Madden 12 News Post

Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

07:16 PM - August 10, 2011 by ChaseB

Contentious, heated, excitable. Whatever buzzword I use, it probably can't properly sum up the way things get around here once the Madden demo hits each year. It truly is exciting and terrifying all at once. The staff has been playing the demo like all you folks out there, and they have a wide range of views on the game.

So read on to find out what some of our writers think about the Madden 12 demo at this point.

Read More - Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

Game: Madden NFL 12Reader Score: 6.5/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS3 / Wii / Xbox 360Votes for game: 44 - View All

Madden NFL 12 Videos

Member Comments

# 101 guaps @ 08/12/11 05:34 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmakers


	What the heck is going on with you guys in this thread? Why is it all of sudden considered cheating if you tweak the gameplay sliders.... You are trying to accomplish something to deliver better gameplay for you right.....so why would it be cheating Did EA all of sudden release a manual that states if you move a slider up or down ut us now considered cheating....because in this thread along i've seen quite a few guys used that theory

I can only speak for myself, but I don't consider tweaking sliders as cheating per se. I do, however, feel that I'm sometime cheating the game to make up for poor AI. That is, creating an even larger amount of unrealistic situations to get better gameplay and\or stats.

If I have to make the defenders get off their blocks unrealistically fast when playing run defense, just so I can get some decent gameplay and better stats, I feel like I'm cheating.

But I guess it all depends on your point of view. For some, it's enough to have accurate stats, regardless of how unrealistic you get it, to get a feeling of realism in the game, while I don't care about accurate stats unless they are the product of realistic gameplay.

I still remember how Tiburon last year refused to acknowledge that the kick returning was unrealistic and broken with the argument that "people got accurate stats".

# 102 Armor and Sword @ 08/12/11 08:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaySmooov


	The bottom line is, this impression is very, VERY, VERY misleading, for these two simple reasons: 1) Making thoughtless assumptions, and 2) Failing to even do their due diligence in exploring the demo. First, you CAN spotlight a receiver. Press up on the pad (or get to the coverage audibles, basically), Press A/X for indiv. coverage, and pick the receiver. Then choose to spotlight him. Take's a lot of time at first, especially if you don't like the pad or aren't used to it, but after a while you memorize the button presses. Also, there is no play call screen because teams don't have TIME to scroll through a playbook and pick a play. In college, the clock stops when you get a 1st down, so you can scroll a little bit for a new formation. In the NFL, the clock keeps going. Seriously, when has a team had time to get a new play from the sideline during a 2-minute drill? [b] Um, maybe if you would've checked to see what the game speed was, you'd know that the game speed default this year was different that what it was last year. They didn't make the game faster. [b] The demo was submitted in May, right? That's what was posted on here, right? Or at least it was stated somewhere, couldn't exactly find it, but I know it's in the threads because I get all my Madden/NCAA info from OS. Regardless, you guys are in contact with devs, you EVEN have multiple devs who interact on OS, is it hard to send a PM asking, "Hey, this demo feels different from the E3 build, is this pre or post E3?" Also, how can Jayson and Steve imply that this demo is basically worse than the E3 build? This COULDN'T have been submitted after E3 because I can't see a game getting worse than what it previously was in 2 months unless they went in and changed stuff, which wouldn't really be possible since the game is typically finished a month before release. I don't mean to rant or anything, and I'm not defending EA in any way. I just wanted to express how much I felt this impression was misleading. Just MY opinion guys. Oh, and I love the demo

The thing with Madden today (and I actually am getting used to it now and like the challenge) is on defense you have about 5 seconds to make adjustments. IRL the same normally holds true unless there is motion (which the cpu does do sometimes) or an audible.

I use the quick link (old school adjustments) so everyone on PS3 knows triangle to adjust the secondary...then press X to activate spotlight, press appropriate button for player you want to highlight and adjust the shading or press or drop back....you have to know coming out of the huddle who you want to key on. If you do you can get in that adjustment and a line shift, LB shift, or individual hot route. Or if you come out of the huddle and see something you don't like...just call an old fashioned audible.

You can't adjust coverage, adjust line, adjust LB and assign an individual defensive hot route on one play.....not going to happen. We are not playing as multiple players on the defense...that is a con of the game but you can adjust.

And I am glad. Makes you really play chess which is what football is and make a decision or 2 on what adjustment you want to make based on being able to predict the oppositions next move. Down and distance, where they are on the field, what is the score...what point in the game are you in.

It's not that bad.

That to me makes the game a challenge.

# 103 kbseven @ 08/12/11 08:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaySmooov


	The bottom line is, this impression is very, VERY, VERY misleading, for these two simple reasons: 1) Making thoughtless assumptions, and 2) Failing to even do their due diligence in exploring the demo. First, you CAN spotlight a receiver. Press up on the pad (or get to the coverage audibles, basically), Press A/X for indiv. coverage, and pick the receiver. Then choose to spotlight him. Take's a lot of time at first, especially if you don't like the pad or aren't used to it, but after a while you memorize the button presses. Also, there is no play call screen because teams don't have TIME to scroll through a playbook and pick a play. In college, the clock stops when you get a 1st down, so you can scroll a little bit for a new formation. In the NFL, the clock keeps going. Seriously, when has a team had time to get a new play from the sideline during a 2-minute drill? [b] Um, maybe if you would've checked to see what the game speed was, you'd know that the game speed default this year was different that what it was last year. They didn't make the game faster. [b] The demo was submitted in May, right? That's what was posted on here, right? Or at least it was stated somewhere, couldn't exactly find it, but I know it's in the threads because I get all my Madden/NCAA info from OS. Regardless, you guys are in contact with devs, you EVEN have multiple devs who interact on OS, is it hard to send a PM asking, "Hey, this demo feels different from the E3 build, is this pre or post E3?" Also, how can Jayson and Steve imply that this demo is basically worse than the E3 build? This COULDN'T have been submitted after E3 because I can't see a game getting worse than what it previously was in 2 months unless they went in and changed stuff, which wouldn't really be possible since the game is typically finished a month before release. I don't mean to rant or anything, and I'm not defending EA in any way. I just wanted to express how much I felt this impression was misleading. Just MY opinion guys. Oh, and I love the demo

i agree with you everything you said 100%

# 104 Armor and Sword @ 08/12/11 12:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bucky60


	It goes the other way too. I game my impression and a was told all I needed to do was adjust sliders. That my impression was wrong. By multiple posters. You give any kind of negative impression that you have had to struggle with over the years and the other side of the fence that you are talking about pounces to say how wrong you are. Not even saying this year is good or bad, just giving my main gripe with the game returns a thrust of your wrong, use slider comments.

I don't disagree. I assume you read my entire post. We can be guilty of pounding the sand that our game is good if you think it is not.

# 105 schmit_95 @ 08/12/11 12:36 PM

I think the demo is same old thing. Shiny new paint, same busted engine.
One thing though, please excuse me if this is a "dumb" question, but why is 35 the perfect threshhold speed number? If you want the greatest distance between speed players, wouldnt zero be the best number? Truthfully I dont even think the thing works, just my opinion though.

And also, when the hell are we gonna get pro bowl helmets? Not just the A or N for the confrences? Jeez PS@ had that in 2001!!

# 106 spankdatazz22 @ 08/12/11 04:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JaySmooov


	Why would they build a new engine when the Xbox 360 and PS3 are nearing the end of their cycles? In 2-3 years we'll have new systems, it makes much more sense financially and logically to build a engine optimized for the new system technology, rather than building an engine now, then having to tweak and alter it for the new systems. Actually think logically about what you're saying before typing.

It's what 2K did with NBA2K and (I think) 989 did with The Show. I remember people faulting 2K in particular for not having a brand new engine when they made the next gen jump, but the series has progressed/evolved to become the best basketball game to date. I'm not as familar with The Show's progression but it is remarkably similar to what it was doing last gen and it's the best baseball game to date.

Madden/NCAA/Live tried to implement new engines w/the next gen jump and they all struggled. I don't think anyone wants to go through another 3-6yr cycle of growing pains while Tiburon familarizes themselves with the hardware (assuming the exclusives continue). MVP was in great position to make the next gen jump, since they had done a massive upgrade during last gen. The case can be made for trying to do massive improvements now rather than put band-aid on top of band-aid to hide deeply buried issues.

# 107 Tomba @ 08/12/11 09:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BlueNGold


	What I like is the fact you can kick long field goals and not be guaranteed to make them every time. Maybe that will change after getting used to the new kicking meter but so far it's been really good.

exactly. Plus the view is great. I actually look forward to kicking it through the uprights now for the first time EVER . I do have to admit that that rugby demo has a pretty cool kicking cam as well

# 108 Tomba @ 08/12/11 10:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by guaps


	I can only speak for myself, but I don't consider tweaking sliders as cheating per se. I do, however, feel that I'm sometime cheating the game to make up for poor AI. That is, creating an even larger amount of unrealistic situations to get better gameplay and\or stats. If I have to make the defenders get off their blocks unrealistically fast when playing run defense, just so I can get some decent gameplay and better stats, I feel like I'm cheating. But I guess it all depends on your point of view. For some, it's enough to have accurate stats, regardless of how unrealistic you get it, to get a feeling of realism in the game, while I don't care about accurate stats unless they are the product of realistic gameplay. I still remember how Tiburon last year refused to acknowledge that the kick returning was unrealistic and broken with the argument that "people got accurate stats".

For those of us who do slider work it depends on the mentality. I myself have always wanted the smoothest gameplay experience possible and if that meant putting it on the easiest difficulty and then tweaking the sliders up in order for animations to play out right I'd do it.

And i'd do it in away that would not sacrifice the realism of the sport.

But yeah if you put up the passing meter so that it's easier to score than yeah THATS cheating lol.

# 109 Playmakers @ 08/13/11 03:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tomba


	For those of us who do slider work it depends on the mentality. I myself have always wanted the smoothest gameplay experience possible and if that meant putting it on the easiest difficulty and then tweaking the sliders up in order for animations to play out right I'd do it. And i'd do it in away that would not sacrifice the realism of the sport. But yeah if you put up the passing meter so that it's easier to score than yeah THATS cheating lol.

After playing the demo I think this game is very user friendly with sliders....you can tell right away the change in gameplay once you tweak a specific slider

For example the pass reaction slider there's no doubt in my mind it works unlike NCAA 12 where everything seems to be broken or backwards with sliders LOL!

It's gonna be a fun year for me personally with Madden 12

# 110 TombSong @ 08/13/11 07:29 AM

Lets be real here and not talk around the issue because its here and is nevr going away.

There are those who are content with status quo from EA. There are those who don't know no better because they think what EA has offered to date is all that there is and can possibly be done. This group typically are the ones who make excuses for the games current state and expects everyone else to just fall in line like they have and just be content with less as they have. To that group I say, nothing wrong with that. If you are happy with what you got in your hands this year, I am glad you have peace and I aint mad at yah.

There is another group that has seen better times, that have not forgotten what they had in other games. That groups standards are a bit higher than the others. So each year this group seeks a improvement on what they once had. Is there anything wrong with that ? Why can't this be discussed in a civil manner instead of treating a forum full of grown men like 12 year olds ?(discounting the guys who are actually 12 years old)

4 years ago a group of us could expect to see certain features and game play. That has been taken away from us by a "license deal".

No matter what group you fall into and to the OS reviewers when you pick up this years Madden ask yourself can I:

1. Can I come out lined up in one formation then shift into the playcall formation for added strategy ?

2. Can I send more than one man in motion from any legal motion position(even after the formation shift) ?

3. Can I adjust my offensive line to double team the left DT or the right DT ?

4. Can I disguise my defensive coverage 1/2/3 deep with coverage shells ?

5. Can I easily make hot adjustments to my LBs and DBs without having to cycle through them all thus less micro management pre-snap ?

6. Can I get a play diagram to look at when calling audibles, not just a play name ?

7. Can I adjust those audibles on the fly while calling my play at the play call screen...no need to pause the game...no limit to the amount of audibles you can call ?

8. Can I call my Dline stunts separate from my play call and included in those stunts are twists left/middle/right side of the line...and hey work during run plays ? (Madden 12 your adjustments only work on pass plays, on run plays they get sucked into whatever the offensive line is doing...and you cant call twist stunts at all)

9. Can player abilities make each player have a distinct playability giving them a personality that is lacking in madden. Can the cpu run each team differently as though it has a game plan thus you dont feel like you are playing the same team and same coach over and over ?

10. Can I record how your friends play and make the cpu call plays like you friend would ?

11. Can there be 4 depth adjustments you can make(only 1 in madden) for the DBs plus you can shade inside or outside and do it much easier then the current madden 12 setup ?

12. Can there be Mulitple hit gang tackling where you the user can come in and actually influence the direction the tackle is going..plus you can reach out and grab ball carriers if engaged in a block ?

13. Can there be a multple choice penalty challenge system that works ?

PLUS:
Commentary that sounds like the commentators are in the same booth watching the same game, better animations, bigger player models, smarter AI, no warping, no psychic DBs, no super leaping LBs , no mario running, player specific jukes and running styles....(2k5 has a half time show that has not been matched to date) great presentation(Madden has just caught up)

This was ALL possible 4 years ago. Is it unreasonable to expect those things to be in a game thats newer ? A standard was set that most game review sites ignore when they discuss Madden. Madden is not held to that standard. Madden is only compared to other Madden games. Do you who so staunchly defend it think thats right ?

To those who get upset by the comparisons, how can you get angry at reality ? Reviewers, what in the game of Madden 12 is ground breaking ? What is the games strong points ?

What I see:

1. A marginal graphic improvement...If someone had Madden 11 playing on my TV and said it was Madden 12, I could not tell by looking that they were telling a lie. Not speaking cutscenes or overlays here. Talking about what I see the most when playing this game, the players and the field.

2. Zig Zag player movement is slightly worse in this version than last years(probably because the game speed is faster)

3. Still have players that are unaware of the sidelines, I mean run their routes right out of bounds.

4. If you notice, if a WR is in a catch animation where he turns to face the ball and is standing still, his jump ball animation seems to make the defender AI go on full ******, they either wont try to defend the pass, or go into a WR catch animation, while the WR is jumping to catch the ball. If you try and manually defend you either can't move, or are put in a swat while on the ground animation or WR catch animation, WTF ?

5. Warping is STILL a big issue.

6. Suction blocking is STILL a issue. I actually got blocked by a offensive lineman that was in a get up off the ground animation.

7. You cant make football reads in a lot of cases when passing, you have to make "madden" reads because you can't believe what you are seeing. The defenders body language and momentum/direction they are running mean nothing. The instant you hit that pass button the whole Madden reality changes. The defenders make moves and changes directions in ways that would make a UFO jealous.

There are those of us who play this game in spite of itself. We play it because our friends play it. Thats what makes it fun...playing with our friends, not the game itself. You will have those that will scream at me and say, well make slider adjustments, or , oh you just dont know how to play the game, and thoseare the SAME people who won't play a soul online...WHY ? Is it because the game they love allows a lot of BS and is broken ? Yet they expect me to absolutely LOVE it ?

I am tired of typing...........This Demo is a 7.

# 111 bkrich83 @ 08/13/11 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by timotomtime


	my dude, what everyone wants is a better football game and madden simply isnt getting it done..... 2k is far from trash..... u may personally not like it but that doesnt make it a piece of crap. Madden has added alot of features that have been in previous games on previous generations but they are dancing around the real challenge of a RTPE (real-time-physics-engine). Its an increadibly hard thing to build while presentation and camera angles are piece of cake. ALot of people beileve if 2k was around, they would have accomplished this before backbreaker, madden would have probibly as well if they were pushed at all. madden needs to acknolage the elephant in the room or they are toast, 2k is already trying to free up capital for the licence and they can easy dip into 2k11 basketballs 300$ million dollars they made last year.....

Where are you getting this info from?

# 112 roadman @ 08/13/11 01:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TombSong


	So each year this group seeks a improvement on what they once had. Is there anything wrong with that ?

I'm assuming you haven't seen improvement up to this stage.

I agreed with most of your post, but to say there is no improvement towards the past competitor games is not really realistic.

The camera areas itself make it like a TV broadcast presentation, which you admitted when you said EA has caught up.

The tackling is improved immensely and more towards the other games. No more huggy feely protak type tackles.

Does it have a ways to go? You bet it does, but this is the first time since Madden 10 I'm happy the direction in which the series is going.

Like you said, there are two different types of groups. Neither group is wrong and both groups want an NFL type football game.

In my opinion, the 2 groups aren't that far apart.

# 113 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 08/13/11 01:24 PM

Why exactly are we supposed to assume 2k would have come up with a real-time physics engine before Backbreaker, when, correct me if I'm wrong, NBA 2k11 didn't even have "real-time" physics, and that was their best game?

# 114 Fr8Train @ 08/13/11 01:43 PM

I'll be honest.
When 2k5 came out, it wasn't the Glorified Cult Classic game that it is now.

It sold maybe just under 3 million world wide in 2005, while Madden sold just over 6.1 million in its first 10 weeks, I believe. This despite the $19.99 price tag or $21.99, or whatever cheapness it was.

The game play was horrendous, but the physics/graphics engine was better. That really was the only thing going for it.

Like most people, I don't care for the cut scenes, the intros, the halftime show...I click X to advance past those as quick as possible.

2k5 became a cult classic as soon as it lost its license. Then somehow it became the standard.... when it had just as many shortcomings a Madden did, if not more.

Truth is, both games had major issues. Where EA struggled, 2k5 thrived, and where 2k5 struggled, EA thrived.

# 115 michigan21 @ 08/13/11 01:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TombSong


	Lets be real here and not talk around the issue because its here and is nevr going away. There are those who are content with status quo from EA. There are those who don't know no better because they think what EA has offered to date is all that there is and can possibly be done. This group typically are the ones who make excuses for the games current state and expects everyone else to just fall in line like they have and just be content with less as they have. To that group I say, nothing wrong with that. If you are happy with what you got in your hands this year, I am glad you have peace and I aint mad at yah. There is another group that has seen better times, that have not forgotten what they had in other games. That groups standards are a bit higher than the others. So each year this group seeks a improvement on what they once had. Is there anything wrong with that ? Why can't this be discussed in a civil manner instead of treating a forum full of grown men like 12 year olds ?(discounting the guys who are actually 12 years old) 4 years ago a group of us could expect to see certain features and game play. That has been taken away from us by a "license deal". No matter what group you fall into and to the OS reviewers when you pick up this years Madden ask yourself can I: 1. Can I come out lined up in one formation then shift into the playcall formation for added strategy ? 2. Can I send more than one man in motion from any legal motion position(even after the formation shift) ? 3. Can I adjust my offensive line to double team the left DT or the right DT ? 4. Can I disguise my defensive coverage 1/2/3 deep with coverage shells ? 5. Can I easily make hot adjustments to my LBs and DBs without having to cycle through them all thus less micro management pre-snap ? 6. Can I get a play diagram to look at when calling audibles, not just a play name ? 7. Can I adjust those audibles on the fly while calling my play at the play call screen...no need to pause the game...no limit to the amount of audibles you can call ? 8. Can I call my Dline stunts separate from my play call and included in those stunts are twists left/middle/right side of the line...and hey work during run plays ? (Madden 12 your adjustments only work on pass plays, on run plays they get sucked into whatever the offensive line is doing...and you cant call twist stunts at all) 9. Can player abilities make each player have a distinct playability giving them a personality that is lacking in madden. Can the cpu run each team differently as though it has a game plan thus you dont feel like you are playing the same team and same coach over and over ? 10. Can I record how your friends play and make the cpu call plays like you friend would ? 11. Can there be 4 depth adjustments you can make(only 1 in madden) for the DBs plus you can shade inside or outside and do it much easier then the current madden 12 setup ? 12. Can there be Mulitple hit gang tackling where you the user can come in and actually influence the direction the tackle is going..plus you can reach out and grab ball carriers if engaged in a block ? 13. Can there be a multple choice penalty challenge system that works ? PLUS: Commentary that sounds like the commentators are in the same booth watching the same game, better animations, bigger player models, smarter AI, no warping, no psychic DBs, no super leaping LBs , no mario running, player specific jukes and running styles....(2k5 has a half time show that has not been matched to date) great presentation(Madden has just caught up) This was ALL possible 4 years ago. Is it unreasonable to expect those things to be in a game thats newer ? A standard was set that most game review sites ignore when they discuss Madden. Madden is not held to that standard. Madden is only compared to other Madden games. Do you who so staunchly defend it think thats right ? To those who get upset by the comparisons, how can you get angry at reality ? Reviewers, what in the game of Madden 12 is ground breaking ? What is the games strong points ? What I see: 1. A marginal graphic improvement...If someone had Madden 11 playing on my TV and said it was Madden 12, I could not tell by looking that they were telling a lie. Not speaking cutscenes or overlays here. Talking about what I see the most when playing this game, the players and the field. 2. Zig Zag player movement is slightly worse in this version than last years(probably because the game speed is faster) 3. Still have players that are unaware of the sidelines, I mean run their routes right out of bounds. 4. If you notice, if a WR is in a catch animation where he turns to face the ball and is standing still, his jump ball animation seems to make the defender AI go on full ******, they either wont try to defend the pass, or go into a WR catch animation, while the WR is jumping to catch the ball. If you try and manually defend you either can't move, or are put in a swat while on the ground animation or WR catch animation, WTF ? 5. Warping is STILL a big issue. 6. Suction blocking is STILL a issue. I actually got blocked by a offensive lineman that was in a get up off the ground animation. 7. You cant make football reads in a lot of cases when passing, you have to make "madden" reads because you can't believe what you are seeing. The defenders body language and momentum/direction they are running mean nothing. The instant you hit that pass button the whole Madden reality changes. The defenders make moves and changes directions in ways that would make a UFO jealous. There are those of us who play this game in spite of itself. We play it because our friends play it. Thats what makes it fun...playing with our friends, not the game itself. You will have those that will scream at me and say, well make slider adjustments, or , oh you just dont know how to play the game, and thoseare the SAME people who won't play a soul online...WHY ? Is it because the game they love allows a lot of BS and is broken ? Yet they expect me to absolutely LOVE it ? I am tired of typing...........This Demo is a 7.

Very well said. You have basically said everything I said and thought going back to 2005. Its not starting a war, it really is holding up a mirror to the Madden series. They have yet to blow the doors off the series. I know some people say its not a big deal to have a halftime show, or presentation like that. Its simply is immersion into the game your playing at that time. There are so many things that happen during a game of Madden and Ncaa that snaps you back to the fact that your playing a game of Madden or Ncaa, not football. There is simply no excuse why Madden or Ncaa presentation, immersion, glitches that effect gameplay, draft presentation, etc.

# 116 WhiteMan22 @ 08/13/11 03:37 PM

I enjoyed the demo for what is worth. Played around 5 or 6 games. But I will not be playing it anymore.

I loved the demo, I feel as if it was way different than Madden 11 and in a good way. I will be getting this game release day.

# 117 bodean @ 08/13/11 04:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by WhiteMan22


	I enjoyed the demo for what is worth. Played around 5 or 6 games. But I will not be playing it anymore. I loved the demo, I feel as if it was way different than Madden 11 and in a good way. I will be getting this game release day.

Would never run out on Release Day to buy a sports game. Bring on Patch 1.

# 118 Yeah...THAT Guy @ 08/13/11 05:02 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin


	Couldn't disagree more

It really did have a lot of flaws in the game though. I honestly don't even remember Madden 05, but NFL 2k5 definitely had some issues.

# 119 Playmakers @ 08/13/11 05:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TombSong


	Lets be real here and not talk around the issue because its here and is nevr going away. There are those who are content with status quo from EA. There are those who don't know no better because they think what EA has offered to date is all that there is and can possibly be done. This group typically are the ones who make excuses for the games current state and expects everyone else to just fall in line like they have and just be content with less as they have. To that group I say, nothing wrong with that. If you are happy with what you got in your hands this year, I am glad you have peace and I aint mad at yah. There is another group that has seen better times, that have not forgotten what they had in other games. That groups standards are a bit higher than the others. So each year this group seeks a improvement on what they once had. Is there anything wrong with that ? Why can't this be discussed in a civil manner instead of treating a forum full of grown men like 12 year olds ?(discounting the guys who are actually 12 years old) 4 years ago a group of us could expect to see certain features and game play. That has been taken away from us by a "license deal". No matter what group you fall into and to the OS reviewers when you pick up this years Madden ask yourself can I: 1. Can I come out lined up in one formation then shift into the playcall formation for added strategy ? 2. Can I send more than one man in motion from any legal motion position(even after the formation shift) ? 3. Can I adjust my offensive line to double team the left DT or the right DT ? 4. Can I disguise my defensive coverage 1/2/3 deep with coverage shells ? 5. Can I easily make hot adjustments to my LBs and DBs without having to cycle through them all thus less micro management pre-snap ? 6. Can I get a play diagram to look at when calling audibles, not just a play name ? 7. Can I adjust those audibles on the fly while calling my play at the play call screen...no need to pause the game...no limit to the amount of audibles you can call ? 8. Can I call my Dline stunts separate from my play call and included in those stunts are twists left/middle/right side of the line...and hey work during run plays ? (Madden 12 your adjustments only work on pass plays, on run plays they get sucked into whatever the offensive line is doing...and you cant call twist stunts at all) 9. Can player abilities make each player have a distinct playability giving them a personality that is lacking in madden. Can the cpu run each team differently as though it has a game plan thus you dont feel like you are playing the same team and same coach over and over ? 10. Can I record how your friends play and make the cpu call plays like you friend would ? 11. Can there be 4 depth adjustments you can make(only 1 in madden) for the DBs plus you can shade inside or outside and do it much easier then the current madden 12 setup ? 12. Can there be Mulitple hit gang tackling where you the user can come in and actually influence the direction the tackle is going..plus you can reach out and grab ball carriers if engaged in a block ? 13. Can there be a multple choice penalty challenge system that works ? PLUS: Commentary that sounds like the commentators are in the same booth watching the same game, better animations, bigger player models, smarter AI, no warping, no psychic DBs, no super leaping LBs , no mario running, player specific jukes and running styles....(2k5 has a half time show that has not been matched to date) great presentation(Madden has just caught up) This was ALL possible 4 years ago. Is it unreasonable to expect those things to be in a game thats newer ? A standard was set that most game review sites ignore when they discuss Madden. Madden is not held to that standard. Madden is only compared to other Madden games. Do you who so staunchly defend it think thats right ? To those who get upset by the comparisons, how can you get angry at reality ? Reviewers, what in the game of Madden 12 is ground breaking ? What is the games strong points ? What I see: 1. A marginal graphic improvement...If someone had Madden 11 playing on my TV and said it was Madden 12, I could not tell by looking that they were telling a lie. Not speaking cutscenes or overlays here. Talking about what I see the most when playing this game, the players and the field. 2. Zig Zag player movement is slightly worse in this version than last years(probably because the game speed is faster) 3. Still have players that are unaware of the sidelines, I mean run their routes right out of bounds. 4. If you notice, if a WR is in a catch animation where he turns to face the ball and is standing still, his jump ball animation seems to make the defender AI go on full ******, they either wont try to defend the pass, or go into a WR catch animation, while the WR is jumping to catch the ball. If you try and manually defend you either can't move, or are put in a swat while on the ground animation or WR catch animation, WTF ? 5. Warping is STILL a big issue. 6. Suction blocking is STILL a issue. I actually got blocked by a offensive lineman that was in a get up off the ground animation. 7. You cant make football reads in a lot of cases when passing, you have to make "madden" reads because you can't believe what you are seeing. The defenders body language and momentum/direction they are running mean nothing. The instant you hit that pass button the whole Madden reality changes. The defenders make moves and changes directions in ways that would make a UFO jealous. There are those of us who play this game in spite of itself. We play it because our friends play it. Thats what makes it fun...playing with our friends, not the game itself. You will have those that will scream at me and say, well make slider adjustments, or , oh you just dont know how to play the game, and thoseare the SAME people who won't play a soul online...WHY ? Is it because the game they love allows a lot of BS and is broken ? Yet they expect me to absolutely LOVE it ? I am tired of typing...........This Demo is a 7.

No disrespect man but it sounds like to me you want Madden to be NFL 2K5

What i don't understand is why some people feel just because they enjoyed NFL 2K5 everyone else should feel the same way.

I'm not defending EA for their issues but sometimes i think some guys honestly believe NFL 2K5 was flawless. If that game was great for you fine but there are some us who actually found flaws in NFL 2K5 that turn us off with the gameplay.

I mean seriously complaining about the graphics not being upgraded by much it's still better than any graphics I've ever seen in 2K football

To act like DB's in 2K5 didn't have their flaws just as much as Madden is just basically doing what some of us do with Madden ignore the flaws.....

I'm not going to write a journal compiling a list of things a game from 6 years ago did wrong it's not worth my time......but the bottom line is some of you guys obvioulsy have yet to move on and every year we have to hear about what a company out of business used to do

I like Troy Aikman better than Tony Romo but guess what he ain't coming back to satisfy my fan experience when watching the Cowboys....

Seems to me the Madden crowd aren't the guys trying to convince anyone of anything.....it's the small 2K5 crowd that comes us over here every year trying to convince the Madden crowd that the game ain't great or it can't stack up to the holy grail which was 2K5.....

It seems like to me that some of the people who were in love with 2K5 only purchase Madden or rent Madden to compile a laundry list of things the game does wrong when compaired to 2K5 each year.

I'm sorry but if i didn't like a game there's no way in hell I'm going to spend $60 bucks just to see how it stacks up vs a game from 6 years ago

If your not a fan of the Madden series i'm pretty sure there's nothing EA can do with the gameplay to make you love the series accept one thing and one thing only make the game play like NFL 2K5

I'm tired of typing NFL 2K5 is DEAD!

# 120 Skyboxer @ 08/13/11 05:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Yeah...THAT Guy


	It really did have a lot of flaws in the game though. I honestly don't even remember Madden 05, but NFL 2k5 definitely had some issues.

I loved 2k but yeah it had its share of issues like the money corner routes etc...
Its just become a cult game over time and gets better every year.

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Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions