NBA Elite 11 News Post

NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Controls

03:20 PM - July 12, 2010 by Steve_OS

Watch as Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings and Stephen Curry talk about the new player controls in the game.

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# 61 rEAnimator @ 07/14/10 02:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpnp


	Thanks for being honest.. but you have to understand what the other poster is saying. when you say "i will be proud of this game" after saying "I HOPE..we will be able to fix the graphical issues". it says that you had a goal? and that goal wasn't to make the BEST Sim ball game you could. it was to make the best Sim Controls you could. and there lies the problem. EA is #2 because they keep saying "we dont have enough time.." to do it all. thats nonsense. i know you guys are on a schedule?probably on MS project with dealines as we speak lol. i'm a grown man with a job so i get it. But what you guys need to do is take a screen shot of this message. Tell your bosses to do two things. either put more man power into nba ELITE(live). OR give you more time. thats right, forger releasing it on the same day as 2k11. Release the game when you have BOTH parts right, graphics/animation AND control. now when you say its hard to do both. it makes it seem like its not possible. I say yes it is. even when you're giving us total control. i know what you're trying to say. for example, if i cross over but slightly have my right analog doing a semi circle where i dont do the complete circle its165 degrees instead of the full 180. then if you make that happen in the game. it may not look Real because players dont do that in real life. and i'm saying YES they do. they are just more polished players so they do it less often. my point is this, if you guys have really nailed that control with how it looks(animations). then for people who dont know basketball and/or are new to these controls. they will look like 5 year old kids at the YMCA. weird moves, darn near travelling every play, double dribbling ect. thats what happesn with Real Physics and real life movement. but the better you become the better you look. now you look like a middle school kid that likes hoop outside. then you look like a high school JV kid that knows a few things but still hasn't perfected that crossover move. you can cross over but you cant pull up quickly because you keep losing your dribble with your off hand(THIS IS REAL LIFE). then you move up to varsity, now you know what you're doing but you can only do like 2 moves properly the rest are questionable looking. then you move up to college, then the pros. where you have master 4 moves, and are good to great at 4 other moves. dont be afraid to let the game look bad when its bad players playing. let them realize this aint ya mamas nba live. this is NBA ELITE. now go back and get those animations together. NO STIFF animations PERIOD> no excuses. keep up the good work.

It's not so much the 165 degrees vs. 180 degrees. I agree with you 100% in your example. A real player could do that, and if that's what you do with your controller then it should be possible to make it look good. Completely agree with you.

Where it becomes more difficult is when you're dealing with responsiveness, not with capabilities.

In real life people can anticipate what they are about to do and prepare their bodies for it.

In video games, there is no way for the sim to tell that the user is anticipating doing a move.

Therefore you have two options:

1. Play a realistic animation that feel sluggish because it has the anticipation built into it

2. Cut the anticipation portion and play an animation with slightly unrealistic looking movement

The challenge is finding the right balance between those two to give the user the feeling that the player in the sim is reacting to their requests in a realistic and timely manner, and not sacrificing the realism so much that it looks bad or breaks the general rules of the sport.

There are further challenges when you break up the animations into different layers (arm vs. body vs. legs) to give the user the ability to do more than one thing at a time (which we do in Elite quite a bit).

The player being able to do more than one thing at a time is completely realistic, but by breaking it up into different layers for different parts of the body you lose some of the cohesiveness of the original animation, making it look "stiff" at times.

These are the challenges we face that Live didn't face, because live played canned animations. They would always look good, but they weren't dynamic, didn't respond well to user input, didn't respond to physics and you could only do one thing at a time.

I think what we've done makes the game play much better.

That's what I'm proud of.

Now we just need to clean up the visuals as much as possible. Some will be fixed, some won't because of time, and some won't because we're limited by memory or processing power.

Finally...you said to ask my boss for more time or more man power?

We did and they gave us both

So bosses, if you're reading this. Thanks!

Oh, and I made a long post in the physics thread about sim vs. arcade that I think you might find interesting if you haven't already read it.

We're definitely trying to make the best sim basketball game, but everyone has a different take on what sim really means.

Take a read and let me know what you think (in that thread). It's an interesting subject and I enjoy talking about it.

Thanks for the reply!

# 62 rEAnimator @ 07/14/10 03:10 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomonkey


	hey reanimator, i just wanted to mention that i am in full support of what you are guys are doing. I have no problem sacrificing pretty looking animations for more control. other basketball games have looked very pretty but the control is terrible. I think that in the great sports games like mlb 10, fifa, you definitely have some unrealistic looking movements but in the end you overlook it because the responsiveness and control is so much better. I always prefer gameplay over eye candy so please dont listen to anybody saying you should put in more animations/put more frames in to blending animations which will sacrifice control. I want to play a video game not watch a basketball game.

Thanks for telling me this. Good to hear

# 63 �roke @ 07/14/10 07:16 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomonkey


	hey reanimator, i just wanted to mention that i am in full support of what you are guys are doing. I have no problem sacrificing pretty looking animations for more control. other basketball games have looked very pretty but the control is terrible. I think that in the great sports games like mlb 10, fifa, you definitely have some unrealistic looking movements but in the end you overlook it because the responsiveness and control is so much better. I always prefer gameplay over eye candy so please dont listen to anybody saying you should put in more animations/put more frames in to blending animations which will sacrifice control. I want to play a video game not watch a basketball game.

Count me in. I don't know if i'm crazy or what, but I like what I'm seeing. I don't care if the net looks weird. I just love the idea of having this control at my disposal. I rather have control instead of good looking animations. They may be amazing, but if all I did was just press a button, I don't feel the challenge.

So keep up the good work!!

# 64 StriderNo9 @ 07/14/10 10:31 AM

Looks good, I just hope they fix the net.

# 65 ParisB @ 07/14/10 12:01 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kingpnp


	good reply... hey when you say everyone has a different idea of SIM. thats true. but sim is sim. people move to goal post to fit their style of play. basically how a sim video game is supposed to work is this. I'm now kobe bryant . but here's the deal, just like the movie matrix i am downloaded all of his physical abilities and basketball skills. here's the trick. what seperates nba players from one another? basketball IQ. nash isn't the fastest, quickess nor is he the biggest, strongest guy in the nba. but look at him. the guy knows when to shoot and when to pass, and when to go for the layup with the left, or with the right. he knows which way to pivot depending on where the defender(s) is. just like kobe. the thing is if i'm kobe. its my decision where before it was kobe's or nash's. if i dont choose properly like they do. i wont be as good as they are (in my video game sim) as they are in real life. if I make the same mental decisions they make. i will play Identical to how they play in REal life. if i make better decisions. i will be a better player on the game then they are in real life. for instance remember gerald green(he's playing for the lakers SPL right now). doesn't have the hoop IQ that a nash or kobe has. but he has most of the skills and he's an insane athlete. lebronesk(minus the strength). you put my mind in gerald greens body. and its kobe time. thats REAL sim when you're speaking player for player. NOW, team for team. real sim is the samet thing. not only is your mind in each player you switch to. its also in the coaches head now. larry brown wants to slow it down(boring..Lol, but it works) even with the bobcats a young team. why? to make for less possessions in a game and less chances for the opponent to score. which makes you THINK his teams are great at defense. when in reality they are slightly above average to good. not great. but if i'm larry running with the cats. i'm running like i'm Don nelson, but unlike nelson i'm playing decent defense like the bobcats in the halfcourt. here's the thing. if you run like a cheetah on offense. you cant play lockdown defense. there isn't enough air in your lungs to pull it off. you want proof. the phoenix suns, gstate warriors. you cant run like that and also have the gas to play defense. this is REAL SIM ball. that means even though i'm playing like a mix between two great coaches(one great offensive coach and one defensive). i still will have issues because REAL life = fatigue. now we're talking about showtime lakers. people think they use to run like the suns. not true. they ran when it was there(it was there more often because they had a 6'9 pg going to the glass to make them run. but i wasn't an illadvised chuck fest within 7 seconds. if they did that, they would not have been as good as they were on defense or in the half court on offense. this is REAL SIM player for player and team for team. i know some think SIm ball player for player = if i have kobe i want to make the same percentage of shots he would make from around the court. no matter my release of the shot, the defenders etc. and if i'm the (old suns). then i should be forced to play D"antoni basketball which will = high scoring games for my team. here's the thing. SIM my way or sim there way can both be pulled off in a video game. if you SIm it my way, their way will take care of itself. here's how. If your goal is to play sim my way you create a game where i have the ability to control the things i mentioned. if your goal is to play like the player and/or like the team. fine. that means you have to know that player well enough to know what he would do under every circumstance. if you want to play like that team. you have to know what that team would do under every circumstance. if you know these things and use them in the game. it will produce a sim like game showing nash playing like nash and suns playing like suns. but here's the kicker. this doesn't mean you're going to win(this is what people dont get). it just means you can score like the suns have 10 assist games like nash. but it also means if you're playing the computer vs the wrong team(Lakers) or a friend that knows how to use the lakers properly(their size, kobe). the suns will score and run out of gas. wont play defense and they will watch the lakers score right back. the thing is. the lakers will get a few more stops in the end because due to their non over done offense or defense they have energy for both even late in the 4th. so dont get made when the lakers keep beating you(assuming the computer plays like the real lakers, or a friend knows how to play with them like their real life counterparts. THis my friend is SIM HOOP. Animations- this may be a processor thing. but what you have to do is basically what 2k does. bring in the nba players you can, then bring in top level overseas guys or pro street ballers, college players that can mimic nba players moves. you capture those movements for as many players as you can get in there. you apply those moves to each player. for instance if kobes bends over further then say lebron in real life. then make kobe bend more when you drive(hit up on the analog), so not only is the driving linked to your UP push of the analog. but the leaning motion is also Mapped to Kobe bryant when said controller is pushed UP. thats how you write the code. IF, THEN statements. but with the physics added in. the animations are not just for show. they can change things in the game. if lebron dribbles higher on the game due to real life physics(he is tall). there's a higher chance of a quick hand defender(tony allen, ron artest, etc) tipping the ball. even if lebrons ball control/security stats are high. physics says he better not be dribbling in front of those guys as high as he's known to dribble. so the leaning of kobe, may mean he will squeeze by a defender vs lebron bumping into a defender and not carrying because he's so big. bumping the guy out of his position to an extent ala shaq back in his young days.

I don't think they need anybody telling them how to do their jobs. No offense, but they do programming for a living and know what they're doing and have the appropriate people involved in all facets.

Hey, they're adding real time physics and unprecedented control to the User...let's just be happy with their vision and progress

The last thing we need is to follow 2k's path.

# 66 ParisB @ 07/14/10 12:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by �roke


	Count me in. I don't know if i'm crazy or what, but I like what I'm seeing. I don't care if the net looks weird. I just love the idea of having this control at my disposal. I rather have control instead of good looking animations. They may be amazing, but if all I did was just press a button, I don't feel the challenge. So keep up the good work!!

Amen to that. The video with the one EA employee giving examples of the moves at your disposal was pretty awesome.

I'll wait for the demo and test it out myself before saying I'm a day one buyer or skipping out completely. So far I think I'm optimistic and loving what I'm seeing.

I hope they stay on the full control path, and not start adding more canned sequences.

# 67 Pared @ 07/14/10 12:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by qnzballa5


	I mean comone now, in some other interviews about the controls they said" the left stick controls your players feet and movement and the right stick is hand movement" yadayadayda, i guess they forgot it has always been like that! Thats nothing new!

Yes it is. RS controls your hands at all times, including offense and defense.

You guys won't understand until you play the game. Try to avoid posts like this because when you play it you will go "OH, that's what they mean," and then feel kind of silly.

The net animations look bad because it's one of the last things they are going to be working on. We already told them this, and that's why it looks the way it does.

And the shot contest attempts still look awkward... so I'm still holding out hope they will look better by the time the game goes final.

# 68 qnzballa5 @ 07/14/10 01:26 PM

like i said i want them to prove me wrong but i doubt it, will the demo still be a work in progressed piece or will it be the complete piece of the puzzle to make the guys on the fence like me want to buy it? Will elite make this the year where you cant buy one without the other? I remember when i got 2k3 and live 03 and leaving the toys'rus and the security guard stamping my receipt and saying" you couldnt buy one without the other huh?" I wish it would be.

# 69 blackflash83 @ 07/14/10 01:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pared


	Yes it is. RS controls your hands at all times, including offense and defense. You guys won't understand until you play the game. Try to avoid posts like this because when you play it you will go "OH, that's what they mean," and then feel kind of silly. The net animations look bad because it's one of the last things they are going to be working on. We already told them this, and that's why it looks the way it does. And the shot contest attempts still look awkward... so I'm still holding out hope they will look better by the time the game goes final.

There are a number of placeholder animations in the game right now which is why you are seeing a lot of awkward animations. A lot of that stuff is going to get fixed. Still LOTS of work left to be done and you will see the improvements in future videos we put out.

# 70 shadox @ 07/14/10 02:36 PM

Just my 2 cents to this whole topic:

1.) thx for all the dev feedback.
2.) people,please don't forget what this is about. The video was meant to show ONE thing (and ONE thing only): Controls.
The WIP sign isn't shown for pure fun, but to underline that it was a capture with a predetermined purpose.
No offense, but rasing the same comments/questions about bad/unfinished animations aren't really fair to the devs.

On the one hand, everyone here wants to see as much as possible as early as possible.But one we get it, we start to complain about things that may not be in the build shown.

I love the fact that on this part of OS, very much everyone tries to be as constructive as possible and have good intentions by complaining about small details.
But we should have seen in other ends of this forum where things can go with random complaints about stuff not being the current topic.

Furtheremore, if you think about the producers perspective, I would really reconsider showing early videos if my potential customers may be turned down by things that aren't implemented in the video or even not finished at all.

3.) I fully understand the "give and get" situation between total control and fluid animations...and for my part, I couldn't care less about visuals not being THAT perfect when the game is balanced and plays smoothly.
(Not to mention that the looks aren't bad at all)
I not only like this because I prefere this approach of creating a videogame, but I also like the fact that this creates a bigger diversification between the two competitors for basketball games.

Thx for reading and sorry if this may be hard to read, english is just my second language

# 71 idrisguitar @ 07/14/10 03:04 PM

this generation, ea sports is on the ball (except madden.....seriously that still leaves me totally confused)

but yeah first fifa and nhl, and now this game. even if it doesn't turn out as good as those two, at least you are truly trying to change the game and improve video game basketball properly.

i loved 2k, but it is simply just a last gen game with updated graphics and more modes. (and more glitches

)

as long as everyone gives constructive criticism to EA then everything is great, because you KNOW there is a demo coming. so poeople coming in here and saying "omg my god that video sucks im not getting the game" are just pathetic, because firstly it helps noone, and secondly, why rule it out when they are literally letting you try it for free when its ready!!!!

i love the fact there are EA reps on this forum actively posting. and personally im very optimistic about this game. i dont care about some rough animations and rough graphics, if the gameplay genuinely feels fresh and playable. (which i kind of thought live 10 AND 2k10 wasn't)

bball is my favourite sport, but a bball game has not made choose it over fifa/nhl/mlb the show for years now. and i personally would love the reinvention to be a succsessful one.

# 72 joel0078 @ 07/14/10 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by thomonkey


	hey reanimator, i just wanted to mention that i am in full support of what you are guys are doing. I have no problem sacrificing pretty looking animations for more control. other basketball games have looked very pretty but the control is terrible. I think that in the great sports games like mlb 10, fifa, you definitely have some unrealistic looking movements but in the end you overlook it because the responsiveness and control is so much better. I always prefer gameplay over eye candy so please dont listen to anybody saying you should put in more animations/put more frames in to blending animations which will sacrifice control. I want to play a video game not watch a basketball game.

If this is how you feel, you can probably find an old colecovision console on ebay, and you could spend your days playing endless matches of pacman and donkey kong. Of course graphics and animations matter! They don't necessarily make or break a game, but let's be real here, you can't have an enjoyable basketball video game without having realistic animations to make it believable. I don't care how good the controls are. If you just wanna have fun and you don't care about that stuff, go play double dribble. It had terrible graphics and even worse animations, but it was super fun.

We live in a day of age where these things do matter and they are expected to be up to par, simultaneously. This isn't 1986 or even 1996, where the technology was limited and or different back then. Those games, for that time period, were great, but with the the advances in technology that are available today, there isn't one reason why a consumer wouldn't expect to have the best of graphics, animations and controls. I can deal with sub par graphics, but player movement and animations on and off ball have to be believable these days. And if they're not, stand by to continue being #2.

# 73 joel0078 @ 07/14/10 03:19 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ParisB


	The last thing we need is to follow 2k's path.

You're hysterical. Since you mentioned 2k, I'll say this.....It's all good if you don't like 2k, to each his own. I've purchased both games every year, for the last 8 years... When you say "last thing they need to do is follow 2k's path" do you mean, sell 3 million copies or do you mean to be consistently reviewed (subjective of course) as the best basketball video game on the market??

Anyhow, for the sake of this thread, Paris, keep 2k out of it. If you wanna talk about 2k, go to the 2k forums.

# 74 �roke @ 07/14/10 04:16 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joel0078


	You're hysterical. Since you mentioned 2k, I'll say this.....It's all good if you don't like 2k, to each his own. I've purchased both games every year, for the last 8 years... When you say "last thing they need to do is follow 2k's path" do you mean, sell 3 million copies or do you mean to be consistently reviewed (subjective of course) as the best basketball video game on the market?? Anyhow, for the sake of this thread, Paris, keep 2k out of it. If you wanna talk about 2k, go to the 2k forums.

I think Paris wants 2 different bball games. Key word, different. That way, everyone can choose the game he likes more (or like you, buy both).

# 75 Pared @ 07/14/10 04:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by joel0078


	You're hysterical. Since you mentioned 2k, I'll say this.....It's all good if you don't like 2k, to each his own. I've purchased both games every year, for the last 8 years... When you say "last thing they need to do is follow 2k's path" do you mean, sell 3 million copies or do you mean to be consistently reviewed (subjective of course) as the best basketball video game on the market?? Anyhow, for the sake of this thread, Paris, keep 2k out of it. If you wanna talk about 2k, go to the 2k forums.

Calm down. I didn't read that comment as a slight.

He's right. I personally don't want two exact titles on the market. That's the way this genre was going last year.

They both need to offer their own experience while respecting the NBA and the sport of basketball. That's all. Of course the goal is to be successful in the market and that's obviously not what one should be saying.

# 76 ParisB @ 07/14/10 05:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by �roke


	I think Paris wants 2 different bball games. Key word, different. That way, everyone can choose the game he likes more (or like you, buy both).

Exactly

After seeing FIFA and NHL series start bringing it, I'm cautiously excited about the new direction of Elite, with amazing controls and real time physics.

What I didn't want to see happen is for Elite to head the other way, by adding layers and layers of animations and canned sequences and dice rolls

Live 10 had nice additions like freestyle passing and solid AI, but canned animations and such were annoying, but it seems that a lot of people prefer it.

I like what the other game has to offer, but I prefer a different direction and don't want to play a different version of the same game. That's all.

Ideally I want to keep buying both and playing whichever I'm in the mood for that day and know I will be getting good basketball but different experiences.

# 77 Pared @ 07/15/10 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwade3


	Nba Live 10 was PERFECT... the only i hated was lack to animation and automatic crossovers... now they changed to manual crossovers. The BEST thing live 10 was interior defence... in nba 2k10 i can dunk whenever i want but in nba live 10 u cant dunk unless u earn it.

It wasn't anywhere close to perfect. EA even knows this.

# 78 qnzballa5 @ 07/15/10 11:20 AM

i hope theres more than a handful of dunk animations because in live 10 you knew what kind of dunk the guy would do after u cleared your defender in driving to the hoop. There should be a good variety of dunks and how players get dunked on because if the air collision is going to be great then that could change the whole game...imagine driving down the lane and kicking a guy ala paul pierce did to chris bosh in the air while posterizing him haha... i doubt "elite" will pull this off though.

# 79 ILLSmak @ 07/18/10 08:57 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by dwade3


	Nba Live 10 was PERFECT... the only i hated was lack to animation and automatic crossovers... now they changed to manual crossovers. The BEST thing live 10 was interior defence... in nba 2k10 i can dunk whenever i want but in nba live 10 u cant dunk unless u earn it.

Perfect? No... good, for sure. You can still BS a lot in Live, all you have to do is get by someone and do one of those step through moves, a spin move, or cross over a couple times then dunk it.

There were other problems with Live, too, like the shooting and missed lay ups. The lay up thing has bothered me a lot lately because it seems to have no rhyme or reason. Someone will go up and make some trash but then they will airball a layup from 2 feet away straight on.

But that's beside the point, when I watched that video, I thought it was trash. I'm not gonna mince words. What happened? It doesn't even look the same. The shots look fake especially going through the rim and the ball doesn't even sit in player's hands right. Does it look just like live 10? Because I've played A LOT of Live 10 and that look different... and worse. I hope that's not what they're gonna come out with next year, that'll be a huge disappointment.

-Smak

# 80 DaKing26 @ 07/21/10 03:48 PM

This is good. No, this is great. People are talking about the graphics being off, but I really think they're fine. What is great is that the devs are putting gameplay BEFORE graphics. The graphics aren't the main priority, and they're making sure the experience of the game is top-notch.

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