Madden 09 News Post

Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

12:17 AM - May 15, 2008 by beau21

EA Sports have updated their Madden NFL 09 blog with tackling engine details and a video clip.

Quote:


	"One of our primary pet-peeves in Madden NFL has been in the responsiveness of tackling. We wanted to feel like as a ballcarrier or defender you are always in more control. The feeling of delay before a tackle started really took away from responsiveness. Also the "suction" you get when being pulled into tackles, well, sucks. We found that the cause of the delay was searching through our 300 and some odd tackles for one that "matched" the current scenario as close as we can, and while this may only take 1/10th to 1/4th of second, I found that delay un-acceptable. So we invented a whole new way to tackle this year."

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Member Comments

# 161 JRod @ 05/15/08 07:58 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vadiplomat04


	There are gang tackles in Madden that involve three people. Im saying if you have more then 2 people talking one player, some players are going to either a) just pile on the back of the defender (like in your picture) or b) knock off their own defender. Now if you watch the video your notice that the player are more aware of tackles and react better the tackles. The video also shows that when a player gets hit into another player that reaction is more realistic. I don't know what you want from this game, but you can't say that EA isn't trying their hardest to improve on the engine.

This is a lie. I watched the video and did not see one 3 man tackle. Not a tackle where one guys in in the process of making a tackle but falls off, while two other guys make a two-man tackle.

3 man tackles are not in the game. A sequence of three men trying to tackle the player is in the game. But it's a 3 man tackle just by sequence.

# 162 SageInfinite @ 05/15/08 09:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by countryboy


	Alright boys(girls?) now its time for a comment from a fan of Madden/EA to say something. And that something is......so-so. The graphics are gorgeous, the lighting is beautiful and the new animations are great, but the video is nothing more than a highlight reel of one on one tackles. Hard to say. I was expecting to see more than just one on one tackles. The video gives you some things to like, but also gives you some things to ponder. Why no gang tackles? Why do defenders seem to still run at the ball carrier with "no agenda"? I know its early and all, but here's chance that EA could've swept me off my feet, but only managed to make me smile and hope. I like what was mentioned in the blog, I really do, but words are words and actions are actions. Now we all know that as sure as daylight will turn to night that I am going to buy this game, but I really didn't get that Wow! feeling from this video.

I was waiting for you to chime in cb.

# 163 FlyingFinn @ 05/15/08 09:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Vadiplomat04


	As I said....two defenders have hold of him but once you get more then 2 or 3 there just tackleing each other.

No, they are changing momentum, preventing forward progress. Just like O-lineman are suppose to do from behind to push the pile forward. Neither of which exists in Madden.

# 164 countryboy @ 05/15/08 09:30 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageTheInfinite


	I was waiting for you to chime in cb.

For better or for worse, you knew it was coming..

# 165 Scott @ 05/15/08 11:59 PM

Marion Barber going down on the first chance? Totally Unrealistic

# 166 Rawdeal28 @ 05/16/08 12:00 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TurboTitan


	Its a bit suprising how easily some people are swayed or impressed. That is exactly why EA has started advertising so early this year. Considering their track record on the 360/PS3, there is NOWAY I am getting my hopes up or commiting to buying this thing. Its kinda like "tackling looks a bit better..... Im buying it!!!" Did we forget about all the bugs/glitches that infested 08? One thing that has been missing from Madden forever animation-wise, that I think there is no excuse for, is a tripping/stumbling animation. How many times in a game do you almost see a LB get juked, but he sticks out his hand and barely is able to trip the runner up......or a back is going around the edge and just loses his footing and stumbles. it happens almost every play, but you never see it "in the game".

shut da hell up man. just because we like what we see and u dont, doesnt make us "easily swayed". me and millions of others will u buy it. since u dont like it. dont buy it. spare us the grumble u and others always come on these madden boards to preach.

every damn thread is the same thing. go play the other games u have in ur library and leave madden alone.

# 167 ODogg @ 05/16/08 12:13 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rawdeal28


	shut da hell up man. just because we like what we see and u dont, doesnt make us "easily swayed". me and millions of others will u buy it. since u dont like it. dont buy it. spare us the grumble u and others always come on these madden boards to preach. every damn thread is the same thing. go play the other games u have in ur library and leave madden alone.

Amen man! Just because we may have differing opinions than you does not mean we can't think for ourselves. Ridiculous.

# 168 scourge @ 05/16/08 12:13 AM

I guess I'm one of the few who is unimpressed.

First off the graphics are awesome and the new animations are great. But there is way too much bumping into each other tackles. Almost no wrapping guys up. And when they do seem to wrap guys up they roll right off them when they go down.

Its not a big deal but I'm tired of guys hitting like bumper cars. Oh and all the gang tackling others mentioned.

Oh well, I'm still very excited for this years game.

# 169 scourge @ 05/16/08 12:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rawdeal28


	shut da hell up man. just because we like what we see and u dont, doesnt make us "easily swayed". me and millions of others will u buy it. since u dont like it. dont buy it. spare us the grumble u and others always come on these madden boards to preach. every damn thread is the same thing. go play the other games u have in ur library and leave madden alone.

I thought the point of forums was to have discussions

# 170 ODogg @ 05/16/08 12:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by scourge


	I thought the point of forums was to have discussions

it's just a tired arguement that's played out is all..

# 171 FFBACKLASH @ 05/16/08 12:25 AM

Definitely > Madden 08 but still< tackle alley. I'll be impressed when Tiburon shows gang tackles.

# 172 FFBACKLASH @ 05/16/08 12:36 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by stmark


	Here comes the complaining give it a rest you dont like it dont look at it or buy it enjoy the video they improved a system in one year give credit where its due no video game will ever be perfect......live in the now wooooooooosaaaaaaaa

That's a skewed statement. While it's clearly improved, it's not a 1 yr improvement. It's the latest tweak on an engine they've been tweaking since this generation began.
Tiburon should take a page from EA Canada and actuallt rebuild something. When NBA Live failed EA Canada skipped the PS3 version and started from near scratch. NHL 07 was the product of skipping the 06 season and franchise is now the best representation of its respective sport.

# 173 BrianFifaFan @ 05/16/08 12:44 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by FFBACKLASH


	That's a skewed statement. While it's clearly improved, it's not a 1 yr improvement. It's the latest tweak on an engine they've been tweaking since this generation began. Tiburon should take a page from EA Canada and actuallt rebuild something. When NBA Live failed EA Canada skipped the PS3 version and started from near scratch. NHL 07 was the product of skipping the 06 season and franchise is now the best representation of its respective sport.

I'll agree about NHL, but you forgot how Fifa has grown leaps and bounds,too. Now NBA Live, I'm still not feeling it. But EA Canada is definitely on the ball! And they have Fight Night now as well, I can't wait to see how they bring that to the next level.......

# 174 JRod @ 05/16/08 01:05 AM

If Madden made the an improvement like FIFA, I would be very impressed. It's not as bad as live, just right there in mediocrity.

# 175 scourge @ 05/16/08 01:19 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	it's just a tired arguement that's played out is all..

yeah, thats true

# 176 jyoung @ 05/16/08 02:52 AM

Aside from all the over-the-top NFL Blitz hits, this is actually a pretty impressive upgrade.

If only they would put this kind of effort into the rest of the gameplay (player movement, especially), they would be on their way to at least matching 2K in the animations/movement department.

# 177 Hassan Darkside @ 05/16/08 03:11 AM

Actually there's gang tackles in the video.

22 seconds-There's a 2-man gang tackle, 2 Ravens tackle LT. It looks like it's from last year though.

45 seconds- Two Chargers tackle Willis McGahee. Looks like there may have been impact by both and one stumbles and falls after the hit is made. It doesn't look like it's one of the ones where a player gets tackled and a close defender just falls down.
53 seconds- Two chargers tackle McGahee at the line of scrimmage.

56 seconds- Ray Lewis wraps LT up and Terrell Suggs comes in and nails LT.

My complaint though still is that the near defenders don't react with the ball carrier enough. More often than not, they should swarm the ball carrier and there should be gang tackles a lot of the time. Maybe it's something they can work on with good defensive teams/bad defensive teams. The problem is that the other defenders just wander around and fall over when the initial tackle is made near them.

# 178 Scott @ 05/16/08 03:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruff Ryder


	Actually there's gang tackles in the video. 22 seconds-There's a 2-man gang tackle, 2 Ravens tackle LT. It looks like it's from last year though. 45 seconds- Two Chargers tackle Willis McGahee. Looks like there may have been impact by both and one stumbles and falls after the hit is made. It doesn't look like it's one of the ones where a player gets tackled and a close defender just falls down. 53 seconds- Two chargers tackle McGahee at the line of scrimmage. 56 seconds- Ray Lewis wraps LT up and Lee Suggs comes in and nails LT. My complaint though still is that the near defenders don't react with the ball carrier enough. More often than not, they should swarm the ball carrier and there should be gang tackles a lot of the time. Maybe it's something they can work on with good defensive teams/bad defensive teams. The problem is that the other defenders just wander around and fall over when the initial tackle is made near them.

I think you mean Terrell Suggs, not Lee..

# 179 Hassan Darkside @ 05/16/08 03:40 AM

Yea I think you're right. 2 am lol.

# 180 Nza @ 05/16/08 03:50 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ruff Ryder


	Actually there's gang tackles in the video. 22 seconds-There's a 2-man gang tackle, 2 Ravens tackle LT. It looks like it's from last year though. 45 seconds- Two Chargers tackle Willis McGahee. Looks like there may have been impact by both and one stumbles and falls after the hit is made. It doesn't look like it's one of the ones where a player gets tackled and a close defender just falls down. 53 seconds- Two chargers tackle McGahee at the line of scrimmage. 56 seconds- Ray Lewis wraps LT up and Lee Suggs comes in and nails LT. My complaint though still is that the near defenders don't react with the ball carrier enough. More often than not, they should swarm the ball carrier and there should be gang tackles a lot of the time. Maybe it's something they can work on with good defensive teams/bad defensive teams. The problem is that the other defenders just wander around and fall over when the initial tackle is made near them.

It depends how you define 'gang tackling'. My idea of gang tackling, at the very least, is defenders being able to change the direction and momentum of a ball carrier after he has already been engaged by a defender. This is a huge deal because it forms some very basic elements to defense in football plus it can directly relate to the outcome of a play. I can't tell you how many times in Madden I've seen a RB approaching a goalline with 3 defenders in his face, and he manages to get in because the 1st defender he comes in contact with slightly before the other 2 initiates a 1 on 1 tackle, and the weight and momentum of the other 2 defenders have no influence on the outcome of the tackle, as they bounce off and/or fall over. Madden "gang tackles" are the same. While most effectively stop a ball carrier in his tracks, they're just canned animations with no real concern for mass and momentum and other physical properties of a collision. Not even the 2K series really achieved this, but it at least made it so 2nd and 3rd defenders can change the result of a tackle after it was already initiated. What this does is it allows for swarming defense to actually make an impact on the game, Madden doesn't allow this and nothing in that video tells me this will change.

The "gang tackles" in this video are about as complex as those in Madden 05 (which I think was the first year EA introduced canned 2 man "gang tackles"). The sad thing is it's so integral to the sport and yet EA seemingly continue to ignore it. It isn't some trivial eye candy, it's an actual pillar in the sport of football. This is why EA are often said to "not get it". It should have been a huge priority to replicate as soon as the hardware permitted it, and according to 2K that was about 4-5 years ago. Still waiting, EA.

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