. No more huggy feely protak type tackles. Does it have a ways to go? You bet it does, but this is the first time since Madden 10 I'm happy the direction in which the series is going. Like you said, there are two different types of groups. Neither group is wrong and both groups want an NFL type football game. In my opinion, the 2 groups aren't that far apart.

This is what I have seen as improvements to madden since 2006.

The have better presentation.
They have better run blocking.
They this year now have DE's that can get after the QB when the QB leaves the pocket.
Graphics have improved.
You say you like the tackling. Thats fine. Guess what though. In AP2k8 I can join in a gang tackle and influence it. You can't do that in Madden 2012. What you see now is a animation that plays out now when a cpu defender comes in and cleans up a tackle. (and a lot of the time the same animation plays out) If you run in on a tackle in progress you fall off or one of the players there before you falls off.

Thast not said to beat up Madden, thats said to point out, come on man, this needs to be beyond where we are now. Thats me. My POV. What, my POV dont matter because it goes against being a favorable POV towards Madden ? I can't NOT like maddens tackling ? I ain't telling you are wrong for liking it. If you can come in this forum and say you like it and why, I should be able to come in this forum and say I dont like it and why, without all the you have a agenda, you are a fan boy BS. Not saying you did that.

Thats it. 6 years and thats the sum of what we have.

# 126 bkrich83 @ 08/13/11 06:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TombSong


	In short, no where do I say Madden needs to play just like 2k5/2k8. ap2k8/2k5 were not flawless games, I can say that. I also did not say it was flawless. Madden or 2k being flawless aint even the point of the post which is always lost on guys to busy wanting to defend madden instead of stare at the truth about the game. No where do I imply anyone has to like 2k5/2k8. What in my post is factually not true ? Speak to that, not your anger to why someone has spoke a pov that you don't agree with about madden. For all of you about to bring up a issue about the post that was not even brought up in the post...please speak to what I am saying in the post...whats not true in it ?

Where is his anger? You should be more hypersensitive.

# 127 bkrich83 @ 08/13/11 06:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	" It's pretty hard to focus on the improvements that have been made when the improvements that haven't been made are so much more obvious.

This is coming from someone who really hasn't like a version of Madden, since well at least Madden 05, but I disagree with this statement. Maybe because my outlook is different because of my age, but I simply don't focus on what hasn't been added or improved on with the game.

Although to be honest I just play the game, and if it's fun and I enjoy it, I keep playing, if it's not, I don't. I don't over-analyze ever aspect of the game.

Also, as much as I loved 2k5, and I actually had some input on that game, there is some definite revisionist history when it comes to it's greatness.

# 128 roadman @ 08/13/11 06:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TombSong


	This is what I have seen as improvements to madden since 2006. The have better presentation. They have better run blocking. They this year now have DE's that can get after the QB when the QB leaves the pocket. Graphics have improved. You say you like the tackling. Thats fine. Guess what though. In AP2k8 I can join in a gang tackle and influence it. You can't do that in Madden 2012. What you see now is a animation that plays out now when a cpu defender comes in and cleans up a tackle. (and a lot of the time the same animation plays out) If you run in on a tackle in progress you fall off or one of the players there before you falls off. Thast not said to beat up Madden, thats said to point out, come on man, this needs to be beyond where we are now. Thats me. My POV. What, my POV dont matter because it goes against being a favorable POV towards Madden ? I can't NOT like maddens tackling ? I ain't telling you are wrong for liking it. If you can come in this forum and say you like it and why, I should be able to come in this forum and say I dont like it and why, without all the you have a agenda, you are a fan boy BS. Not saying you did that. Thats it. 6 years and thats the sum of what we have.

Whoa, there. Where's all the pent up anger coming from? Did you not read my post or just read what you wanted to.

I did say I agreed with most of your post and I did mention your not wrong and I'm not wrong for pointing out what I like.

I just don't know where you are coming from where you mention you can't like Madden's tackling system. Never once implied it or mentioned it.

Carry on, though.

# 129 TombSong @ 08/13/11 08:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Whoa, there. Where's all the pent up anger coming from? Did you not read my post or just read what you wanted to. I did say I agreed with most of your post and I did mention your not wrong and I'm not wrong for pointing out what I like. I just don't know where you are coming from where you mention you can't like Madden's tackling system. Never once implied it or mentioned it. Carry on, though.

I was not directing that directly towards you, thus why i said " not saying you did that" at the end of it. I was just using the tackling thing as an example of what goes on in the forum sometimes. No anger directed at you.

# 130 tril @ 08/13/11 08:20 PM

I like it.
based on the demo its an improvement from last year,
player movemnt is fluid. players seem more weighted. feels like theres gravity in this game
I love the tackling.
running game is nice
passing is easy but that has to do with the pro vs all pro setting.
game definetly looks lovely.
the flow of the game seems much more realistic.

the demo reminds me of a crisper looking APFK2k8 for some reason.

I enjoyed the game without the commentary, so that says alot, but hopefully EA will have improved that aspect of the game considerably.

I find that receivers still have an issue of knowing where the sidelines are but I get the impression that has to do with where the ball is placed on the field relative to where a receiver would break on an out route, which makes alot of sense. I found that if I released the ball sooner the receiver seemed to break sooner on the sideline plays.
I like this aspect of the game, but does probably need to be patched.

only played 2 games so far. and I enjoyed it. Ill be purchasing the game on release date.

# 131 bkrich83 @ 08/13/11 08:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	Hey, like I said, I'm not trying to start a big flame war here. I'm just really passionate about football and football video games. I've played football more than half my life, and other than the occasional good looking game here and there, football games are really the only one's I'm interested in. But it is just literally impossible for me to enjoy an EA football title for more than a couple weeks, tops (NCAA 12 has already been returned, and not because of the bugs). And there in lies the problem. I didn't just make a conscious decision to dislike Madden. I want more than anything to be having a great experience with these games. At first I thought maybe I just wasn't getting it, but I've come to realize I just hate how these games play on the field. They are so unbelievably underwhelming, and when I play a game like The Show, it just reinforces my feelings. If you're able to enjoy your experience, then by all means more power to you. I'm not here to change anyone's opinion, and I truly envy you if that's the case. But I think I speak for a lot of people when I say I will never understand how you guys can do it. The animations suck. The momentum sucks. The strategy sucks. And most importantly, the feel of realism really really sucks. These games just don't do anything for me, and that says a lot being that I'm a die hard football guy who's given them chance after chance after chance to impress me. Unfortunately, very little has changed.

I am not sure with how much football you played has to do with this. I can guarantee you, I've taken as many snaps in my life as anyone here, probably more, and it really has no bearing on this.

Realism is subjective. What's realistic to one person might not be to another person. The game is obviously not your cup of tea. That sucks but move on. If it's not fun, then find something else to do with your time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	As for 2K having a revisionist history, I have to strongly disagree there too. What made 2K5 so great was that it did something Madden has yet to do. It made an attempt to simulate real life football. Did it fall flat on it's face in many instances? You betcha. But even though it was made with greatly outdated technology, it was still able some beautiful simulation moments, moments that to me are where the bar is set still to this day, which is a shame. 2K8 improved greatly on the 2K5 engine, and is no doubt in my mind the greatest simulation of football us gamers have ever had. That is why I haven't been able to accept what EA has done. Had 2K never existed, I may be enjoying the hell out of NCAA right now. But I've seen that simulation could be attempted and almost succeed, 7 years ago with last gen technology. Then I saw the gameplay improvements 2K was able to make in leaps and bounds from 2K5 to 2K8, giving us the most realistic simulation to date. That is why I am unable to overlook the very underwhelming improvements that have been made to this franchise, because even with the improvements that are being touted in Madden 12, I am still unable to feel a players weight in the demo. I guess 2K ruined football gaming for me for a while. Oh well, I guess another year of carving up fictional players on fictional teams with Dan Marino. (all in my opinion)

You won't find a bigger 2k fan than me, like I said, I know the devs, I actually had some input in that game, but there's definite revisionist history going on. People seem to forget a lot of the issues the game had. People remember it in a much more glowing light.

As far as 2k trying to simulate real life football and EA not, i won't go in to that, I wasn't in design meetings with EA, I don't know what their focus was or wasn't.

# 132 spankdatazz22 @ 08/13/11 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrich83


	You won't find a bigger 2k fan than me, like I said, I know the devs, I actually had some input in that game, but there's definite revisionist history going on. People seem to forget a lot of the issues the game had. People remember it in a much more glowing light.

A similar effect occurred around here with Inside Drive. And that game essentially "died" from lack of broad interest, rather than exclusivity. For years there were people harping that NBA2K and Live couldn't touch Inside Drive's tendency features, and many hardcore ID fans would argue it was a better basketball game because of it. It took 2K and Live putting that argument to sleep permanantly to quiet any talk of ID.

I'd agree w/you that there's a bit of revisionist history that occurs when it comes to 2K5; it was far from perfect. At the same time, it seems it does compare somewhat favorably to Madden 12, which is pretty ridiculous at this point. The thing most responsible for 2K5's enduring legacy is Madden itself. And the longer it takes Madden to put 2K5 to rest, the more it enhances 2K5's legacy imo

# 133 bkrich83 @ 08/13/11 08:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	You lost me here haha

How so? Everyone's perception of football realism is quite different.

# 134 bkrich83 @ 08/13/11 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	A similar effect occurred around here with Inside Drive. And that game essentially "died" from lack of broad interest, rather than exclusivity. For years there were people harping that NBA2K and Live couldn't touch Inside Drive's tendency features, and many hardcore ID fans would argue it was a better basketball game because of it. It took 2K and Live putting that argument to sleep permanantly to quiet any talk of ID. I'd agree w/you that there's a bit of revisionist history that occurs when it comes to 2K5; it was far from perfect. At the same time, it seems it does compare somewhat favorably to Madden 12, which is pretty ridiculous at this point. The thing most responsible for 2K5's enduring legacy is Madden itself. And the longer it takes Madden to put 2K5 to rest, the more it enhances 2K5's legacy imo

As far as Madden 12 vs. 2k5, personally i think that argument has been put to bed. Well in theory, as I haven't played the M12 retail version yet.

I think what drives 2k5's enduring legacy has nothing to do with the actual game of Madden, but the anger that revolves around the license deal itself. Which I understand. What I don't understand is why EA is solely blamed for that deal. As if EA somehow had the ability to strong arm the NFL in to making that deal. Stupid.

# 135 tril @ 08/13/11 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	Well it shouldn't be. Anyone who says the player movement in Madden is realistic should lose all credibility in the conversation. I'm sure that has something to do with it for some people, but you can't honestly say that we would still be talking about 2K5 if Madden was where it should be by now, ergo Madden failing to improve is what makes us still consider 2K5 to be great. Which is sad, because as spankdatazz said, it's ridiculous that 2K5 is still in the conversation of best football game in 2011.

cosign
2k5 is 7 years old, and its now that people are comparing the Madden 12 demo to 2k5. I had said the Madden 12 demo reminded me of APF2k8. but
2k8 was a port of 2k5.

all I have to say is, if Madden 12 can remind folks of 2k5 or finally pass 2k5 then thats huge leap for Madden and us 2k fans who've been wanting/fiending for a football title to replace 2k5 on the current consoles (PS3/360).

I like the demo cant wait for the retail to be released. I have great hopes that this will be the year that I can get my NFL fix in all its glory, reminiscent of 2k5's glory days.

# 136 Hooe @ 08/13/11 09:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	Well it shouldn't be. Anyone who says the player movement in Madden is realistic should lose all credibility in the conversation.

I thought we threw realism out the door when we sat down to play a video game. If you want a realistic game of football, get some friends together and go play outside?

Nevertheless, determining the "realism" of a video game is indeed subjective; some of us have more (or less) insight as to what goes on on a football field than others, some of us want a low-scoring defensive chess match, some of us want domed high-scoring track meets, some of us want to grind it out with the run, some of us want to air it out all day. If someone doesn't get his desired result out of the game, he deems it "unrealistic" because it doesn't do what he expects it to do, whereas someone else with a different ideal can just as well call the same result the unsatisfied user got "realistic". How is that NOT subjective?

To your point, an argument that player movement in Madden is realistic insofar as the players walk, run, strafe, play zone coverage, run route, block, shed blocks, jump, catch, tackle, break tackles, etc. etc. None of the movements the players make are non-football movements; you don't see Sonic the Hedgehog flippy jumps, for example.

Quote:


	I'm sure that has something to do with it for some people, but you can't honestly say that we would still be talking about 2K5 if Madden was where it should be by now, ergo Madden failing to improve is what makes us still consider 2K5 to be great. Which is sad, because as spankdatazz said, it's ridiculous that 2K5 is still in the conversation of best football game in 2011.

The argument that Madden is not a better game than it was even a year ago, let alone five or six, is simply bananas.

And let's be honest, many people still talk about the other game because they are still bitter at the exclusive license situation and that has soured their respective opinions on the Madden franchise.

For the record, I really enjoyed the demo.

# 137 bkrich83 @ 08/13/11 09:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	Well it shouldn't be. Anyone who says the player movement in Madden is realistic should lose all credibility in the conversation.

As compared to 2k5? Again purely subjective. Realism in a football game is different for everyone..

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	I'm sure that has something to do with it for some people, but you can't honestly say that we would still be talking about 2K5 if Madden was where it should be by now, ergo Madden failing to improve is what makes us still consider 2K5 to be great. Which is sad, because as spankdatazz said, it's ridiculous that 2K5 is still in the conversation of best football game in 2011.

I believe we would still be talking about 2k5 no matter how great it was. I believe there are people here, who even if EA made the greatest football game ever made would still criticize it and compare it to 2k5 simply because of the license.

# 138 bichettehappens @ 08/13/11 09:24 PM

I'm going to have to find a used copy of APF2K8 or something because I have to see what all this incessant cheerleading is all about

Begs the question why there are so many people who hate EA and Madden who insist on still coming on the Madden boards griping and complaining.

We understand you don't like Madden, cool, fair enough, but is it really necessary to continually post on this side seemingly trying to convince people that you're right and they're wrong? I feel like I'm being approached by an argumentative Jehovah's witness on a bicycle every time I enter a thread that goes down this 2K vs EA road.

I loved 2K5 it was a great game, especially at the price, but if I want to talk about how great it was I'd do so in the 2K section of the boards.

# 139 spankdatazz22 @ 08/13/11 09:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrich83


	As far as Madden 12 vs. 2k5, personally i think that argument has been put to bed. Well in theory, as I haven't played the M12 retail version yet. I think what drives 2k5's enduring legacy has nothing to do with the actual game of Madden, but the anger that revolves around the license deal itself. Which I understand. What I don't understand is why EA is solely blamed for that deal. As if EA somehow had the ability to strong arm the NFL in to making that deal. Stupid.

It's really not just about 2K5; there are many times people bring up last gen Madden/NCAA, Backbreaker, or APF as examples also. That's why I used Inside Drive as an example. If The Show and MLB2K hadn't evolved beyond what MVP was doing, people would still be posting movies and wishing the game were still around. People actually do wish MVP was around, it's just that there are options that evolved beyond what MVP was. Madden really hasn't evolved beyond those games. People can make the case the OL/DL play was much better in 2K5 or APF. Or that the passing game/movement/sense of momentum better in last gen Madden/NCAA. Or that tackling better in Backbreaker. I'm not even sure tackling in Madden this year is beyond than what was being done in 2K5. From what I understand Frachise was much deeper in last gen Madden/NCAA. Madden/NCAA had far more extras like create-a-play, deep practice modes, etc. 2K5 and APF have far deeper penalty/challenge systems. While Presentation is much improved in M12, sadly we're still hearing excuses about the play-by-play. And halftime/postgame may as well be non-existent.

EA gets blame for the exclusive deal because most of the evidence points to their putting enough money on the table to make the deals difficult/impossible to refuse. By their own admission they were seeking exclusivity years before it happened. In order to believe EA doesn't foster most of the blame, you have to be willing to accept them signing the NCAA to an exclusive contract within a month (?) of the NFL exclusivity as simply being a coincidence. Most of us that around back then knew everything was in play; they were in active talks going after NBA exclusivity during that same period also.

That said I don't think people would care as much about exclusivity if they were producing a great game. It's not like Madden's retained the standing it had last gen - many people that dislike what the game became are Madden fans themselves.

# 140 K_GUN @ 08/13/11 09:29 PM

I was a 2k5 fanboy...go look up my posts

I think what guys like IntAssassin will find is that from here on out the *2k5 fan club* will continue to get smaller and smaller.

they are certainly entitled to express their opinion....but in time, nobody will be around to listen

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