An in-depth comparison of The Show and Pro Yakyuu Spirits (for anyone who cares)

[Manny_Shevitz]

I've noticed that there are some new people showing interest in PYS over on the "Pro Yakyuu Spirits 2012" thread, and a couple of people have asked how it compares to The Show. And since nobody else seems to be in any hurry to start a comparison thread, I've decided to take the initiative.

Now, I would hardly consider myself the most qualified to do a comparison between the two games. I am by no means the biggest baseball fan around here, though I do love the game. I have played The Show off and on since the '09 version, and I've only played the 2010 and 2011 versions of PYS, though quite a bit of both. But I think I have a pretty solid idea of what distinguishes these two great baseball games, other than the obvious fact that one of them is a representation of the MLB, while the other is a representation of the Japanese equivalent, NPB. I will mostly try to keep my comparisons objective, while occasionally giving some subjective thoughts on why I prefer the PYS series as a whole. I tend to be long-winded, so I'm just warning everyone in advance that this is probably going to be a pretty long read.

The first thing I will get out of the way is the graphics. There's no doubt that The Show probably has the most photo-realistic graphics of any baseball videogame on the market. The attention paid to detail is truly astounding, and watching the action play out in The Show really does often feel like you're watching a broadcast of a real game. Each year they seem to get things a little bit better, and 2012 is no exception. This is a beautiful looking game. That being said, PYS has some of its own strengths in its graphics, specifically animations, where I feel The Show is lacking. The most obvious is in player swing and follow through animations. The variety of follow throughs in PYS, I feel, more than makes up for what it may be lacking in the smaller details like clothing textures and facial features. And the swing animations are contextual in PYS. For example, when a batter is swinging for contact and just misses a pitch in the zone, it looks completely different than if he's swinging for the fences and gets fooled on a pitch that he is way out in front of. And those animations will look different depending on who the batter is at the plate. While The Show's animations have gotten better, I still don't think they are anywhere close to the variety you see in PYS. I also think PYS has an edge when it comes to pitch delivery animations, though The Show has caught up a bit this year. Other than that, I think fielding animations are a little better in The Show, although I do personally prefer the look of diving catches made by infielders in PYS.

Gameplay comparisons between the two games really comes down to understanding that these two series are based on very different overall design philosophies, and each of those philosophies come with their own set of challenges. Without knowing exactly what the development process is for either game, there are still certain assumptions that can be made. For example, San Diego Studios clearly were looking to create a game that most realistically simulated the tendencies and statistics of real life players and teams in the MLB. And their game is built from the ground up with that philosophy in mind. The obvious challenge of this design philosophy is "How do we maintain this level of statistical realism, while also making the player feel engaged in the moment to moment aspects of the game?" With this in mind, The Show has continued to innovate with multiple types of batting an pitching interfaces, each providing the player with a different level of control over the outcome of an at-bat, and offering a great degree of choice to the player in how they want to interact with the game. One of the drawbacks to this system is that relying so heavily on player attributes and statistical analysis creates a certain degree of rigidity. For example, if you have a power slugger at the plate who tends to put up high home run numbers every year, and he's facing off against a pitcher who tends to give up a lot of hits against him, the variety of outcomes that could occur in that at-bat narrows somewhat. Statistically this makes perfect sense, but from a gameplay standpoint, it can make things a little stale, because I think it creates a disconnect between the game and the person with the controller in his hands. The Show 2012 has gone a long way to improve on this with its new physics engine, but it's only an improvement, and does not eliminate the problem altogether. That is, for those of us who see it as a problem.

In contrast to The Show, the gameplay in PYS is built on a foundation of realistic bat on ball physics. You could almost say that the Pro Yakyuu Spirits design philosophy started on the complete opposite end of the spectrum from The Show. Along with realistic physics comes the need for a cursor based batting interface. I believe this to be the case for one simple reason: when the most minute difference in the positioning and timing of the swing of the bat can mean the difference between an infield ground out and a line drive over the 2nd baseman's head, it is essential that the player (that is, the person playing the game) feels as though he is in complete control of his swing. If too much reliance is placed on statistical analysis, the variety of outcomes would feel too arbitrary. The challenge with this design philosophy, in contrast to the challenge faced by The Show developers, is "With so much control put in the hands of the user, how do we make each individual player's attributes and year-to-year statistics matter? How do we make each at-bat 'feel' different?" And here is where I think the brilliance of the PYS series really shines through. Not that it's perfect. Not that the game doesn't have to sacrifice some degree of statistical accuracy in order to make sure that the player is in complete control, but the amount of realism that it sacrifices is, in my opinion, very small, and absolutely worth it because of the level of fun that the game provides. The simplest way to explain how the system works in PYS is this: every aspect of the batter's attributes and every aspect of the pitcher's attributes takes effect before the pitch is thrown and before the bat is swung. Left-handed pitcher versus right-handed batter? Batter's contact attribute? Power attribute? Pitcher's confidence level? Fatigue level? Pitch count? All of these things matter, but none of them take over after you swing the bat. Nothing overrides what YOU do. For example, if you have a mediocre batter at the plate who's contact rating isn't very high, and you're facing off against an ace, and the count is 0-2, you're going to have a very small cursor, and a very small window of opportunity to make solid contact with a pitch. But if you do, if you get the pitch you want, and you line that cursor up just right, and you time your swing just right, something good is going to happen, and you're the one who made it happen. At the moment you swing the bat, there's no algorithm that looks at your batter's likelihood of getting a hit in that situation and says "Well, yes, timing and positioning of the swing were perfect, and the pitch was right in the batter's wheelhouse, but in this situation the statistical likelihood of this particular batter getting a base hit off of this particular pitcher on an 0-2 count is only 2.2%, so this swing is going to result in a slow ground ball to the shortstop." Does this mean that it's possible in PYS to end up with a player on your team who would normally finish the season with around a .200 batting average, hitting .350 in your season? Yes, it's possible. It isn't likely, but if your hand-eye coordination and reflexes are just that good, then yes, that might happen. And that's exactly what might turn off a lot of people who are fans of The Show. And that's understandable. We all have our own reasons for playing these games, and we all have different views on what constitutes a good baseball simulation. Do I think it's fair to say that The Show is more sim than PYS because of how much statistics and attributes affect the outcome of every at-bat? No, I don't. There are different aspects of simulation in a baseball game, and it's impossible to objectively say that one is more important than the other. For some, simulating the statistical outcomes of real life baseball is the most important. For others, the most important thing is simulating the feeling of eying down a pitch as it comes toward the plate, and making a snap decision of whether, where, and when to swing the bat. Where you fall in your preferences will go a long way in determining if PYS is a series that you would like, or if you should just stick with The Show. And that's not to say that The Show only offers one and PYS only offers the other. Both games succeed on some level in both gameplay and statistical realism, just not in the same way.

Ok, I was going to get into other aspects of both games, such as sliders versus no sliders, difficulty options, presentation, etc., but this post is getting really long (I warned you guys that I can be long-winded), and I don't know how many people are even going to read it. I'd love it if some other people who play or have played both games would chime in with some of their thoughts on this, and feel free to challenge me on any areas where you think I may be off base. And I apologize if attempting to read through this puts people to sleep. I'm having a slow day at work.

[lhslancers]

PYS is just more fun to play.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Quote: Originally Posted by lhslancers

PYS is just more fun to play.

Man, I could have saved a lot of time if I had just typed that.

[lhslancers]

Quote: Originally Posted by Manny_Shevitz

Man, I could have saved a lot of time if I had just typed that.

PYS has some problems that anyone who has played the games even a little bit knows about. Collision detection a few things like that but they do not detract from the gameplay. 2010 doesn't compare to The Show graphically but I think that 2011 does. In all the important areas pitching hitting and fielding PYS is the better game.

[Manny_Shevitz]

Quote: Originally Posted by lhslancers

PYS has some problems that anyone who has played the games even a little bit knows about. Collision detection a few things like that but they do not detract from the gameplay. 2010 doesn't compare to The Show graphically but I think that 2011 does. In all the important areas pitching hitting and fielding PYS is the better game.

I agree with everything you said, but "better" is subjective. I know a lot of The Show players who like to use timing-only batting, because they feel that provides them with the purest simulation experience. They don't want to have too much control over the outcome, and would prefer to let the stats take over after they swing the bat, and determine where the ball goes. Same with pitching. A lot of players use Classic pitching in that game, and I'm sure they would scoff at how easy it can be to place pitches where you want them in PYS. I think those people are nuts, but to each his own.

[jmount78]

Manny_Shevitz, that was a great read. I will be very interested to compare PYS 11 and MLB 12 and see if your review holds true for me.

What are your thoughts on the game day experience while playing an exhibition game, etc? Even though I know no Japanese, does the music or crowd noise equal The Show in quality? Or for that matter, do the announcers voice inflection seem to go along with what the action is?

Thanks again for your review.

[lhslancers]

Quote: Originally Posted by Manny_Shevitz

I agree with everything you said, but "better" is subjective. I know a lot of The Show players who like to use timing-only batting, because they feel that provides them with the purest simulation experience. They don't want to have too much control over the outcome, and would prefer to let the stats take over after they swing the bat, and determine where the ball goes. Same with pitching. A lot of players use Classic pitching in that game, and I'm sure they would scoff at how easy it can be to place pitches where you want them in PYS. I think those people are nuts, but to each his own.

If you can release all of your pitchers perfectly then yes it can be easy to paint the corners and beat the CPU on all but the hardest difficulty. But...if you miss with a few pitches you can easily give up a run or 3.

I have no interest in simming a season with a video game. I want to play.

[tvman]

For anyone unfamiliar with PYS and the Spirits Translation site i thought i'd throw in the link to Verns videos on how to play the game.


http://www.spiritstranslation.com/fo....php?f=6&t=279