An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

[Manny_Shevitz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Regarding that bit about a .200 hitter maybe hitting .350 - just how likely is that? I mean, it could happen in real baseball as well, it would just be very unlikely/difficult to sustain. I don't care if he wouldn't bat "exactly" .200 - he wouldn't likely in real life or even in The Show, but would it be exceptionally difficult to pull off a .350 average? Also, about the "sacrificing some degree of statistical reality" or something of that effect - would difficulty levels change that? I'm messing around with them in Powerful Pro Yakyuu (picked it up based on the thread here ) because it felt a little "Baseball Stars-ish" in that it's crazy fun, but the games were like 12-8 or something. Now, they are more like 5-4, or sometimes less (lost one recently 3-1 in the 9th...damn closer!) which is cool. Assuming Powerful Pro is similar under the hood to PYS, I really like the system. I'm all for the physics-focus. After all, a .200 hitter is like that because of physics and his own (lack of) ability. And yeah, defense...whew - learned fast to bring in the defense in a close game and/or keep defense at 2B/SS/CF. Anyway, I'm looking at picking up the "big brother" of Powerful Pro Yakyuu and was curious to what some folks thought since it seems everyone in the thread has way more experience with Konami's brand of baseball. (Edit: 1-star thread? LOL, no way this is a "terrible" thread)

Pro Yakyuu Spirits and Powerful Pro are fairly similar under the hood, but Pro Yakyuu is a bit more complex, both in terms of physics, and the various ways that a batter's cursor is affected by his attributes/special skills, as well as those of the pitcher he is facing. Also, Powerful Pro's pitching mechanics are a simplified version of Pro Yakyuu's.

As for how possible/likely it would be to get unrealistic batting stats, the difficulty levels you choose would have a huge impact on that. Unlike The Show, there are no sliders in PYS, per se, which makes it very easy to keep the game balanced, while adjusting the difficulty to suit your specific skill set. Do you have amazing hand-eye coordination? Bump the pitching speed up to Real. Not getting enough hits, but pitching like an ace? Increase the CPU Hitting difficulty, while bumping down either pitch speed or CPU Pitching (just don't bump it below Hard-, or you'll get too many pitches up the middle). Basically, unless you have god-like reflexes, you will find a sweet spot in difficulty and pitch speed that will net you realistic stats. If you've already played Powerful Pro, you know how the batting cursor changes in size, depending on the attributes of the player at bat. This is even more pronounced and variable in Pro Yakyuu Spirits, so all else being equal in terms of your personal skills and difficulty settings, you are going to have a much harder time making solid contact with a scrub than you will with a star player. Hope that answers your question.

As for why this thread has a "terrible" rating, I can only assume that too many The Show fans didn't like me implying that PYS is the better game.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Manny_Shevitz

Pro Yakyuu Spirits and Powerful Pro are fairly similar under the hood, but Pro Yakyuu is a bit more complex, both in terms of physics, and the various ways that a batter's cursor is affected by his attributes/special skills, as well as those of the pitcher he is facing. Also, Powerful Pro's pitching mechanics are a simplified version of Pro Yakyuu's. As for how possible/likely it would be to get unrealistic batting stats, the difficulty levels you choose would have a huge impact on that. Unlike The Show, there are no sliders in PYS, per se, which makes it very easy to keep the game balanced, while adjusting the difficulty to suit your specific skill set. Do you have amazing hand-eye coordination? Bump the pitching speed up to Real. Not getting enough hits, but pitching like an ace? Increase the CPU Hitting difficulty, while bumping down either pitch speed or CPU Pitching (just don't bump it below Hard-, or you'll get too many pitches up the middle). Basically, unless you have god-like reflexes, you will find a sweet spot in difficulty and pitch speed that will net you realistic stats. If you've already played Powerful Pro, you know how the batting cursor changes in size, depending on the attributes of the player at bat. This is even more pronounced and variable in Pro Yakyuu Spirits, so all else being equal in terms of your personal skills and difficulty settings, you are going to have a much harder time making solid contact with a scrub than you will with a star player. Hope that answers your question. As for why this thread has a "terrible" rating, I can only assume that too many The Show fans didn't like me implying that PYS is the better game.

Yes, it answered my question quite well - thank you!

I'll have to try finding a copy. Yeah, I won't be going to the easier pitching difficulties if only because I like trying to draw walks - and, well, can't do that if you're not getting balls I'd probably be arguing with myself about which of the Hards I like - I see something I like in all three of them on those pitch charts at the Spirits Translation site.

Is there anything particularly different about any of the recent versions (just in case I can't get 13 without paying a mint)? Anything significantly lost in features/gameplay with, say, any version from 2010 onward?

[lhslancers]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Yes, it answered my question quite well - thank you! I'll have to try finding a copy. Yeah, I won't be going to the easier pitching difficulties if only because I like trying to draw walks - and, well, can't do that if you're not getting balls I'd probably be arguing with myself about which of the Hards I like - I see something I like in all three of them on those pitch charts at the Spirits Translation site. Is there anything particularly different about any of the recent versions (just in case I can't get 13 without paying a mint)? Anything significantly lost in features/gameplay with, say, any version from 2010 onward?

I haven't played 13 but have 4-12 all but 12 bought from Japanese sellers on eBay.
After playing The Show for about a year and a half now I could not go back to PYS. I do not care for the hitting mechanic at all. Too old maybe. Overall I liked the game but a few things did bother me about it. If the devs could put a decent Timing hitting option in like The Show has I would be willing to take another whack at it but not for 90 bucks.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

Yes, it answered my question quite well - thank you! I'll have to try finding a copy. Yeah, I won't be going to the easier pitching difficulties if only because I like trying to draw walks - and, well, can't do that if you're not getting balls I'd probably be arguing with myself about which of the Hards I like - I see something I like in all three of them on those pitch charts at the Spirits Translation site. Is there anything particularly different about any of the recent versions (just in case I can't get 13 without paying a mint)? Anything significantly lost in features/gameplay with, say, any version from 2010 onward?

I'll tell you why I think 2013 is the best version, and in the process, give some of the pros and cons of 2010 - 2012.

Starting with graphics, 2013 takes all of the visual improvements that 2011 and 2012 made, and gives it a nice spit shine. It's nothing like the leap that the graphics made from 2010 to 2011/2012, just a few textures here and there, and an overall increase in sharpness. The crowds in 2013 are also the best looking of any version. The one area of graphics that did receive a pretty significant improvement is in the batting and pitching animations. The animations in PYS were already great, but 2013 took things a step further.

Gameplay, generally speaking, is overall the most polished in 2013. There's very little in the way of baserunning or fielding AI that will have you scratching your head. Maybe the CPU pitchers could be a little more aggressive in trying to pick off/hold up your baserunners, and it is virtually impossible to get HBPs, either when pitching or by a CPU pitcher, but those are minor things compared to everything the game does right. More specifically, and what really elevates 2013 above its predecessors, are the improvements that were made to the pitching mechanics. Jimbo touched on this briefly a few posts back, but I'll elaborate on it. If there was one gameplay weakness that all previous versions of PYS shared, it was that throwing accurate pitches, regardless of who you were pitching with, was a little too easy. Basically, even if your release timing was off, your pitch was still going to more or less go where you aimed it. This made it fairly easy to paint the corners every game, whether you had your ace on the mound or not. Well, 2013 changed all that. Now your release timing is more important than ever, and can mean the difference between a perfect curveball that drops just out of reach, or a meatball that hangs over the plate. And the results of a mistimed release are a lot more pronounced if you've got a less skilled pitcher on the mound. I cannot stress enough how much this improved an already excellent game. Whereas in previous versions, your pitching rotation and bullpen could more or less be an afterthought, now it is just as important as your lineup or subbing in your best defensive players in the later innnings of a close game.

As far as features go, there aren't many differences from one version to the next. I think it was 2012 that introduced the ability to play a multi-season Pennant (Franchise?) mode, and added a post-season and a draft, so if that's important to you, you don't want to get 2010 or 2011. Again, 2013 improved on this by incorporating a much more intuitive and useful player development system, similar to the one that Powerful Pro uses.

The upshot of all this is, if it is within your means, even if you have to forego buying a couple of other games to justify the purchase, get PYS 2013. It is well worth the extra cost. If, on the other hand, you are just dead set against the idea of spending $80 on a single game, or your situation is such that you have to scrimp and save wherever you can, and you absolutely must go with a cheaper option, then my recommendation would be PYS 2010. After 2013, it has the most solid and balanced gameplay. If you're not overly concerned about graphics, and you don't mind that the rosters will be outdated by a few years, you'll have the most fun with 2010. Also, even though the rosters are outdated, 2010 was the last year that a lot of Japan's most exciting players were still with the NPB. Since then, many have retired or been scooped up by the MLB. If you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of CPU AI logic for much-improved graphics, get 2011. It's still a very solid game, with just a little bit of baserunning wonkiness, and toned-down hitting power. Finally, you should probably avoid 2012, unless you're a masochist. Konami made the CPU pitchers way too good at painting the corners, on top of increasing the size of the strike zone, and nerfing all of the hitters' attributes. They did fix some of this with subsequent updates, but batting against the CPU is still often an exercise in frustration.

The upshot to the upshot is get PYS 2013.

[Lap_Down]

^ There was a thread before that went into great detail about the differences between PYS 2012, 2011 and 2010... stuff like they changed the ball and other things like that. I can't seem to find it at the moment, but I remember reading it and it was very informative.

Quote: Originally Posted by lhslancers

I haven't played 13 but have 4-12 all but 12 bought from Japanese sellers on eBay. After playing The Show for about a year and a half now I could not go back to PYS. I do not care for the hitting mechanic at all. Too old maybe. Overall I liked the game but a few things did bother me about it. If the devs could put a decent Timing hitting option in like The Show has I would be willing to take another whack at it but not for 90 bucks.

Wow... you like totally went the opposite direction from me. LOL. One of the things I don't like about The Show is that sometimes I will feel that I hit the ball perfectly, but then I still won't get a hit... it is very frustrating. I haven't felt that yet with PYS... if I don't get a hit in PYS it feels like it is completely my fault... it could all just be in my head though.

Quote: Originally Posted by Manny_Shevitz

Starting with graphics, 2013 takes all of the visual improvements that 2011 and 2012 made, and gives it a nice spit shine. It's nothing like the leap that the graphics made from 2010 to 2011/2012, just a few textures here and there, and an overall increase in sharpness. If you're not overly concerned about graphics, and you don't mind that the rosters will be outdated by a few years, you'll have the most fun with 2010. Also, even though the rosters are outdated, 2010 was the last year that a lot of Japan's most exciting players were still with the NPB. Since then, many have retired or been scooped up by the MLB. If you're willing to sacrifice a little bit of CPU AI logic for much-improved graphics, get 2011. It's still a very solid game, with just a little bit of baserunning wonkiness, and toned-down hitting power.

I looked at some vids on youtube and was kinda stunned to see the graphical differences between PYS2010 and 2011. PYS2010 just looks like an updated and less blurry version of PYS4. PYS2011 on the other hand looks like an entirely different game almost. I don't think I could give up those 2011 graphics even for a better version of the game. LOL.

And one of the things I like better in PYS over The Show is that I think PYS has real sponsors in their stadiums. I don't know if it is still like that in the newer versions of the game though, but a small detail like that really helps with the immersion factor IMO.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Quote: Originally Posted by Lap_Down

Wow... you like totally went the opposite direction from me. LOL. One of the things I don't like about The Show is that sometimes I will feel that I hit the ball perfectly, but then I still won't get a hit... it is very frustrating. I haven't felt that yet with PYS... if I don't get a hit in PYS it feels like it is completely my fault... it could all just be in my head though.

It is definitely not all in your head. The batting engine in PYS uses very precise bat-on-ball physics, which puts you in control of if and how well you are going to hit the ball. The Show, on the other hand, takes most of the control out of your hands, and uses the batter's attributes and stats to determine the outcome of each swing. For baseball purists who obsess over realistic year-end stats for each player on a team, I guess that's a good thing. Personally, I just find it boring.

Quote:

And one of the things I like better in PYS over The Show is that I think PYS has real sponsors in their stadiums. I don't know if it is still like that in the newer versions of the game though, but a small detail like that really helps with the immersion factor IMO.

Yes, PYS 2013 still uses real sponsors in their stadiums. Most of them are Japanese companies, naturally, but I think at least one stadium has a Coca-Cola sign.

[KBLover]

Quote: Originally Posted by Manny_Shevitz

It is definitely not all in your head. The batting engine in PYS uses very precise bat-on-ball physics, which puts you in control of if and how well you are going to hit the ball. The Show, on the other hand, takes most of the control out of your hands, and uses the batter's attributes and stats to determine the outcome of each swing. For baseball purists who obsess over realistic year-end stats for each player on a team, I guess that's a good thing. Personally, I just find it boring.

Well - it doesn't really do that in regards to the just replicating the year-end stats, but it does get to feel like it's too much RNG sometimes, but I also tend to use Timing interface.

But you can still have over/underperformers. Longoria hit .390 for me last year. But Escobar barely broke the Mendoza line.

I do like that the batter attributes are used and meaningful, especially in Timing interface, so I have a reason to care if a guy has bad plate vision, etc - and they are used in PYS as well from your description so it's not as though attributes don't matter at all (which is saying a lot about PYS's execution - usually "total user control" systems allow the user to basically ignore the abilities of the player).

Unlike Triple Play where I could hit 30 HR with pitchers LOL

[Manny_Shevitz]

Quote: Originally Posted by KBLover

I do like that the batter attributes are used and meaningful, especially in Timing interface, so I have a reason to care if a guy has bad plate vision, etc - and they are used in PYS as well from your description so it's not as though attributes don't matter at all (which is saying a lot about PYS's execution - usually "total user control" systems allow the user to basically ignore the abilities of the player).

Yeah, that is why I feel like PYS is a tough sell for people who are used to The Show, and want attributes and stats to be meaningful. Until you actually start playing PYS, it's very difficult to grasp how batter attributes are, in fact, very meaningful, while still giving the player such a high degree of control. It's why I have so much respect for this game and the developers who make it; they really came up with such an elegant and refined set of mechanics.

I know I overstated The Show's lack of control, but like you said, it often feels like the results are random.