NBA Elite 11 News Post

Chris' Blog: Playing the blame game with NBA Elite 11

05:09 PM - September 22, 2010 by RaychelSnr

If you didn't read my thoughts on NBA Elite 11's demo, be sure to check those out now. No need to re-hash what I said there.

What I'd like to do instead is to play some blame game as to who is to blame for what might be one of the biggest disaster releases from a major gaming company in quite some time.

Because somehow, somewhere, someone is to blame for what accounts to the worst basketball title on the market in this generation of consoles. Sony's NBA game outclasses Elite 11, and I'm sure I can name several games over the past decade on far inferior hardware that outclass Elite's gameplay, some completely and laughably dominate Elite.

I wrote about Elite earlier this year, I thought the name change signaled that EA had hit the panic button. Now that we've played Elite and saw the entire Live series was blown up, I think it's safe to say EA definitely panicked.

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# 21 Mickey_Vee @ 09/22/10 06:21 PM

It Not just the controls but the overall unrealistic feel that I think makes the game unable to compete with 2k this year and has been a trend for awhile now I'm glad I realize this at nba live 03 the last EA basketball game i purchases nd it SAD because we as consumers need competition to get the best product

# 22 IV THA UNITY @ 09/22/10 06:33 PM

Controls, controls, controls. I honestly don't see the point in putting the bulk of your game development time into this aspect because that is what playtesting and usability test help tweak during the dev process. What they should have been doing is rewarding the user for learning these controls and linking them together aesthetically. For example why allow me to do all these things that play out in a generic fashion. Where is the difference in play style that would make me want to learn the controls ? I showed a friend that was skeptical, the video of Kobe Work done and he immediately said I wanna learn how to play like that. See how that works. I asked on the forums a while back about a "Low skill floor, High skill ceiling" and I got no response. Now I see why. There aren't any rewards for learning these difficult controls and what you see plays out rather ugly.

Also remember the vids when the guy kept stopping on fast breaks, well at least now we know why. Honestly, I feel like the deal with synergy that was acquired a few years back is now a waste of money because this game has taken EA back to many years to compete. One thing I have noticed throughout the years is that EA sports relies alot on gimmicks (the hook as they call it in the gaming industry) without polishing the basic gameplay itself. Every game has controls... duh, but when the Kinesthetics don't match the aesthetics it won't matter how good the game controls. You can't give me uber hard controls with a lot of room for error with bad aesthetics because I or the average consumer won't want to play it. Also I'm not saying things shouldn't change but as long as I can remember passing has never been a shoulder button.When you change things that don't need to be changed you throw a shock to the system of the consumer which is an instant turnoff.

Also EA needs to watch basketball and stop trying to give us their version and just emulate the game. Basketball is already a fun game to play. It doesn't need gimmicks, actually no I am sorry it does, but the gimmicks are the Star players that do amazing things on the court using their abilities, with that said I wanna play like Kobe, I want his move set, I want his different jump shots, his mannerisms on the court.

I don't know who this game was made for but it definitely isn't for a NBA fan. When i watch a basketball game on T.V. if I see a move done I wanna be able to turn my Xbox or ps3 on and recreate what I saw. I want it to look as close to that as possible. Not try to emulate it but it looks like crap because the game lacks the players moves set. I am highly upset with elite. I wanted to curse and act out of place on the forum and show how really disgusted I was with this demo. (and yes I put in about four hours on it) Just take the NBA and all of its likenesses off of the game and the game would be perfect for what it is... A generic Basketball game. EA has lost me and I haven't missed a EA BBAll game since Lakers Vs. Celtics.

# 23 Kaanyr Vhok @ 09/22/10 06:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BrianFifaFan


	But, like you said Chris, it's all about the panic and the yearly iteration. I know that, many times, I feel like I'm paycheck to paycheck, is that EA's feeling to? "Oh God, if we don't sell another 5 million copies we're gonna go bust?" If so, that's not visionary, it's reactionary. And maybe that's why, more than not, a lot of the modern games tend toward the mediocre and forgettable..... "Gotta make that Gold date...."

Thats it right there. When you hype a game as much as Live 07 and it ends up being a bad game its going to take time to recover so you cant react to sells for a number of years. We are in a recession, the comp doesn't suck... sells were supposed to drop.

ELITE should be pulled. I dont even think the demo is that bad its just that the comp is mean this year, and whenever you present anything new you are going to face skepticism. Backbreaker's physics are unearthly compared to ELITE and it still catches hell because it does a lot of things different. To be different against stiff competition and pick up any type of market share you have to be really exceptional. So yes pull the game take a year off and make something exceptional. There was a time when Fifa, Triple Play, Madden, and NHL stunk. I know a lot of people aren't big on Madden but its a lot better than Madden 95, 2002, and I would say 04 but many like that game blah blah my point is it can be done.

Yeah and I agree the culture plays a role. If EA pulled ELITE you would have a bunch of people talking about Live is dead and stuff and make it out to be some war that EA lost. I think it should be embraced.

# 24 ultralow @ 09/22/10 06:40 PM

I going to go on and say this IF elite 11 had the grx of 2k 11 this game would sale like crazy ....headline great grx and easy to pick up and play....forget rating its all stick skills.....does that sound like a game you know ? Madden.....

# 25 IV THA UNITY @ 09/22/10 06:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fcabanski


	"is controlls all that matter in a basketball game?" It matters more than whether the headbands are accurate, or whether the uniforms are accurate, or whether the stadiums are accurate. Everyone is judging this without playing multiplayer. I realize the game vs CPU doesn't look like the real NBA. But maybe the goal is not to make it look or feel exactly like the real NBA with animations. Maybe the goal is to make it a person vs person competitive video game, where people have to watch where and how they dribble or have the ball stolen, where they have to make sure their shots are open shots so they don't get blocked, where they can't sprint for easy dunks every possession.

I get what your saying, but if thats the case whats the purpose of using the NBA license ? and why take away the turbo button do players in the NBA not accelerate when they want? thats how charges and collisions happen, why would you remove that? I say because something must be broken so they eliminate it instead of fixing it. Had they stuck with and reiterated live 10 they would probably have a stellar game this year.

# 26 cuzzo @ 09/22/10 06:59 PM

never heard a ea dev say this is gonna be the best gamr ever. my question for chris is why is 2k even making a game after this year. if its so good bet me 2k will never release a patch for there game also they will not need to make a 2k12,13,14,15,16,17,18 because it REAL basketball n 2k11 is perfect. i wish ea would give chris his wish (cause it matters to the stock holders) n not make a game for 3yrs until he ok's it's ready. stop chasing tornados n go work for ea n show them how it's suppose to be done. i'll bet anyone chris will not say anything about how bad 2k servers have been since next-gen came out. if 2k sells 5 mil. copies n elite sells 2mil. copies does that mean ea should stop giving us a choice? and if you want a REAL nba game tryout for the thunder. all this complaining reminds me of someone. adam's rib maybe? just keep wishing my friend and soon 2k will be the only game to buy. sounds alot like madden.

# 27 dipset2050 @ 09/22/10 07:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eski33


	Chris, No disrespect to your opinion but to say that this is going to be a disaster is a stretch. Did you play MLB 2K9 or MLB 2K10? Those were a disaster. I think the developers are going the right way with the controls. 2K's has a scroll with all of the buttons you have to push (i.e. a layup is X, X, A, B, RS, RS, LS, RS3, R1, L1, L2)...It's like trying to get fatality in Mortal Kombat. Elite doesn't play poorly and the controls come with a bit of a learning curve but once you get past "EA Sports" and actually play the demo a few times, the controls are solid. The ability to miss a free throw with direction and distance has never been done and you can do that in this game. Not to mention, the classic controls are still available for those that cannot grasp or just plain dislike the new control scheme. Here we have a sport in which we have options in terms of video games and people want to bash this and that instead of looking at the game itself. I found the atmosphere and commentary to be outstanding. The ability to try the new career mode was a nice touch as well. I haven't purchased a NBA title in years and I will buy 2K because of the classic teams (could care less about Jordan). Give me Nique and the Hawks or the 90's Pistons any day. But I am also considering Elite as it does offer a different way to play....

Though I get that you like the Elite demo, to say that 2K is complicated in regards to the basics is borderline ridiculous.

To shoot, you move an analog stick up.

Or hit the X button.

Mortal Kombat, it is not.

# 28 HustlinOwl @ 09/22/10 07:06 PM

Is the "Inside Drive" team still around?

# 29 auau465121 @ 09/22/10 07:07 PM

Who ever fired Mike Wang is to blame simple and plain

# 30 BrianFifaFan @ 09/22/10 07:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fcabanski


	"is controlls all that matter in a basketball game?" It matters more than whether the headbands are accurate, or whether the uniforms are accurate, or whether the stadiums are accurate. Everyone is judging this without playing multiplayer. I realize the game vs CPU doesn't look like the real NBA. But maybe the goal is not to make it look or feel exactly like the real NBA with animations. Maybe the goal is to make it a person vs person competitive video game, where people have to watch where and how they dribble or have the ball stolen, where they have to make sure their shots are open shots so they don't get blocked, where they can't sprint for easy dunks every possession.

And that's fine. But not what, IMO, a NBA game should be about, or at least unfairly weighted towards. I am a Single Player, exclusively, and the EASBL has no interest for me. I loved NBA Live 10, and this game apperas to have gutted every bit of progress for a online-based game. I'm one of the "alienated." However you slice it, it's half a game. NBA Live 10 was a whole game progressing toward a full experience. As I said, build the new earth-shattering physics and controls along side the game you already had turned the corner with. Not go back to square one and tell me you have it to Live levels in three years..... This game is square one, basic, and disappointing.....

# 31 lnin0 @ 09/22/10 07:18 PM

Said it the other day in the demo impressions post - nothing wrong with rebuilding your game. But in typical EA fashion they didn't let this thing finishing cooking before serving it up. So which is better - missing a year, letting 2K get some looks and coming out swinging hard next year OR throwing up all over your new identity and customers?

Meh - OS will still probably give it an 8/10. lol

# 32 andrewdski @ 09/22/10 07:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by fcabanski


	It matters more than whether the headbands are accurate, or whether the uniforms are accurate, or whether the stadiums are accurate. Everyone is judging this without playing multiplayer.

Everyone is judging this without playing multiplayer? First it was "wait for the demo", now it is "you can't judge until you play multiplayer"? Come on, man, give it up. If you like the game that's good, say so and leave it at that. This cracked me up, sorry man.

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuzzo


	never heard a ea dev say this is gonna be the best gamr ever. my question for chris is why is 2k even making a game after this year. if its so good bet me 2k will never release a patch for there game also they will not need to make a 2k12,13,14,15,16,17,18 because it REAL basketball n 2k11 is perfect. i wish ea would give chris his wish (cause it matters to the stock holders) n not make a game for 3yrs until he ok's it's ready. stop chasing tornados n go work for ea n show them how it's suppose to be done. i'll bet anyone chris will not say anything about how bad 2k servers have been since next-gen came out. if 2k sells 5 mil. copies n elite sells 2mil. copies does that mean ea should stop giving us a choice? and if you want a REAL nba game tryout for the thunder. all this complaining reminds me of someone. adam's rib maybe? just keep wishing my friend and soon 2k will be the only game to buy. sounds alot like madden.

I don't recall Chris saying 2K11 was perfect, either. I call pretty much guarantee you 2K11 will be patched. Just read their demo impressions thread. It isn't like nobody is finding anything wrong with it, at all. I'll give you that his blog is maybe a little hard on EA. There are a lot of people very frustrated with EA right now, and he appears to be one of them.

It is certainly no easy task to try to rescue a sinking franchise in a one-year dev. cycle. 2K have demonstrated that with MLB vs. The Show, and their NHL vs. EA's. (Part of the frustration is that, to a lot of people on OS at least, Live was far from a "sinking franchise".)

# 33 IV THA UNITY @ 09/22/10 07:27 PM

But on topic I blame The Lead Gameplay designer because it seems they went into development thinking Controls and physics then tacking on the other stuff later.

# 34 Self313 @ 09/22/10 07:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eski33


	I think the developers are going the right way with the controls. 2K's has a scroll with all of the buttons you have to push (i.e. a layup is X, X, A, B, RS, RS, LS, RS3, R1, L1, L2)...It's like trying to get fatality in Mortal Kombat.

on the other game a lay up is done by simply moving the right analog to the side you wish to finish on... left for left handed lay ins, right for right hand, back for floaters, up for simple finishes

its honestly easier than Elite by far...

# 35 CJBEeZy @ 09/22/10 07:57 PM

Elite is a BAD game period! If u cant see that, u might wanna stop by your local eye doctor. Ive noticed that everyone who tries to defend it all say the samething "the Controls are great" as if "Gamplay and Graphics" dont matter. What really "grinds my gears" is the way they buttered us up with the Elite demo trailer,adding all these features "asking us is it too much for a demo" than we get the demo only to be Dissappointed. Live 10 demo/game is way better than this mistake Nba Elite 11, even Ray Charles could see that. $60 to play NBA Jams Lol i think not...

# 36 blues rocker @ 09/22/10 07:59 PM

EA is going to be kicking themselves for driving Mike Wang away...they had the key person to make a successful game and they let him get away.

Their HUGE mistake was in thinking that Live 10's poor sales were because of the game itself...WRONG, EA. The game itself was good and was a huge step in the right direction, and it's scores were good as well...on par with 2k 10's scores.

The reason no one bought Live 10 was because the NBA Live brand name and reputation had already been too damaged by consecutive years of bad releases...EA blamed the current game, when they should've been blaming previous Live's for destroying the Live brand name. The current game (which was good) got lumped in with the previous games (which were bad).

There was really no way to solve this problem other than time...put out a good game for 2-3 years in a row and win people back slowly over time. once the public sees your product as inferior, you can't fix that in one year...it's going to take at least 3-4 consecutive years of stellar releases to win everyone back. Letting Mike Wang go certainly wasn't the solution...the only way they were going to fix their sales was to keep Mike Wang and let him do his thing for 3-4 years and build an amazing game the right way...then maybe after a few years and a 90+ Metacritic score, people would buy the game again.

# 37 Tomba @ 09/22/10 08:02 PM

Chris i commend you. great blog/article. Too the point and something i really hope is seen.
You touched on alot of things and it is clear now that the sadness that is elite is real.
you've also restored my faith in OperationSports because I thought this would never be brought up.
if you report the good you have to also report the not so good. thank you Chris!

# 38 Blak_Baki_Hanma @ 09/22/10 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cuzzo


	never heard a ea dev say this is gonna be the best gamr ever. my question for chris is why is 2k even making a game after this year. if its so good bet me 2k will never release a patch for there game also they will not need to make a 2k12,13,14,15,16,17,18 because it REAL basketball n 2k11 is perfect. i wish ea would give chris his wish (cause it matters to the stock holders) n not make a game for 3yrs until he ok's it's ready. stop chasing tornados n go work for ea n show them how it's suppose to be done. i'll bet anyone chris will not say anything about how bad 2k servers have been since next-gen came out. if 2k sells 5 mil. copies n elite sells 2mil. copies does that mean ea should stop giving us a choice? and if you want a REAL nba game tryout for the thunder. all this complaining reminds me of someone. adam's rib maybe? just keep wishing my friend and soon 2k will be the only game to buy. sounds alot like madden.

Even if EA doesn't make another hoops title, it will have no impact on the quality of NBA 2k... THEY HAVE NEVER BEEN COMPETITORS.

Live is rated E... 2K is rated M

The demographics don't even understand one another... hence the vitriol.

2K isn't hyper-realistic because of ANY pressure from EA sports
EA isn't actively trying to recreate Double Dribble because of ANY pressue from 2K.
Their respective targets are COMPLETELY different.

Those with no affinity for authenticity and get pleasure from casually breaking ankles and fantasy dunking have a game to play.

Those who, above all, want to recreate the NBA experience also have a game to play.

2K isn't taking customers away from NBA Live... NBA Jams is (because it's the same game as NBA Elite... just 2 on 2)... and that's fine with EA because the money stays home.
rEAnimator said it himself, "the goal is 70% ARCADE / 30% SIM"... and the 30% is just the NBA license so gamers can have familiarity with the teams/rosters.
So if we would all just LISTEN (including me), we would understand that EA has never had any intention of competing in the SIM market... they have their niche.

# 39 Jasong7777 @ 09/22/10 08:19 PM

People are going to be paying $60 for NBA Jam with Elite being thrown in for free.

# 40 Tomba @ 09/22/10 08:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Moe24-


	You people need to understand that Mike Wang was NOT fired. He left EA Sports because he didn't agree with the firection they were going with the series.... So he left and came back with 2K Sports.

The direction of a sinking ship? I kid i kid!

But no he left probably BECAUSE of this i'd imagine...

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