Madden 12 News Post

Phil Frazier is Leaving EA Sports Tiburon

12:19 AM - June 17, 2011 by illwill10

According to Pastapadre and Kotaku, Phil Frazier (Executive Producer for Madden NFL) is the latest to leave EA Sports Tiburon.

Quote:


	"It is currently uncertain where he is headed however two prime possibilities are Row Sham Bow � the new social gaming company started by former Tiburon GM Philip Holt � or the massive social gaming company Zynga which has taken on several former Tiburon employees in the last year."

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Member Comments

# 301 bkrich83 @ 06/18/11 01:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	Am I the only one who gets annoyed when people, who have programming experience, turn up their noses at people who don't ? It's as if you think people need experience in software development to figure out that if a game ran better and did more things, on a inferior platform, then something is wrong with the engine, or people developing a game on that engine. It's funny how people only reveal their programming experience when they want to tell another person that they don't no what they're talking about. Rarely do these people use their programming, software development, or whatever, to provide insight as to why Madden is years behind where it should be.

You missed the point. But that is not surprising. Nor is it that you got defensive. Your intentions have always but quite clear.

# 302 Only1LT @ 06/18/11 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottdau


	Constructive criticism is fine with me, but attacking devs and bitching and complaining is taking it to far. Especially when no one is forcing you to buy the game.

Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

# 303 bkrich83 @ 06/18/11 01:32 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

I disagree. I am not pro Madden or the opposite. But too many people use the "I only want to improve the game" shield when it's quite obvious what their motives are.

# 304 Only1LT @ 06/18/11 01:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Scottdau


	Well I would say a lot of people that got to play it at E3 had a great time playing it and this this was an alpha version. I am going to go out on a limb and say when I play Madden 12 this year I will have more WOW moments that WTF moments. And to be honest that is all I really care about in a video game.

I hear you and I hope you enjoy the game.

I can't speak for anyone but myself, but just because I talk about issues with the game, doesn't mean I'm anti Madden or anti EA. I love the Giants, Knicks, and Mets, but if they do a trade or something that I don't agree with, or if there are moves that I feel they should make to get better, then when I talk to other Giants/Knicks/Mets fans, I will talk about those things, whether in person, or on a forum. I don't do so thinking that Jerry Reese or Walsh or Coughlin, or who ever is going to see my post and do what I suggested. I just enjoy the conversation.

The same goes for Madden.

# 305 Illustrator76 @ 06/18/11 01:35 PM

Man, I am really getting sick of all of these "agenda" accusations. Can people just get off of telling others what their motives are? No one really knows why someone is posting something on here unless they flat out say: "I am posting X, Y and Z because I have an agenda". It really just seems like a lame way to discredit what others are saying because they bested you in the "debate".

This goes for both sides of the discussion.

# 306 BrianFifaFan @ 06/18/11 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by K_GUN


	for the guys that are (annually) disappointed with madden....why not update your 2k5 rosters and go about your business?...don't have an xbox?...go buy one...instead of spending $ on madden. dropping in here every summer and pointing out what everyone who's ever played a football videogame already knows (7 times over ) seems pointless....doesn't it?

I agree with the first part of your post, to a point, but the second point is really invalid. I, like you, was a big 2k5 head. And while Chris Berman and his bad lip sync was cool circa 2004, it's played out. So if I want to play an update NFL football gaming experience, it's Madden or nothing. And that brings up the larger topic of this message board in general. One could really make the argument that it's all a waste of time. My thoughts are this: if all this board is for is to rain undying praise and loyalty on the newest offering of the Madden gods, it might as well not exist. It's just part of the PR machine.

I've read countless posts of legimate ideas that could improve Madden into being a game that will make 2k a moot point, forever. Most of them are gameplay related, an area where Madden ends up falling way short of even the modern sports-gaming comp, let alone the ancient 2k football games. I've had my "Captain Obvious" moments, but have personally done my best to always offer up ideas that other games have used to become sports gaming leaders. Anyone who's known me for a minute knows I get my kicks off Fifa. Guess what? It's the best selling sports game in the world now. So my using it for examples of what makes a winning game are pretty valid, IMO. I can't ever say any of them where my ideas. But I felt it helpful to share them with the developers of one of my all-time favorite games in Madden.

In closing, I'd just like to say that it's the malcontents and concerned citizens of the gaming world who drive change. Guys like BeZo and LBzRule got the invite by being concerned gamers, not cheerleaders. AJ was a person who said this game needs fixed, he was not a gushing fan. His ideas got him a job. So while you have an opinion that people should "give it a rest, already," it's the ones who speak out, who offer ideas and care enough to spend their own money and time on websites dedicated to Madden and other games who get things changed. I personally have never cared for "trolls," but really respect the guys who use this board as a voice. It might seem old year after year, but the issues still remain, year after year.... And if we ran out of things to opine about, this board would cease to have any useful reason for being.... "Yay, Madden, Madden is king, I love Madden...." gets real old, real fast, doesn't it? Peace....

# 307 roadman @ 06/18/11 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	Agreed, but I think there is far, far less of the attacking posts than most people perceive. And if those that more on the pro side of Madden are honest with themselves, and look at things objectively, they'd probably see that they often lump all criticism into the personal attacking, agenda post pot.

Nah, LT I need to disagree with you personally on this one. I don't see constructive posting as a personal attack/agenda post.

# 308 Only1LT @ 06/18/11 01:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrich83


	I disagree. I am not pro Madden or the opposite. But too many people use the "I only want to improve the game" shield when it's quite obvious what their motives are.

You may or may not be right, but I think that it is a risky proposition to think that you can tell someone's "obvious" intent over an internet post all the time. Especially when we don't know most of the people on here personally.

Just saying.

# 309 bkrich83 @ 06/18/11 01:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	You may or may not be right, but I think that it is a risky proposition to think that you can tell someone's "obvious" intent over an internet post all the time. Especially when we don't know most of the people on here personally. Just saying.

Over a period of time it becomes quite obvious. I can see why you want to give them a pass.

It's just become so hard to filter out the white noise.

# 310 Only1LT @ 06/18/11 01:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by roadman


	Nah, LT I need to disagree with you personally on this one. I don't see constructive posting as a personal attack/agenda post.

That's you personally, but I think some do. Just my experience.

I've been lumped into the attacking camp many times, and I have never said a single thing about Ian and Co personally, ever.

# 311 Only1LT @ 06/18/11 01:50 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrich83


	Over a period of time it becomes quite obvious. I can see why you want to give them a pass. It's just become so hard to filter out the white noise.

I don't know if you are being passive aggressive in your statements such as the one I have bolded. You come off to me as someone who has a personal disdain for other posters and an air of superiority. Hard to tell, because it is written and subject to interpretation, but if you have a problem with me, I'd rather you just say it and I will just not respond to you further.

# 312 bkrich83 @ 06/18/11 01:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Illustrator76


	I'd like to ask a serious question. What are the people's agenda when it comes to Madden and what do they gain from having one? 2K ain't coming back until there is an NFL license, so I don't get it. Also, what constitutes someone clearly having an "agenda" and how do you discern between that and strong constructive criticism?

They have nothing to gain. As you say 2k is not coming back unfortunately.

They are easy to spot. Posts are usually filled with vitriol and half truths. They show up in every thread and repeat themselves. They can take any thread topic and turn in to an opportunity to take a shot at Madden. They usually know who they are. They get offended when someone suggests it.

# 313 edaddy @ 06/18/11 01:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	This agenda nonsense needs to stop. No one has an AGENDA. That is ridiculous. We are not 12. Is someone trying to organize a protest outside of Tiburon or something? Give me a break. The posts are made because people want the game to be good. If anything, I see more "agenda" coming from the guys who blindly defend the game. Blindly defending or blindly criticizing is all the same in my book. How about being a realist and calling it like you see it? I'll admit, I'm a harsh critic of madden and the dev team. I am also someone who is the first to give them major kudos when they get something right. I want Madden to be the greatest football game ever made. If that's an agenda, then I guess I have one. This is a discussion board, it generates good discussion and gives people a broad perspective on things. One thing I do agree on is personal attacks. Those are unacceptable. These guys have lives and are people doing their job. It's fine to say they do not do their job all that well if that's how you feel, but name calling and other slurs is something I think we can all do without.

Great post man...I have learned to filter out the posts of those that defend the game and the developers at nauseam (and we all now who they are), as well as the posts of those that complain constantly but without any constructive criticism or solutions to back it up(and we all know who they are as well).....Thing is everyone is entitled to their opinion and I never understood why people respond in a condescending matter because there opinion is different then yours ,if you dont like it simply ignore..lol....great post man

# 314 slickdtc @ 06/18/11 02:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by adembroski


	Not a coincidence at all that the first Madden you're interested in after 6 years is the one when Ian and Phil had 3 years to put their mark on the game. Not a coincidence at all. Ian took over as Lead Designer, and Phil as Senior Producer just prior to the release of Madden 09... Madden 09 was still firmly a David Ortiz production. For Madden 10, the team bit off a bit more than it could chew in one cycle, but you can start to see the creative direction. Madden 11 had Real Assignment AI and Locomotion, two very big technologies and bring it just a bit closer to being sim, and then you have Madden 12, where our focus has been eliminating suction and really focusing on presentation. Now, to sit here and say it was all Ian and Phil would be wrong. It leaves out the efforts of dozens of engineers, artists, designers, and testers, all of whom have contributed to where Madden has come and where its going. I've said before, one of Ian's greatest legacies is going to be his committment to creating tools that will allow us to do more year over year going forward. One of Phil's greatest legacies is going to be one of leadership and direction that put this team on the right path. Madden 13 and going forward are going to be awesome games, and it's unfortunate that Ian and Phil are going to be seen as the people who were holding us back simply because of the timing of their departure. The truth, however, is that where we go from here owes a lot to the path they put is on. It bares pointing out that Madden 12 is really "Year 2" in Ian's 3 year plan, as Madden 11 ran into unforeseen difficulties in production that kept it from being the YoY leap from M10 that it was supposed to be. Still, some of the technological improvements on M11 are going to be central to the overall push we make for the next few years. Again, Loco and RAI are both huge advances in Madden in general, and both need continual improvement, but they're a foundation to work from and, more importantly, an example of a new thinking at EA that hasn't changed with Ian and Phil's departure.

Why are Ian & Phil leaving? I have Madden 10, and still play it. I really like the game. It has flaws, no doubt, but I'd say it's a good game and definitely pointed the game in a new direction that seems to be slowly continuing in. So I do agree that Ian was an overall positive influence on the Madden series. But if it was so positive, why is he out? And that's a serious question, and I'm sure there are a number of factors.

As for M11 running into technical difficulties... that's a poor excuse. For as humongous as the Madden series is, it has to be at the top of its game. I understand "it's the cool thing" to hate on the top dog, but when you're supposed to be the best, you can't screw up. My bank just screwed up, I've never really had a problem with them before, but it was a big inconvenience for me and I'm voicing my opinion by dropping them for my banking needs and going to a competitor. Unfortunately, we don't have that in the football video games world.

Still, like you said, I'm excited for the continued improvement upon what M10 laid out, M11 improved on, and what M12 has to offer on the subject.

# 315 bkrich83 @ 06/18/11 02:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	I don't know if you are being passive aggressive in your statements such as the one I have bolded. You come off to me as someone who has a personal disdain for other posters and an air of superiority. Hard to tell, because it is written and subject to interpretation, but if you have a problem with me, I'd rather you just say it and I will just not respond to you further.

I do have a personal disdain for certain posters because they make getting any pertinent info off these forums near impossible. They wreck damn near every thread. Arrogant? Probably. I've been called worse by better.

Not being passive aggressive. A problem with you? Yes. In the grand scheme does that matter? Not at all.

# 316 Only1LT @ 06/18/11 02:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bkrich83


	I do have a personal disdain for certain posters because they make getting any pertinent info off these forums near impossible. They wreck damn near every thread. Arrogant? Probably. I've been called worse by better. Not being passive aggressive. A problem with you? Yes. In the grand scheme does that matter? Not at all.

Cool. You, do you.

# 317 BrianFifaFan @ 06/18/11 02:08 PM

This is the the level of game that I hope to see Madden become. http://www.operationsports.com/featu...l-12-gameplay/

There are those who say if Madden could, it would. Problem is that NHL has. I'm sure it wasn't easy, but they did it. Read it carefully. They aren't talking in big, Macro-level changes. They are down to capturing individual players abilities in a virtual recreaton. For the record, same tools are used at Tiburon. Difference is, they built them. Tiburon just borrowed them. And this game battled Fifa and NBA2k for the SGOTY awards in most of the gaming press.

Yeah, I'll admit I have an agenda. To get Madden to this level. Then I can, in good conscience, say that I got my full $60 worth. Or I can not buy it, just like I chose not to last year. I fully agree the choice is mine. The thing is I want to actually have Madden, the Madden that everyone deserves at this stage of next-gen development. I see what all the other big sports game makers can accomplish and don't feel that "we can't" is the acceptable answer....

# 318 Illustrator76 @ 06/18/11 02:11 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Only1LT


	Cool. You, do you.

Way to take the high road and just let it go Only1LT, just focus your energy on getting your point across regarding what you would like to see out of Madden.

# 319 roadman @ 06/18/11 02:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	Blindly defending a game is actually worse; it's an optimistic form of trolling, and it sets people off. People have a reason to criticize Madden. People who defend the game time and time again (with no reason to do so) don't, and cause as many threads to go down hill as the people who are trolling. The problem is, the blind defenders of Madden can blindly defend and annoy people who have been dissatisfied with Madden with no recourse. Blindly defending and blindly criticizing is the same, but considering the fact that Madden has a lot of things worthy of complaints, Madden's critics aren't blindly doing so. Some people say that there are trolls that will never be happy. Well, you can't tell for sure until EA puts out a football game that is on par with the rest of the sports genre.

Not trying to criticize or point you out Liquor, but these type of post I disagree with. Your opinion stating you feel it's fact.

Do you really feel that this is ONLY a forum to criticize Madden? That's the way your post comes off.

This Madden forum should be a forum where both sides and opinions are shared. I've said this several times, this isn't the Love Madden Forum and it's not the Hate Madden forum.

# 320 K_GUN @ 06/18/11 02:36 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	The game is seven years old ! That's why. Playing, and annually updating, a seven year old game is like taking home fat chick at the end of the night. It's just not what you set out to do; it wasn't what you were hoping for.

LOL...this is good stuff right here.......do what I've been doing the past 7 years.......get some good beer goggles!

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