Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

02:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

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Member Comments

# 1061 bodean @ 09/20/13 11:01 AM

So Xbox users have to manually enter your ratings/values into the game? No way to download a file to take care of the leg work?

# 1062 DCEBB2001 @ 09/20/13 06:52 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bodean


	So Xbox users have to manually enter your ratings/values into the game? No way to download a file to take care of the leg work?

There is not a file to download from the website. We do not make rosters.

# 1063 DCEBB2001 @ 09/22/13 01:30 PM

Caballero

OK, here is what I have come up with after my analysis of BOlt's World Record run of 9.58 in 2009. I will compare these numbers to the 40 times and subsequent SPD and ACC ratings of NFL players as well.

Here are the splits from Bolt's run:
Reaction Time: 0.146s
10m: 1.89s
20m: 2.88s
30m: 3.78s
40m: 4.64s
50m: 5.47s
60m: 6.29s
70m: 7.10s
80m: 7.92s
90m: 8.75s
100m: 9.58s

Here are the times for each segment:
Reaction Time: 0.146s
0-10m: 1.89s
10-20m: 0.99s
20-30m: 0.90s
30-40m: 0.86s
40-50m: 0.83s
50-60m: 0.82s
60-70m: 0.81s
70-80m: 0.82s
80-90m: 0.83s
90-100m: 0.83s

From these splits we can make a few assumptions:
1. The total time it took for Bolt to run the 100m, minus the reaction time, was 9.434 seconds.
2. Bolt's fastest segment was from 60m-70m which he ran in only 0.81 seconds.
3. Bolt continued to accelerate until some point before the 70-80m segment.

Using this data, we can graph Bolt's run, create a function, and then determine his maximum velocity and acceleration. We can also determine when these were achieved during the run and interpolate them into an hypothetical 40 time and subsequent splits. This can then be compared to data show by NFL players.

When you negate the reaction time, the splits are shown below. At this point I will convert meters to yards. 1 meter is equal to 1.0936 yards.

0.000y: 0.000s
10.936y: 1.744s
21.872y: 2.734s
32.808y: 3.634s
43.744y: 4.494s
54.680y: 5.324s
65.616y: 6.144s
76.552y: 6.954s
87.488y: 7.774s
98.424y: 8.604s
109.360y: 9.434s

From this, we can estimate the split times at the 10yd, 20yd, and 40yd marks match the data collected for NFL players at the NFL Combine and various Pro Days.

0y: 0.00s
10y: 1.60s
20y: 2.50s
30y: 3.32s
40y: 4.11s

When you look at this data, Bolt reaches the 40 yard mark in 4.11 seconds. The best verifiable time by any NFL player since 1998 is 4.21s. The biggest difference is in the first 10 yards for NFL players. The best verifiable 10 yard split time is 1.40 seconds, whereas Bolt reached the 10 yard mark in 1.60s. This seems to make sense considering that Bolt is a taller runner who relies on his stride to make up ground later in the run, while sacrificing acceleration in the first 10 yards. After all, Bolt doesn't need to accelerate, stop, and accelerate again like many NFL players need to do on any given play.

Let's compare Bolt's splits to two other players; Marquise Goodwin and Reggie Dunn. Goodwin, along with Trindon Holliday, holds the record for the fastest 40 time since 1998 at 4.21 seconds. Dunn holds the record for the fastest final 30 yards of any player at 2.70 seconds (4.22-1.52=2.70).

Goodwin:
0y: 0.00s
10y: 1.50s
20y: 2.41s
40y: 4.21s

Dunn:
0y: 0.00s
10y: 1.52s
20y: 2.49s
40y: 4.22s

As you can see, Goodwin and Dunn accelerate much quicker than Bolt through the first 10 yards. However, Bolt destroys them by a tenth of a second after the 40 yard mark. Bolt, who is actually still behind Goodwin and Dunn at the 20 yard mark, turns a defecit as large as .09s into a surplus of .10s over the course of the final 20 yards. That is a .19 turnaround over the course of the final 20 yards. Bolt's split over the final 30 yards is an amazing 2.51 seconds!

When we create cubic functions and differentiate to determine the maximum speed and acceleration for all three players, we find that Bolt, during the first 40 yards (when he is not even at top velocity as shown by the segment times above) reaches a top velocity of 25.85 MPH. Based on this, and the way that FBG ratings scales SPD, Bolt would have a SPD of 99 while the next closest player would have a SPD of 90. For acceleration, the fasest acceleration would be 99, while Bolt would have an ACC of 74.

As you can see, if we incorporated the world's fasest man into our equations, Bolt would be way ahead of every NFL player in the SPD rating, but would be only above average in ACC.

# 1064 jfb33 @ 10/05/13 01:30 PM

Do you know any formula that we can apply to current player abilities to obtain the correct overall? With that we could at least make the change by ourself in our game.

# 1065 DCEBB2001 @ 10/05/13 11:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jfb33


	Do you know any formula that we can apply to current player abilities to obtain the correct overall? With that we could at least make the change by ourself in our game.

I have the OVR formulas for every position in Madden. I will incorporate them once I have completed all of the player audits to get the positions for every player corrected. I will not be publishing any adjusted attributes until that time.

# 1066 garret2 @ 11/03/13 12:45 AM

Dcebb, would you happen to know if there is anything similar to FBG ratings out there for basketball. i've searched and haven't found anything, but you seem to be well connected and may know about something i don't. thanks!!

# 1067 DCEBB2001 @ 11/03/13 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by garret2


	Dcebb, would you happen to know if there is anything similar to FBG ratings out there for basketball. i've searched and haven't found anything, but you seem to be well connected and may know about something i don't. thanks!!

FBG stands for FootBall Gaming. There is nothing out there that utilizes FBG ratings for other sports aside from football. I too, however, enjoy basketball so if I was able to get the correct data, I would love to rate basketball players as well. However, for now I need to hash things out on the NFL side of things before making the huge leap to rating college players.

I am still considering altering some of the formulas to make them better correspond to Madden ratings for franchise. The real problem is that Madden rates their rookies so darn high that it throws the population data off. However, the adjustment would be to go back to more "classic" (2001-2005) FBG Ratings. This scale would "fit" Madden's scale "better" but would be more of a warped impression of what the scouting data shows.

For instance, in 2005, FBG Ratings had 99 players rated 90+. Madden 25 has 142 players rated 90+. Scouts Inc in 2012 had only 19 players rated 90+ (http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/story...layer-rankings). This year, FBG ratings has only 7 players rated over 90.

Now, lots of people disagree with my ratings because there are so few players rated 90+ (elite) but look at what Scouts Inc says for ESPN. They only had 19 players rated that high last year. Even the old FBG ratings had less than 100 players rated that high. Madden 10, that was to have more variance in ratings, still had 138 players rated 90+. Scouts Inc also only had 196 players rated 80+. FBG 2013 has 50 players rated 80+. I think that even if you don't trust my sources and the subsequent ratings, you can look at Scouts Inc to get an idea on how few of the really elite players there are in the NFL according to another premier scouting source.

So the big question is, do gamers want realistic Madden ratings that best mimic the real NFL, or do they want ratings that best mimic EA?

# 1068 garret2 @ 11/03/13 08:45 PM

ok thanks for the reply. i've seen a few good basketball raters out there, like VTCRB. was just wondering if anyone had ever attempted to create a more scientific rating system that would eliminate bias and rate player abilities based off of scouting data, like you do.

# 1069 GJD23 @ 11/27/13 01:32 PM

Does anyone have a roster file that has these completed? It seems like it would take an eternity implementing them, lol.

# 1070 DCEBB2001 @ 11/27/13 04:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by GJD23


	Does anyone have a roster file that has these completed? It seems like it would take an eternity implementing them, lol.

Try the roster threads.

I will be getting NEW attributes in HOPEFULLY tonight along with updated roster movement and player info.

# 1071 Streetfbmv @ 02/06/14 04:30 PM

I noticed, what seemed to be, a pretty big update a couple days ago. Any update on what's been going on over there at FBG? It seems to be that the strength rating was greatly effected with this last update.

# 1072 DCEBB2001 @ 02/06/14 09:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetfbmv


	I noticed, what seemed to be, a pretty big update a couple days ago. Any update on what's been going on over there at FBG? It seems to be that the strength rating was greatly effected with this last update.

The attributes have been converted to be more in-line with Madden 25 and beyond as to not distort the use of draft classes and CPU mechanics in the game. The same data is still used to effectively rate each player, but now the attributes and ratings reflect more upon how EA rates players.

# 1073 charter04 @ 02/07/14 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The attributes have been converted to be more in-line with Madden 25 and beyond as to not distort the use of draft classes and CPU mechanics in the game. The same data is still used to effectively rate each player, but now the attributes and ratings reflect more upon how EA rates players.

What can we do about figuring out the ratings for injured players like Romo. I noticed he's 40 overall and has very low accuracy ratings. I'm guess this is injury related. How do I know what his non-injury ratings are?

# 1074 DCEBB2001 @ 02/08/14 04:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	What can we do about figuring out the ratings for injured players like Romo. I noticed he's 40 overall and has very low accuracy ratings. I'm guess this is injury related. How do I know what his non-injury ratings are?

All of the ratings are real-time, so you will just have to wait until he is healthy.

# 1075 charter04 @ 02/08/14 09:49 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	All of the ratings are real-time, so you will just have to wait until he is healthy.

Oh ok thanks

# 1076 DCEBB2001 @ 02/08/14 01:34 PM

No problem.

# 1077 DCEBB2001 @ 02/23/14 02:09 PM

All rosters and players are fully updated. Attributes ***SHOULD*** match the OVR values within 1 point. If you find any that don't just PM me and I will take a look at them. The formulas are for M25, so using any other version of Madden will give you different OVR calculations that may not be correct. EA seems to change this every year for some odd reason. I will continue to update a couple times per month until training camps open. Rookies should be added near draft time, but I am looking into getting them added early.

# 1078 DCEBB2001 @ 02/25/14 10:08 AM

With the combine being completed today, it should only be a week until the actual BLESTO results are released to the teams. Once that happens, I will start working on the physical attributes for the rookies and continue to update them as we move toward the draft. I am going to be in touch with our webmaster later this week to discuss adding the rookies early this year so everyone can see how the players are rated BEFORE their teams draft them. No promises, but it would be fun to see where your personal man-crush of a prospect lands.

Also, I will be updating the rosters and ratings once more before the new league year starts on 3/11.

# 1079 Playmakers @ 03/26/14 07:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The attributes have been converted to be more in-line with Madden 25 and beyond as to not distort the use of draft classes and CPU mechanics in the game. The same data is still used to effectively rate each player, but now the attributes and ratings reflect more upon how EA rates players.

I understand what your trying to do but I don't think the game plays it's best when utilizing Madden's core ratings.

There are just some animation that don't trigger using Madden core gameplay ratings.

Also one of the bigger issues I noticed with update is the strength ratings of the players seem to have gone up sky high.

There are some WR's and RB's with equal strength ratings to that of Offensive and Defensive Lineman.

This really does cause issues with seeing player separation.

For example I tested it out and put a RB on the OL and he was able to hold and stand his ground vs a much bigger DL.

With the old ratings formula regarding strength I've often seen where a DL would push lower strength rated players backwards which reflected momentum based animations in the game that were outstanding to see.

I used to save a lot of these plays but I only have one remaining that I could find to show you what I'm speaking:

In this quick video it's kind of hard to see but if you focus on the RT watch how he is driven backwards into the QB by the OLB #57 for Kansas City

I never once was able to see this play out with the test RB I used on the OL who had like 88 strength rating.

Otherwise as you know I've always been a huge fan of your work.

# 1080 DCEBB2001 @ 03/26/14 07:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Playmakers


	I understand what your trying to do but I don't think the game plays it's best when utilizing Madden's core ratings. There are just some animation that don't trigger using Madden core gameplay ratings. Also one of the bigger issues I noticed with update is the strength ratings of the players seem to have gone up sky high. There are some WR's and RB's with equal strength ratings to that of Offensive and Defensive Lineman. This really does cause issues with seeing player separation. For example I tested it out and put a RB on the OL and he was able to hold and stand his ground vs a much bigger DL. With the old ratings formula regarding strength I've often seen where a DL would push lower strength rated players backwards which reflected momentum based animations in the game that were outstanding to see. I used to save a lot of these plays but I only have one remaining that I could find to show you what I'm speaking: In this quick video it's kind of hard to see but if you focus on the RT watch how he is driven backwards into the QB by the OLB #57 for Kansas City I never once was able to see this play out with the test RB I used on the OL who had like 88 strength rating. Otherwise as you know I've always been a huge fan of your work.

I understand, but the big thing that people were "commenting" (ok, complaining) about was the fact that the OVR ratings were so far off in the system that I just changed. It basically made the game's franchise mode useless. IF we were able to edit draft classes, then this problem would be eliminated.

I am considering going back to a more "true mean" style of ratings, similar to what you see back in the older versions of the site from 2002-2007. This allows us to tone down the over-inflation, but not so much so that it destroys the OVR ratings. Either way, we still have the franchise/draft class issue. By going off of Madden's current ratings system, at least the franchise mode is more usable (but not perfect) than using a more realistic version of rating players.

It has been an ongoing battle between using the "true mean", "true linear", and EA based systems, all of which have been published on the site in the last 2 years. I am, of course, open to suggestions if you want to PM me.

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