Madden 12 News Post

Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

02:38 PM - March 31, 2011 by RaychelSnr

With video game baseball season underway, it's the perfect time to make this analogy What realistic hitting would be to baseball games, realistic line play would be to football games -- unplayable for 95 percent of gamers.

To put things in perspective, a hitter at the MLB level has less than .25 seconds to judge a pitch's speed, location and decide whether or not to swing.

How Hard is it to Hit a Baseball?

Hitting major league pitching is so difficult, that succeeding 30 percent of the time is considered successful enough to earn a multi-million dollar contract.

NFL quarterbacks have more time to make decisions than MLB hitters, but with so much more data to take in, a NFL quarterback�s job is arguably the toughest in pro sports.

Read More - Why Line Play WIll Never Be Realistic in Football Games

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# 101 Niq54 @ 04/04/11 05:27 PM

There only needs to be a few changes to create realistic line play in madden.

1. STRENGTH
STR ratings should be associated with a BULLRUSH animation/function. Most D-linemen and OLBs create penetration by pushing the O-line back, not by slipping off a ton of blocks. Using swim and spin moves. Now swim and spin moves exist typically only the elite D-linemen use these everyone else just pushes. STRENGTH/Weight should be the most important rating for a D-lineman. Haloti Ngata weighs 360lbs and dominates without spin and swim moves, but is simply stronger and bigger than most linemen. This would dramatically improve line play and also make 3-4 defenses more effective.

2. AUTOMATIC DOUBLE TEAMS:
The Game needs to establish automatic DBL Teams. A 325+ D-Lineman needs to be immediately DBL Teamed. No coach would let a 290LB Center block a 350lb Nose tackle one on one. With many teams now imploying a 3-4 defense this needs to be immediately fixed.

3. PASS BLOCK FOOTWORK
This rating should be more important than PB STR watch the NFL Combine and NFL Draft. O-line with better feet are much better that lineman with raw strength. A fast OLB should be able to get aroung a OT with a 65 PB Footwork rating.

# 102 BezO @ 04/04/11 06:03 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Niq54


	There only needs to be a few changes to create realistic line play in madden. 1. STRENGTH STR ratings should be associated with a BULLRUSH animation/function. Most D-linemen and OLBs create penetration by pushing the O-line back, not by slipping off a ton of blocks. Using swim and spin moves. Now swim and spin moves exist typically only the elite D-linemen use these everyone else just pushes. STRENGTH/Weight should be the most important rating for a D-lineman. Haloti Ngata weighs 360lbs and dominates without spin and swim moves, but is simply stronger and bigger than most linemen. This would dramatically improve line play and also make 3-4 defenses more effective. 2. AUTOMATIC DOUBLE TEAMS: The Game needs to establish automatic DBL Teams. A 325+ D-Lineman needs to be immediately DBL Teamed. No coach would let a 290LB Center block a 350lb Nose tackle one on one. With many teams now imploying a 3-4 defense this needs to be immediately fixed. 3. PASS BLOCK FOOTWORK This rating should be more important than PB STR watch the NFL Combine and NFL Draft. O-line with better feet are much better that lineman with raw strength. A fast OLB should be able to get aroung a OT with a 65 PB Footwork rating.

Plus:

-Engaged player mobility which will enable edge rushing
-Edge rushing AI & animations
-Get rid of the need to engage before using a move
-More defensive moves
-Get rid of eyes-n-back-of-head AI to enable realistic overload rushes/blitzes
-Reprogram/reroute stunts with a realistic goal of a stunt in mind - confusion/occupy & beating recovering o-linemen
-Proper depth & angles of pass protection
-Realistic pass route / QB drop timing
-Realistic DB/WR interaction/animation
-Tiered defensive play calling

# 103 catcatch22 @ 04/04/11 06:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	-Tiered defensive play calling

How madden does not have this yet is mind boggling. This is huge allow us to call our own dline rush stunts independent of play call. 2k has been the only game to do this.

# 104 Senator Palmer @ 04/04/11 08:32 PM

I'm in favor of speeding things up in so far as getting receivers into their routes faster and d-linemen off the ball. At the very least, d-linemen should use their acceleration, which at present, it I don't see enough of.

Take a look at the game Tuck (91) runs on this play. I don't think my d-linemen would be able to pull off anything like this right now because of the slow developing nature of d-line movement.

# 105 da ThRONe @ 04/04/11 09:33 PM

The problem with line play is mostly the interaction between the O-line and D-line not the speed. EA has added game speed adjustments. You want more time play @a slower speed. Speed has nothing to do with a lack of proper physics.

# 106 shttymcgee @ 04/04/11 09:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	The problem with line play is mostly the interaction between the O-line and D-line not the speed. EA has added game speed adjustments. You want more time play @a slower speed. Speed has nothing to do with a lack of proper physics.

I don't know about things happening at the right speeds. Receivers definitely do not get downfield at the proper speed when compared to the drops of the QB's and the potential rush of the DL.

# 107 blackscorpion11 @ 04/04/11 10:03 PM

Nothing in video games is exactly like real life? Thats a given. We want a close simulation playable in video game form. EA sports has achieved this in the past, with games like Madden 2005 and Ncaa 2006.. Most people want that same quality gameplay now. Sega genesis had better OL/DL interaction as far as realistic results.

# 108 MAzing87 @ 04/05/11 01:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by huskerwr38


	I think part of the problem in Madden and NCAA is the fact that wide receivers do not run their routes at a realistic speed. I've run a bunch of practice plays and have timed WR running their routes. It takes around 3 and a half seconds for a WR with 90 speed to run a simple 10 and in route with coverage. They do not get off the line quickly enough, they get jammed to easy. So the QB is just left hanging, which is why you need more time to pass. If passing was route passed then you could have a realistic pass rush.

Very, very true. It's not just the line play that's dumbed down, but the skill position is slow as well.

If there were realistic line play in Madden games, trust me when I tell you, I would happily buy the game and adjust!!!! If the cpu is able to get free and sack my QB in 3 sec or less, I should have the same success at least 65% of the time, if not more. And for online games, I can see people complaining about other players cheesing because they don't have time to throw the ball. But with that same logic, as long as each player has the same success rate, it would be competitive. Interesting article, but I think the realistic elements of football should be the true "All-Madden" difficulty! Put it in there!!!!

# 109 Mike Smoove @ 04/06/11 12:13 AM

Its realistic in 2K sports football games.

# 110 ryan36 @ 04/06/11 01:25 AM

Guys, get off the 2k comparisons. Thank you

# 111 Other Guy @ 04/06/11 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ryan36


	Guys, get off the 2k comparisons. Thank you

Not to be combative, but what's wrong with the 2k talk? The title implies that this thread covers any and all "football games". The original post even has examples from Madden, NCAA, BackBreaker, and All Pro Football 2k8.

# 112 Demoncrom @ 04/06/11 12:14 PM

Great article that makes a good point. Back Breaker probably has the most realistic line plan I've seen in a game in terms of the amount of time you would have to pass the ball, add in the limited QB view and you see why so many people are frustrated with it. As much a people want a real game, they also want it to be a game slanted more towards fun then reality

# 113 seriousluboy83 @ 04/06/11 01:19 PM

They just need to make line play more aggressive from the defensive side of the ball...tied for 2nd least sacks in the league the Bucs were still able to create pressure...only problem is that it was with one guy...they also need to do away with suction blocking

# 114 Vikes1 @ 04/06/11 08:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Demoncrom


	As much a people want a real game, they also want it to be a game slanted more towards fun then reality

You make a great point Demoncrom.

Most likely, the vast majority of sports gamers wouldn't want to have to play full quarter or period lengths to get realistic scores/stats.

But it would sure be nice if for those of us that would prefer that, or at least something near real-life period lengths [and gameplay]...if it were possible through very effective sliders. That's always been a frustration for me, are sliders that have little to no effect.

I understand why sports games play the way most do "out of the box". But again...it'd be great if close to true sim play was possible, with powerful sliders.

# 115 LionsFanNJ @ 04/06/11 09:53 PM

^ That brings up a good point. Never in the history of football games have I ever been able to play full quarters and not have thousands of yards of offense. Now in BBall games you can play full Q's and get stats.

I'd really like that option one day to get real stats on full quarters. Also if time is an issue, in game saves.

# 116 Senator Palmer @ 04/06/11 10:28 PM

I get great all around stats on 15 minute quarters in Madden with a 25 sec runoff.

# 117 kingkilla56 @ 04/07/11 05:01 AM

Madden is run on animations, not movement. There isnt a speed rush, there is engage the guy in front of you asap, do a move asap, and run towards qb. There isnt a bull rush, there is engage guy in front of you, do insta rip on him, get to qb. The movements of arms, hips, legs, helmets and technique do not matter, so it won't look anything like real life.

You put the game on all madden and watch the CPU pull crazy pressure on your butt. Replay it and it is one big jumble of insta rips/swims and super speed dlinemen.

Madden 13 should stress technique.

# 118 strickzilla @ 04/08/11 05:33 AM

while the op made very true points especially regarding backbreaker, they did what most madden defenders do go to the OTHER extreme.

"well lets make it 100% real and see how you complainers like it"

there is a middle ground and back breaker has proved it. the title of this should have been

"Why Line Play Will Never Be Real in Football Games"

that is true but to say it CANNOT be REALISTIC? i beg to differ

# 119 Foxtrot2873 @ 04/08/11 11:55 AM

I agree a lot with this article. I remember playing the backbreaker demo and never completing a single pass. However I feel that if the camera angle of madden was used so that there was a little more clarity I might be able to adjust. As it is, I try to throw basically the second I hit the end of my drop.

But I dunno, maybe if there was a way in which the game could slow down for a second in terms of moving in slow motion while quarterback read the field, and then snapped back into fast mode as soon as the QB ended his drop. I dunno, I'm just throwing out ideas.

# 120 Jarodd21 @ 04/08/11 12:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	I get great all around stats on 15 minute quarters in Madden with a 25 sec runoff.

You do? I got too many plays and scored too many points when I tried it at that. Sometimes I get too many plays and score too many points with 14min quarters with 25 second runoff. They should add a 30 second runoff for us fast playcallers. That would be perfect for 15min minute quarters for me.

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