NBA Live 13 Gameplay Video - Miami Heat vs. Oklahoma City Thunder

[Pared]

Quote: Originally Posted by King_B_Mack

You have a solid point, but there has to be a better way to word that. Live hasn't been competition for 2K for quite some time now and we've seen innovation. We've seen new things. Saying it like that makes it seem like the other guys are just sitting around doing nothing or something.

Fair enough; you can argue that but evolution is not innovation.

While this isn't the 2k forum, it was many of Live's failures that setup 2k to release a feature that was well done. I can point back to this for years.

Now imagine how many of those items would NOT be in 2k if it weren't for Live failing.

The competing product doesn't have to be solid. But it needs to be there at least trying.

[bigdoc85]

Okay -- this whole thing doesn't make sense to me. 22cedric puts this up (which I still question his agenda). EA takes it down based on intellectual property rights. EA releases a statement. Everyone has a field day commenting on how bad it is. Now the video is back up? What the heck is going on? This must be part of the disruptive marketing strategy.

[barimanlhs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Pared

Fair enough; you can argue that but evolution is not innovation. While this isn't the 2k forum, it was many of Live's failures that setup 2k to release a feature that was well done. I can point back to this for years. Now imagine how many of those items would NOT be in 2k if it weren't for Live failing. The competing product doesn't have to be solid. But it needs to be there at least trying.

I think it should also be pointed out that without Mike Wang we wouldnt have the very comparible LIve 10 NOR would we have had the jump from 2k10 to 11, and what appears to be 2k12 to 13. So while 2k is using things introduced in Live, really it is Mike revamping and improving on his own elements.

I will say it was quite interesting when there were 3 NBA games. 1 was god awful, the others were average to good. I do find it odd that 2k has gotten exponetinally better with the lack of competition. Based on other games (Madden...) I would think that it would stay stale.

It really is a connundrum, competition usually brings out the best of all parties, good or bad, and the best usually wins out. And that has happened but 2k hasnt stopped improving basically disproving the point that competition fuels innovation or improvement.

[Jukeman]

The way 2ksports games have been falling, I dont think 2ksports can afford to slack off and not innovate. EASports on the other hand can "slack off" with Madden for many reasons we already know.

I think the underdog will always go out and prove to the world no matter if the competition is there or not.

2k "sports" only has 1 sports game right now (and Top Spin, lol but didnt EASports buy all the license courts?)

[barimanlhs]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jukeman

By the way 2k games have been falling, I dont think 2k can afford to slack off and not innovate. EA on the other hand can "slack off" with Madden for many reasons we already know.

Perhaps this is why 2k has done so well with basketball. There is no official licence so anyone, at any time, can come in and potentially steal the throne. Where as football, you can make a game about football but without the official teams and players its nearly impossible to bring that mass crowd, no matter how much better the game may play or look.

The licencing is the end all be all for sports games and luckily the NBA has it right where they want anyone to make a game as long as it properly represents the sport and doesnt paint the NBA as a negative.

I wonder, could they build live off of the NBA Street Homecourt engine? The players moved very well and although there is no regard for physics it could be easily implimented or tweaked (id assume, I dont know the whole process)

[CMH]

It's a good convo, but let's stop talking about 2K in this thread.

The thread is to discuss (unfortunately) the quality of the Live video.

[siraulo23]

I'm really hoping this is a pre alpha build like EA is saying and the final product is at least equal live 10, that game was pretty decent

[Crimsontide27]

Im going to be very cautious with what I say here as I value my paychecks. Having said that, this was not a pre-alpha build and was actually in fact what was planned to be released as a demo.

The reason this video was not released is because of what exactly happened here, the game just isnt good and the backlash gets all the negative attention. When the game was actually shown at other venues, the response was the same from people inside and outside of the industry. It was during a recent showing that the idea of actually not releasing the title at all and skipping another year was thrown around.

The people that are actively involved in making the game truly feel like it was a superior product and worthy of release, but thats because they basically built the game from the ground up...yet again, and feel a huge accomplishment just getting everything running correctly. I wont get into technical speak, but instead of taking a foundation and trying to improve on it year after year, they try to reinvent the wheel and start fresh each time....which is very time consuming. The only thing I can think of right now to compare it to would be like being giving a task to dig a ditch. You could go out and bust your tail digging with a spoon and work harder than you ever have and accomplish nothing...but your coworker grabs a bulldozer and completes the project with no hard work...just using their head.

The way you can tell that the video you are not seeing is "pre-alpha" is by the font in the menus, the colors were wrong actually on the Thunder if I remember correctly , the entire presentation package is in etc....this was actually a build that was further along than the one shown at the recent conventions and shows...and I do believe some community guys got an opportunity to see it , but had to sign confidentiality agreements.

What hurts the most is when you work very hard to make something, and then everyone tears it down. Morale around EA is not very high right now. You have people being moved from project to project...you have some being relocated to different studios in different cities, you have knowledge that some franchises are actually slated to be cut out completely , you have the knowledge that the company is actually being shopped out and has a potential buyer in the background , you dont know if you are going to be employed this time next year...etc ..etc...etc...

Some may say its the nature of the turf, but the decsions that are made are not made by the majority of the rank and file employee, its by upper management that has no clue about how and why people play games....its about the bottom line. Cut costs as much as possible, release as little as an upgrade as possible, and release it and just count profit is their motto.

I mentioned in a post a long time ago about a meeting about MLB The Show. Probably one of the best represented sports titles to date, but yet has declining sales every year. The game is so good, that many dont buy the next years iteration....and thats the mentality at EA....dont release a product that has very little faults, as it wont sell the next year. Why do you think youve not seen many PC releases of sports titles? Their are arm chair devs out there that will spend their time for free to update those titles and keep them ahead of what is being released.



What you are seeing now is the decline of a video game giant that is being run by people that only care about the bottom line ...WHILE they are there, and nothing more. They are not looking at it as a long term venture, more like....."I plan on retiring in 5 years, so lets make as much profit as possible...and worry about damage to our brands later, since I wont be here to deal with it" Or at least thats the mentality.

Its a small industry, many people know others outside their own studios and as such rumors run about. You have PopCap, that was recently bought for $1billion and produced some great titles, but now employees are on the chopping block...you have Westwood studios that has lost people left and right, you have Origin and Maxis losing people....and the big elephant in the room was Bioware.....who have lost almost half their staff.

The people losing their jobs are not the ones that make descions, its the worker bees who just do what they are told.

After several key people left from another prominent team left and formed their own company not too long ago, others took notice. They can get their independent freedom back by making tablet games and avoid the corporate atmosphere where they are dogged daily by their consumers.

Bad decsions after bad decsions have left a void where great people used to work, its a changed enviroment and recently quality has reflected that.