Madden NFL 11 News Post

FBGRatings Seeks to Recalibrate Madden Ratings, Change Game

02:46 PM - January 24, 2011 by RaychelSnr

I recentely sat down for a talk with FBGRatings.com's Dan Berens to discuss his site's vision and what's going on over there today. The site is currently working on getting accurate ratings for every player using real hard data converted into the Madden ratings universe. Dan claims that when these numbers are plugged into the game, it plays much better and much closer to real life. Check out the interview below and also check out Dan's website to see what he's got going on!

Interview with Berens on the OS Radio Show on BlogTalkRadio

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Member Comments

# 1121 Streetfbmv @ 06/18/14 12:49 PM

I'd be willing to help out as well with the ratings test.

# 1122 DCEBB2001 @ 06/18/14 07:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Streetfbmv


	I'd be willing to help out as well with the ratings test.

Sounds good - once I get some things finalized I will send all of those interested the details.

# 1123 da professor @ 06/23/14 11:56 AM

After clicking through a few teams roster, I noticed a few problems with these roster ratings. The biggest I noticed was Tryon Smith rated a 76 overall. Everyone has him as a top 5 tackle in the league and at worst a top 10.

Travis Frederick is another example...74 run blocking. Way off! He excelled in run blocking last year, but his biggest area of improvement is in the passing game.

Some of the ratings are decent, but I think they need to use more analytics from PFF.

# 1124 DCEBB2001 @ 06/23/14 08:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da professor


	After clicking through a few teams roster, I noticed a few problems with these roster ratings. The biggest I noticed was Tryon Smith rated a 76 overall. Everyone has him as a top 5 tackle in the league and at worst a top 10. Travis Frederick is another example...74 run blocking. Way off! He excelled in run blocking last year, but his biggest area of improvement is in the passing game. Some of the ratings are decent, but I think they need to use more analytics from PFF.

I am going to have to disagree with you here.

PFF is a good source to look at advanced breakdowns of statistics for each player on the field. However, PFF does not grade/rate player traits, which is what you need in Madden. This is why converting numbers that are representative of production does not work well in Madden.

If you read our FAQ page, you will find that we only use real NFL scouting data to rate players ie: player traits. These traits directly correspond to many of the ratings you see in Madden, and thus, are comparable.

PFF doesn't tell you how far/fast a QB can throw, how agile a RB is, or how fast a WR is. It also doesn't tell you how well a defender recognizes or diagnoses a play. Instead, it gives you advanced stats based on given situations. PFF is great for looking at a player's tendencies, but is a poor contributor to giving us objective data for calculating a player's traits.

In your examples, you claim that "everyone" has Tyron Smith as at LEAST a top 10 talent at OT. The scouting department that provides my data severely disagrees. Tyron has great athletic traits (STR, SPD, ACC, AGI) but is lacking severely in his ability to run block, especially at the point of attack. He also is not that aware yet, meaning he has some room to grow.

As for Frederick, did you look at his other run-blocking skills aside from his RBK rating of 74? His RBS is 74 and RBF is 73, giving him an average of 73.5 in these two categories. Also, his PBS (77) and PBF (70) average to the same total, meaning in the game itself, his total run and pass blocking talents are quite equal. In addition, PFF can give him a good rating in run-blocking on the individual level (according to one of their featured rookie reports on him), but you must look at this in the context of the entire league because Madden allows you to compare player-to-player traits.

To me, your post reeks of a Cowboys homer who hates seeing players rated low. I get it; I live in Dallas. Every Cowboy fan thinks that every Cowboy player is the greatest ever. I get emails similar to your post every day from people who doubt the system and think that PFF should have some say, when in all actuality, PFF doesn't rate traits; they rate tendencies. Most people don't understand that it takes the trained eye of a scout to see a lot of this stuff, but instead, they want to "Moneyball" everything and turn every stat into something meaningful.

After all, PFF also said that Brad Jones was a better ILB for the Packers than A.J. Hawk was last year. Ask an educated Packer fan if THAT is true. Most have been clamoring for Jamari Lattimore to replace him ASAP because of his recent ineptitude. Now, you don't have to buy into me or the system because I am not going to try to sway you one way or another, but what I would like for you to do is try the rosters out in the game. Then, let me know what you think. Did it help the gameplay? Did the changes in ratings seem to make them matter more? THAT is what matters - advancing how we rate players to make Madden better.

# 1125 da professor @ 06/24/14 09:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	I am going to have to disagree with you here. PFF is a good source to look at advanced breakdowns of statistics for each player on the field. However, PFF does not grade/rate player traits, which is what you need in Madden. This is why converting numbers that are representative of production does not work well in Madden. If you read our FAQ page, you will find that we only use real NFL scouting data to rate players ie: player traits. These traits directly correspond to many of the ratings you see in Madden, and thus, are comparable. PFF doesn't tell you how far/fast a QB can throw, how agile a RB is, or how fast a WR is. It also doesn't teell you how well a defender recognizes or diagnoses a play. Instead, it gives you advanced stats based on given situations. PFF is great for looking at a player's tendencies, but is a poor contributor to giving us objective data for calculating a player's traits. In your examples, you claim that "everyone" has Tyron Smith as at LEAST a top 10 talent at OT. The scouting department that provides my data severely disagrees. Tyron has great athletic traits (STR, SPD, ACC, AGI) but is lacking severely in his ability to run block, especially at the point of attack. He also is not that aware yet, meaning he has some room to grow. As for Frederick, did you look at his other run-blocking skills aside from his RBK rating of 74? His RBS is 74 and RBF is 73, giving him an average of 73.5 in these two categories. Also, his PBS (77) and PBF (70) average to the same total, meaning in the game itself, his total run and pass blocking talents are quite equal. In addition, PFF can give him a good rating in run-blocking on the individual level (according to one of their featured rookie reports on him), but you must look at this in the context of the entire league because Madden allows you to compare player-to-player traits. To me, your post reeks of a Cowboys homer who hates seeing players rated low. I get it; I live in Dallas. Every Cowboy fan thinks that every Cowboy player is the greatest ever. I get emails similar to your post every day from people who doubt the system and think that PFF should have some say, when in all actuality, PFF doesn't rate traits; they rate tendencies. Most people don't understand that it takes the trained eye of a scout to see a lot of this stuff, but instead, they want to "Moneyball" everything and turn every stat into something meaningful. After all, PFF also said that Brad Jones was a better ILB for the Packers than A.J. Hawk was last year. Ask an educated Packer fan if THAT is true. Most have been clamoring for Jamari Lattimore to replace him ASAP because of his recent ineptitude. Now, you don't have to buy into me or the system because I am not going to try to sway you one way or another, but what I would like for you to do is try the rosters out in the game. Then, let me know what you think. Did it help the gameplay? Did the changes in ratings seem to make them matter more? THAT is what matters - advancing how we rate players to make Madden better.

LMAO, Yes Tyron has room to grow, but not where you have him. That's a joke. It truly shows that your "scouting" is fluffy crap... 16 year old Madden fan with zero football knowledge. Your scouting department is broken or you just hate Dallas...I will look through the rest of teams.

PFF grades every play for every player in every situation, how does that not show their "traits"?

"To me, your post reeks of a Cowboys homer who hates seeing players rated low. I get it; I live in Dallas. Every Cowboy fan thinks that every Cowboy player is the greatest ever. I get emails similar to your post every day from people who doubt the system and think that PFF should have some say, when in all actuality, PFF doesn't rate traits; they rate tendencies. Most people don't understand that it takes the trained eye of a scout to see a lot of this stuff, but instead, they want to "Moneyball" everything and turn every stat into something meaningful.".
LOL. PFF is just one example. You can just watch the game with zero football knowledge to know that the two dudes I mentioned are rated low. Honestly, you can't even defend it without making yourself sound stupid.

# 1126 da professor @ 06/24/14 09:53 PM

There's too many problems with every team. Too many to list. Some rated too high , some rated too low.

# 1127 DCEBB2001 @ 06/24/14 10:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da professor


	LMAO, Yes Tyron has room to grow, but not where you have him. That's a joke. It truly shows that your "scouting" is fluffy crap... 16 year old Madden fan with zero football knowledge. Your scouting department is broken or you just hate Dallas...I will look through the rest of teams. PFF grades every play for every player in every situation, how does that not show their "traits"? "To me, your post reeks of a Cowboys homer who hates seeing players rated low. I get it; I live in Dallas. Every Cowboy fan thinks that every Cowboy player is the greatest ever. I get emails similar to your post every day from people who doubt the system and think that PFF should have some say, when in all actuality, PFF doesn't rate traits; they rate tendencies. Most people don't understand that it takes the trained eye of a scout to see a lot of this stuff, but instead, they want to "Moneyball" everything and turn every stat into something meaningful.". LOL. PFF is just one example. You can just watch the game with zero football knowledge to know that the two dudes I mentioned are rated low. Honestly, you can't even defend it without making yourself sound stupid.

Consider this the last time I address you on this issue due to your tone and obvious attempt into dragging me into a flame war. Judging by your response, I take it that I may have been correct by guessing that you are a jilted Cowboys fan, so let me be clear:

I do not alter the data I receive and I stand by the results that FBG Ratings publishes. I merely interpolate the provided primary source material. I hold no grudge against Dallas or any team because I am strictly in the business of providing accurate ratings from a reputable, primary source.

PFF does not state how fast a player is, how strong a player is, how tough they are, how aware, etc. THOSE are traits. PFF analyzes tendencies based on game results and statistics. Look at this recent writeup on Eli Manning.

https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...s-eli-manning/

Where is his TGH attribute rated? How about his THP? AWR?? SPD??? At the bottom of the page it even gives a summary titled "tendencies". PFF serves its purpose, and the scouting data serves its purpose. To each his own.

I am not knocking PFF, but the data I have says what it says, and that is what will be published. I would LOVE to see Jordy Nelson rated higher than an 83 for my Packers, but I cannot do it because the data does not warrant it yet. You can agree/disagree, but that will not change what is posted on the website. When Smith and Frederick are worthy of higher grades, they will receive them. However, FBG Ratings is run in real-time, so much so that a current injury can drop your rating, even if for a week. If you want all of your players to be rated 90+, I highly suggest using EA's stock Madden rosters - they LOVE over-inflating ratings down there in Florida.

With all this being said, I suggest you start your own website, use whatever material you want, and rate players as you wish. That is the cool thing about the internet - you can publish ANYTHING at little to no cost or responsibility. Best of luck.

# 1128 charter04 @ 06/24/14 11:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	Consider this the last time I address you on this issue due to your tone and obvious attempt into dragging me into a flame war. Judging by your response, I take it that I may have been correct by guessing that you are a jilted Cowboys fan, so let me be clear: I do not alter the data I receive and I stand by the results that FBG Ratings publishes. I merely interpolate the provided primary source material. I hold no grudge against Dallas or any team because I am strictly in the business of providing accurate ratings from a reputable, primary source. PFF does not state how fast a player is, how strong a player is, how tough they are, how aware, etc. THOSE are traits. PFF analyzes tendencies based on game results and statistics. Look at this recent writeup on Eli Manning. https://www.profootballfocus.com/blo...s-eli-manning/ Where is his TGH attribute rated? How about his THP? AWR?? SPD??? At the bottom of the page it even gives a summary titled "tendencies". PFF serves its purpose, and the scouting data serves its purpose. To each his own. I am not knocking PFF, but the data I have says what it says, and that is what will be published. I would LOVE to see Jordy Nelson rated higher than an 83 for my Packers, but I cannot do it because the data does not warrant it yet. You can agree/disagree, but that will not change what is posted on the website. When Smith and Frederick are worthy of higher grades, they will receive them. However, FBG Ratings is run in real-time, so much so that a current injury can drop your rating, even if for a week. If you want all of your players to be rated 90+, I highly suggest using EA's stock Madden rosters - they LOVE over-inflating ratings down there in Florida. With all this being said, I suggest you start your own website, use whatever material you want, and rate players as you wish. That is the cool thing about the internet - you can publish ANYTHING at little to no cost or responsibility. Best of luck.

What cracks me up about the "player A should be rated way higher" guy, is that everything is based on overall ratings within EA's system. They don't even have a good system as far as overalls. Some ratings are weighted way too high while others are too low. I don't care what the overall is in EA's system. I just look at how a player proforms. EA's over inflated ratings should work great for the overall rating guy. Lol

# 1129 DCEBB2001 @ 06/24/14 11:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	What cracks me up about the "player A should be rated way higher" guy, is that everything is based on overall ratings within EA's system. They don't even have a good system as far as overalls. Some ratings are weighted way too high while others are too low. I don't care what the overall is in EA's system. I just look at how a player proforms. EA's over inflated ratings should work great for the overall rating guy. Lol

The other thing about "player A should be rated way higher" guy, is that ALL of the players have lower OVR ratings! Do you know what the average OVR rating is for the average NFL player in the database of 26,537 players?

50.

50 is the AVERAGE score for a player's OVR rating in the FBG system. So to me, that means that Frederick and Smith are half-way to HOF status already with ratings in the mid-to-high 70s! LOL!

# 1130 charter04 @ 06/24/14 11:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DCEBB2001


	The other thing about "player A should be rated way higher" guy, is that ALL of the players have lower OVR ratings! Do you know what the average OVR rating is for the average NFL player in the database of 26,537 players? 50. 50 is the AVERAGE score for a player's OVR rating in the FBG system. So to me, that means that Frederick and Smith are half-way to HOF status already with ratings in the mid-to-high 70s! LOL!

I've been a Cowboys fan since 89 and to me I see Romo running for his life all the time so how great can that line be? Lol. Sure Smith is a talent and Frederick has potential but, they play like they should in game to me.

I think the players on the Cowboys defense are overrated if anyone of them is over 50.

# 1131 da professor @ 06/24/14 11:59 PM

Lmao, Doug Free is 10 points higher than Tyron Smith. This is more broken than the default rosters.

# 1132 da professor @ 06/25/14 12:03 AM

Ray Rice is rated higher than Lesean McCoy. Rice had maybe 600 yards last year. Nice work.

# 1133 charter04 @ 06/25/14 12:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da professor


	Ray Rice is rated higher than Lesean McCoy. Rice had maybe 600 yards last year. Nice work.

Donnie Moore!? What are you doing on this thread!? Lol 5 life time posts on OS and 100% seem to know more than anyone about Madden ratings. Shouldn't you be working on giving 80% of the players 90+ overalls and cover boy Richard Sherman 99's in every category?

# 1134 Hooe @ 06/25/14 12:35 AM

Coincidentally, I'm also a Cowboys fan.

The way I saw Tyron Smith's ratings, all his pass blocking ratings are really good (assuming the average individual rating is indeed 70), but just as DCEBB described a criticism of his coming out of college was that he was weak at the point of attack in the run game. His footwork ratings in both PBF and RBF both look to be Top 5 at the LT position amongst all players graded too, which I'm assuming is correlated his Smith's praise in his technique as opposed to his physical presence; I don't think anyone has ever called him a dominant lineman to the extent that, say, Walter Jones was.

The ratings correlated pretty well with what I thought about him, personally. Dude's only 23 too, so he's going to be around for a while and hopefully only get better.

# 1135 Hooe @ 06/25/14 12:36 AM

Also, we'll not be having any personal attacks in this thread, please.

Thanks!

# 1136 charter04 @ 06/25/14 12:37 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CM Hooe


	Also, we'll not be having any personal attacks in this thread, please. Thanks!

My bad.

# 1137 da professor @ 06/25/14 12:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	Donnie Moore!? What are you doing on this thread!? Lol 5 life time posts on OS and 100% seem to know more than anyone about Madden ratings. Shouldn't you be working on giving 80% of the players 90+ overalls and cover boy Richard Sherman 99's in every category?

Apparently I'm the only one that sees the obvious. So every one is in agreement that McCoy is worse than Ray Rice? Are you guys really serious? Is it because he has good traits? LOL

# 1138 charter04 @ 06/25/14 12:48 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da professor


	Apparently I'm the only one that sees the obvious. So every one is in agreement that McCoy is worse than Ray Rice? Are you guys really serious? Is it because he has good traits? LOL

Why do think a higher Madden overall rating means the player is better in game? Do you know how messed up Madden overall ratings are? What matters is how a player plays in the game. Not the arbitrary overall Madden Rating.

# 1139 DCEBB2001 @ 06/25/14 08:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	Why do think a higher Madden overall rating means the player is better in game? Do you know how messed up Madden overall ratings are? What matters is how a player plays in the game. Not the arbitrary overall Madden Rating.

The Madden OVR for RBs incorporates the PBK, RBK, IBL, RBS, RBF, PBS, PBF, SPC, CIT, RTE, and REL attributes. Rice is a better receiver and WAY better blocker than McCoy. Not to mention that his physical skills (measurables) are also better than that of McCoy. McCoy is better at breaking tackles, but he is not a superior athlete or as technically sound in many of the categories. For those who want to argue "yardage" and production, they will be missing the point - production does not equate to ratings. Where is the YPC attribute? Where is the YAC attribute? How about the REC attribute? They do not exist because they do not matter.

Putting production ahead of traits is like putting the cart ahead of the horse. Traits lead to production, not vice versus.

# 1140 DCEBB2001 @ 06/25/14 08:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by charter04


	My bad.

I don't think that was really directed at you. I don't recall you being condescending and resorting to name calling.

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