NBA Elite 11 News Post

Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

05:09 PM - September 22, 2010 by RaychelSnr

If you didn't read my thoughts on NBA Elite 11's demo, be sure to check those out now. No need to re-hash what I said there.

What I'd like to do instead is to play some blame game as to who is to blame for what might be one of the biggest disaster releases from a major gaming company in quite some time.

Because somehow, somewhere, someone is to blame for what accounts to the worst basketball title on the market in this generation of consoles. Sony's NBA game outclasses Elite 11, and I'm sure I can name several games over the past decade on far inferior hardware that outclass Elite's gameplay, some completely and laughably dominate Elite.

I wrote about Elite earlier this year, I thought the name change signaled that EA had hit the panic button. Now that we've played Elite and saw the entire Live series was blown up, I think it's safe to say EA definitely panicked.

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# 61 inkcil @ 09/22/10 10:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Blak_Baki_Hanma


	Even if EA doesn't make another hoops title, it will have no impact on the quality of NBA 2k... THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN COMPETITORS. Live is rated E... 2K is rated M The demographics don't even understand one another... hence the vitriol. 2K isn't hyper-realistic because of ANY pressure from EA sports EA isn't actively trying to recreate Double Dribble because of ANY pressue from 2K. Their respective targets are COMPLETELY different. Those with no affinity for authenticity and get pleasure from casually breaking ankles and fantasy dunking have a game to play. Those who, above all, want to recreate the NBA experience also have a game to play. 2K isn't taking customers away from NBA Live... NBA Jams is (because it's the same game as NBA Elite... just 2 on 2)... and that's fine with EA because the money stays home. rEAnimator said it himself, "the goal is 70% ARCADE / 30% SIM"... and the 30% is just the NBA license so gamers can have familiarity with the teams/rosters. So if we would all just LISTEN (including me), we would understand that EA has never had any intention of competing in the SIM market... they have their niche.

I agree with you 100%...that is why I played both NBA games in 2010. I love what Live 10 was doing, even though it hadn't reached its full potential. EA baseketball USED to be good at doing what they do best - creating the 70/30 game. Now their game will go down as one of the worst sports gaming blunders of this console generation.

# 62 YoungEz1 @ 09/22/10 11:08 PM

Yo on the real I rather whip out a Sega Genesis and play Bulls vs Blazers then ever play this again................
If a game sucks it suck no matter what company makes it

# 63 yopis @ 09/23/10 01:37 AM

They could not win the against 2k so they tried to devalue everything 2k has done better with this whole process. This was a shameless attempt to buy more time to put out the same old (we are in year 1 of a process excuse). They lost plain and simple, im not jumping up and down for 2k or sad for EA , I don't own stock in either company. I hope in a few years they can get something going but the corporate culture of EA will have to change for sure. Smoke in mirrors only last so long. Maybe this will be a triple play to MVP story but maybe not time will tell.

At this point of a consoles life I don't want to see things started over anymore. System shock games gave us Bioshock. Kotor gave us Mass Effect, all those live games gave us a complete do over and more waiting. This is a failure in every sense of the word. Basketball games didn't need to go this route, they (EA sports) were just not good enough to compete at what was working.

Since the course was set I hope they can make something of this down the road. Who is to say they wont just start over again? This is a desperation move for sure. All these post talking about feeling sorry for the dev team are crazy. That's what they want you to think so they can buy more time for the shortcomings of the game.

The dev team is responsible as the other parts of EA for the games failure over the last few years. Im in no way attacking anyone personally from the team but on a professional level all areas (from the suits on down)are part of the blame for this franchises fall.

Hope they can turn it around but it's not 2005 and im not buying year one of any sports franchise again until the next cycle of consoles. If value outweighs price then a person will buy the product, it's not at that point for me yet.

# 64 Dachozen1 @ 09/23/10 02:32 AM

I just don't know the direction they wanted to go with this, sim, arcade... they're trying to tone down the free throw line dunking, but they're just focused on ball handling and not team basketball...so which direction are they going??..and it just feels unrewarding to learn the ball contol to play a bad basketball game... Besides Live 10... NBA Street was EA's best basketball game this decade, so maybe they should bring that type of game back if they're going arcade.

# 65 Kaanyr Vhok @ 09/23/10 04:21 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thesniper321


	lol the last part was directed to the people who absolutely want their bb game to LOOK good. indeed elite is not for them but if you want a very deep experience the game is for you. I mean it took me 10 hours to understand how I could use fisher momentum against him if I used the right move at the right moment. I'm still discovering things . I can throw running hook shots on a consistent basis now but my post move game is far to be completed. The AI didn't get a steal during 1 on 1 since a long time and ,now i know which distance is mandatory to shoot for all my players so I rarely get blocked . I still haven't mastered how to use the transition between the post game and the face up, but the AI put some nasty moves on me with gasol that make me try harder, I haven't really pratice the post move defense, I still have a hard time to contest with 2 hands but it's very efficient against kobe . The slide on defense demands skills (with time i will make ron look like a baby on D ) so I just switch a lot right now, I can't throw the layup I want yet in traffic (right or left hand) cuz I'm slow to react to the help d and the situation is never the same ( most the time i'm looking at fisher cuz I just badly broke his ankles rare moments there). I doesn't recognize everytime the opportunities when I can jump in a defender after he bite a pump fake to get a foul i'm too slow but I did it with kg 4 or 5 times.I haven't worked on the triple threat or the gathers (I can't spin) or the freestyle pass or the oops yet, lol. there are so many things to learn in this game . it's so fresh, you have to think about all the subtleties of bb. Done is the time when i knew all the canned animations so I knew what was going to happen . I feel all the work the team put in this game so I understand why this reviewer is excited YEAH now i get what you meant when you said you have to feel it reanimator, now i get it

I don't see how you could find such depth in a game with such base AI. I played one game on superstar where it was tied with 22 seconds left and I'm bringing the ball up with Rondo. Fisher strips him. Its still tied. The Lakers inbound the ball and Fisher jacks a three right away with like 20 secs on the clock and sinks it.
Everything about that was pure BS. First a defender is not going to reach on Rondo in that position. You not going to risk putting him the line to win the game. Second the protect the dribble animation shouldnt be a constanst baby sitter and third its freaking Rondo!!!
Then the Lakers show no clock management at allllll. The game is tied with 20 secs left you dont burn 3 seconds and jack a three. Kobe wouldnt take it if he was wide open but Fisher took it contested. Thats just one example the game has Dreamcast AI. I dont see how you can find depth in the RTP. I wouldnt even know it was there if they didnt sell it. I would think the fouls were just turned off (which is another problem).
Backbreaker had depth from its physics. Thats a real example of a game with physics. If thats what you want play Backbreaker. It has flaws but those physics are real and they had a real affect on the gameplay.

# 66 jmarcguy @ 09/23/10 07:38 AM

Someone said people want Elite to be like the competition & that's why they're complaining. I want Elite to be better than the competition!! I want A good game period!!

# 67 StankonYa @ 09/23/10 07:50 AM

I buy NBA-Live and 2k every year...you know just for change of pace. Now since the 360 and ps3 came out, I've liked 2k better...... every year since then. To me Live was always fun, IDK ............It just had that swagger. But IMO Live (now Elite) has lost thier identity trying to keep up with NBA 2k. I remember Larger than life dunks, taunting, lots of fastbreak plays, big-time blocks thrown into the stands, good player faces, and the easy right stick cross-over controls on the ps2 and xbox 1 is what made EA's game Fun......and just easy to pick up and play. I've never thought of any live game save live 10, as a sim nba game. Come to think of it i never even paid for nba live 10 like i did all the others.........yeah i rented it, kept it ...and still have it ,but thats because i can't find it.....so maybe i don't have it after-all. Anyways I think I'll get elite when it drops to $40 bucks or something like that, but from the demo no way is it worth 60-plus $$$$$$$

# 68 Jasong7777 @ 09/23/10 08:48 AM

EA will never catch up to 2K. Not when it comes to basketball. Hell, they still have not caught up in football.

# 69 Muzyk23 @ 09/23/10 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasong7777


	EA will never catch up to 2K. Not when it comes to basketball. Hell, they still have not caught up in football.

Completely agree and moreso since I saw Elite 11 in action for the 1st time. EA's basketball title will never catch up. Never.

# 70 yopis @ 09/23/10 11:54 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasong7777


	EA will never catch up to 2K. Not when it comes to basketball. Hell, they still have not caught up in football.

Never thought about it that way but you might be right.

# 71 phant030 @ 09/23/10 12:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasong7777


	EA will never catch up to 2K. Not when it comes to basketball. Hell, they still have not caught up in football.

I don't know bro, they were only a year or two away with Live 10. Maybe not now, but they should get it together over time. Last year Live was my game of choice, 2k was the more complete game...but Live brought me back. There is always room for growth and improvement as well as staleness and regression...in other words, there's always a chance that ANY game can be better than its predecessors. Second, everything 2k makes isn't gold, and everything EA makes isn't crap.

# 72 da ThRONe @ 09/23/10 02:06 PM

It feels like EA is charging us 60bucks to be a beta tester for next years game.

# 73 econoodle @ 09/23/10 02:19 PM

great article as usual Chris.

Sadly, they should have stuck with 10's gameplan. Flaws and all it was at least headed in the right direction.

Elite? no comment.
lol

Can't fault them for wanting to try something new. Thats how breakthoughs are made and new paths are blazed, but something went very very wrong during the devlopment of this title.

No sale from me and the Ea hoops goodwill has just been given the death knell.

Its all memories now.

# 74 VDusen04 @ 09/23/10 02:29 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasong7777


	EA will never catch up to 2K. Not when it comes to basketball. Hell, they still have not caught up in football.

I'm not sure I agree that it's so definitive. Tables seem to turn when we least expect them to. At this point, it's hard to imagine such a circumstance but we never know. EA's MVP Baseball series rose from the ashes of Triple Play Baseball and EA's NHL series put things together while 2K's hockey series slowly became stale. Surely it can be argued the gap in those respective sports was never as large as we see here, but still, I'm hopeful Elite can get it together some time in the future.

# 75 da ThRONe @ 09/23/10 02:38 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	I'm not sure I agree that it's so definitive. Tables seem to turn when we least expect them to. At this point, it's hard to imagine such a circumstance but we never know. EA's MVP Baseball series rose from the ashes of Triple Play Baseball and EA's NHL series put things together while 2K's hockey series slowly became stale. Surely it can be argued the gap in those respective sports was never as large as we see here, but still, I'm hopeful Elite can get it together some time in the future.

I agree. Unlike a lot of OS'ers I think Elite is a great base for something special. If they work hard on filling in the many gaps Elite has right now this series may compete as early as Elite 12. If their serious about the three year plan then by Elite 13 they could take the lead. I hope they can. But this year their done.

We cant get refs that move or injuries. Elite devs. were clearly over their head this cycle.

# 76 JWiLL02 @ 09/23/10 02:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnalnirvana


	i think Ea is right they want to be, many may disagree but i strongly feel they have laid the foundation for their goal domination of the online user vs user basketball market.... this is elite the online basketball simulator

You're kidding right? I'm an online gamer through and through, and I have absolutely no desire to play this game online. It's going to be a mess. I'm surprised more aren't talking about this.

I think this whole "skill based" shot stick is a nightmare for online play. The "best" players will be guys who have absolutely nailed a certain guys release, and run back and forth along the 3pt line until they have a small opening, perhaps constantly calling for screens, then shooting 3s ALL GAME. This is going to be happening all the time. I guarantee it. Ranked games will be a complete joke.

Just look at Live 10: people discovered that guys with high off the dribble %s were immune to defensive pressure, suddenly you had every other online player taking 25 threes a game with Mo Williams and Jameer Nelson. What do you think its going to be like now that you can actually hit 80%+ of your shots if you're good enough on the sticks?

Also, what happens when there's even the slightest bit of delay? Do you now have to time your shot differently to account for it? Is there a workaround built in for this?

The bottom line is, Elite 11 won't be won online by playing good basketball. It won't be necessary at all. For the most part (if you weren't playing a 3pt abuser) Live 10 was won by playing good basketball. 2k11 is looking the same, why wouldn't I play that online instead?

Besides, the only reason 2K isn't dominating the online market is their servers, and them inexplicably stripping away all the online features the last 2 years (which I hear are back this year, and them some). Elite won't be dominating anything, online play included.

# 77 Playmakers @ 09/23/10 02:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jasong7777


	EA will never catch up to 2K. Not when it comes to basketball. Hell, they still have not caught up in football.

I have to disagree on that last part....

I think NCAA 11 is as good as any football game created.

Now Madden is still straggling behind but in terms of gameplay NCAA 11 is kick a$$ on the field this year

# 78 coolcras7 @ 09/23/10 03:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by oOausarOo


	The only reason EA never caught up in football is because they ended up not having to try and catch up. If NFL 2k were still around I'd bet anything Madden would be twice as good as it is right now.

why do you think that, we have actually proof what happens when EA has strong competition the game does not get better it get worse.

# 79 coolcras7 @ 09/23/10 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by VDusen04


	I'm not sure I agree that it's so definitive. Tables seem to turn when we least expect them to. At this point, it's hard to imagine such a circumstance but we never know. EA's MVP Baseball series rose from the ashes of Triple Play Baseball and EA's NHL series put things together while 2K's hockey series slowly became stale. Surely it can be argued the gap in those respective sports was never as large as we see here, but still, I'm hopeful Elite can get it together some time in the future.

The fact is EA is not the only one with a multiple year plan, to assume that the competition will sit idle by and allow them to catch up is ridiculous, after the release of this years games what exactly is their plan is it to add more controls graphic upgrade is an obvious, fact is they have to start from scratch with gameplay the game is not a representation of the complexities of NBA basketball.

# 80 KG @ 09/23/10 05:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by carnalnirvana


	i think Ea is right they want to be, many may disagree but i strongly feel they have laid the foundation for their goal domination of the online user vs user basketball market.... fifa... many sing its praises but it has completely forgotten about the offline gamer for the last 3 yrs while it built its online gamer base. now it sells mainly as a online game. you want offline gaming you went to its competition who did ML very very well. anyone who is a serious footie junkie knows manager mode is beyond broken...... same thing is happening here the comp is doing franchise mode well so why compete with that since they cant get online right for years now. this is a business and if you are behind you do what the competition cant get right. The online market has grown so huge in recent years online basketball is there for the taking. hence the focus on player control, and the blatant ignoring of the AI ala fifa its becoming a multiplayer world, the days of gaming alone atleast in my opinion is slowly dying. and i think its time we accept that basketball games are complementing each other, one has offline play done well the other does online well. now all ea has to do is beef up its looks and visual flair and its "cha ching" i think the last thing standing in EA's way is our years of loyalty, to LIVE... this is elite the online basketball simulator

For a long time I disagreed with a lot of what you said regarding FIFA but over the last year I have come to the conclusion that you were 100% right. Not even speaking about gameplay the MM was completely broken last yr with a well publicized glitch and there was no fix.

The comparisons between soccer and bball are eerily scary. There is a reason why people who are new to the sport LOVE FIFA.

Noshun,

Wassup with that letter? I'm trying to read it.

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