Madden 09: Tackling Engine Blog & Video

[scourge]

Quote: Originally Posted by ODogg

it's just a tired arguement that's played out is all..

yeah, thats true

[jyoung]

Aside from all the over-the-top NFL Blitz hits, this is actually a pretty impressive upgrade.

If only they would put this kind of effort into the rest of the gameplay (player movement, especially), they would be on their way to at least matching 2K in the animations/movement department.

[Hassan Darkside]

Actually there's gang tackles in the video.

22 seconds-There's a 2-man gang tackle, 2 Ravens tackle LT. It looks like it's from last year though.

45 seconds- Two Chargers tackle Willis McGahee. Looks like there may have been impact by both and one stumbles and falls after the hit is made. It doesn't look like it's one of the ones where a player gets tackled and a close defender just falls down.
53 seconds- Two chargers tackle McGahee at the line of scrimmage.

56 seconds- Ray Lewis wraps LT up and Terrell Suggs comes in and nails LT.

My complaint though still is that the near defenders don't react with the ball carrier enough. More often than not, they should swarm the ball carrier and there should be gang tackles a lot of the time. Maybe it's something they can work on with good defensive teams/bad defensive teams. The problem is that the other defenders just wander around and fall over when the initial tackle is made near them.

[Scott]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ruff Ryder

Actually there's gang tackles in the video. 22 seconds-There's a 2-man gang tackle, 2 Ravens tackle LT. It looks like it's from last year though. 45 seconds- Two Chargers tackle Willis McGahee. Looks like there may have been impact by both and one stumbles and falls after the hit is made. It doesn't look like it's one of the ones where a player gets tackled and a close defender just falls down. 53 seconds- Two chargers tackle McGahee at the line of scrimmage. 56 seconds- Ray Lewis wraps LT up and Lee Suggs comes in and nails LT. My complaint though still is that the near defenders don't react with the ball carrier enough. More often than not, they should swarm the ball carrier and there should be gang tackles a lot of the time. Maybe it's something they can work on with good defensive teams/bad defensive teams. The problem is that the other defenders just wander around and fall over when the initial tackle is made near them.

I think you mean Terrell Suggs, not Lee..

[Hassan Darkside]

Yea I think you're right. 2 am lol.

[Nza]

Quote: Originally Posted by Ruff Ryder

Actually there's gang tackles in the video. 22 seconds-There's a 2-man gang tackle, 2 Ravens tackle LT. It looks like it's from last year though. 45 seconds- Two Chargers tackle Willis McGahee. Looks like there may have been impact by both and one stumbles and falls after the hit is made. It doesn't look like it's one of the ones where a player gets tackled and a close defender just falls down. 53 seconds- Two chargers tackle McGahee at the line of scrimmage. 56 seconds- Ray Lewis wraps LT up and Lee Suggs comes in and nails LT. My complaint though still is that the near defenders don't react with the ball carrier enough. More often than not, they should swarm the ball carrier and there should be gang tackles a lot of the time. Maybe it's something they can work on with good defensive teams/bad defensive teams. The problem is that the other defenders just wander around and fall over when the initial tackle is made near them.

It depends how you define 'gang tackling'. My idea of gang tackling, at the very least, is defenders being able to change the direction and momentum of a ball carrier after he has already been engaged by a defender. This is a huge deal because it forms some very basic elements to defense in football plus it can directly relate to the outcome of a play. I can't tell you how many times in Madden I've seen a RB approaching a goalline with 3 defenders in his face, and he manages to get in because the 1st defender he comes in contact with slightly before the other 2 initiates a 1 on 1 tackle, and the weight and momentum of the other 2 defenders have no influence on the outcome of the tackle, as they bounce off and/or fall over. Madden "gang tackles" are the same. While most effectively stop a ball carrier in his tracks, they're just canned animations with no real concern for mass and momentum and other physical properties of a collision. Not even the 2K series really achieved this, but it at least made it so 2nd and 3rd defenders can change the result of a tackle after it was already initiated. What this does is it allows for swarming defense to actually make an impact on the game, Madden doesn't allow this and nothing in that video tells me this will change.

The "gang tackles" in this video are about as complex as those in Madden 05 (which I think was the first year EA introduced canned 2 man "gang tackles"). The sad thing is it's so integral to the sport and yet EA seemingly continue to ignore it. It isn't some trivial eye candy, it's an actual pillar in the sport of football. This is why EA are often said to "not get it". It should have been a huge priority to replicate as soon as the hardware permitted it, and according to 2K that was about 4-5 years ago. Still waiting, EA.

[sj3981]

The video is impressive, relatively speaking, when compared to any of EA's next gen efforts. And until EA develops a new tackling/physics engine (ie.,euphoria, etc.), we wont see true gang tackling like LB's Boley/Hall example. This is disappointing because all signs point to the fact that this engine will be around for the duration of this generation. That said, the graphics have that WOW effect in regards to the actual player models and I like the new proportions for the players. Its now more along the lines of last generation.

I think its hard to sit here and compare Madden's physics/ tackling engine to other sports games, such as FIFA, because the player contact and interaction is significantly smaller in a sport like soccer as opposed to football or hockey, were hitting is a major aspect of the sport. Not trying to provide excuses for EA here, but developing an effective engine for a football game seems like a much taller order then making one for a soccer game.

[grunt]

I can't really be impressed with the blog/viral marketing of a tweaked tackling engine that is over 7 years old. I seen and played with a better tackling engine for the past 5 years. EA needs to step up and get us a new physics model.