2k's Obsession with Shooting Cheese

[The 24th Letter]

2K has always put an emphasis on shot timing...it's the reason the plea for a visual aid began in the first place. Every year we'd have a "I can't shoot with - " thread because of a funky release point prior to 2K15. So it's not necessarily a new emphasis. Offline, sure...change the players release to a more releastic, easier one...but online...it would actually hinder some good squads from being used. You definitely couldn't wing it like you can now, you rolled with the squad whos shots you had down, lol. That 'skill' aspect should always be apart of the game IMO...but it definitely shouldn't be the only part.

[jk31]

Quote: Originally Posted by The 24th Letter

2K has always put an emphasis on shot timing...it's the reason the plea for a visual aid began in the first place. Every year we'd have a "I can't shoot with - " thread because of a funky release point prior to 2K15. So it's not necessarily a new emphasis. Offline, sure...change the players release to a more releastic, easier one...but online...it would actually hinder some good squads from being used. You definitely couldn't wing it like you can now, you rolled with the squad whos shots you had down, lol. That 'skill' aspect should always be apart of the game IMO...but it definitely shouldn't be the only part.

i dont say that Timing should not matter at all. i am saying that There should be no guaranteed 100% makes just because you Timed it right. why Not go back to like it was in older games? perfect Timing meant you maximize your shot percentage according to the players rating and shot quality. if you mistime the shot, you get a Malus depending on how far youve been Off.

[BQ32]

Quote: Originally Posted by jk31

i dont say that Timing should not matter at all. i am saying that There should be no guaranteed 100% makes just because you Timed it right. why Not go back to like it was in older games? perfect Timing meant you maximize your shot percentage according to the players rating and shot quality. if you mistime the shot, you get a Malus depending on how far youve been Off.

This x 1000, there is no reason that a pure defensive build should stand in a corner and make every single open shot because they mastered precisely how long to push x/square over a year. It is absolutely ridiculous that people think this is what should set people apart skillwise when they only use this one shot and never play any other mode. Think about that versus someone that wants to play a variety of teams with a variety of players instead. It has led to very arcade like gameplay. In the past at least a perfectly timed shot did not always result in a green, maybe 60 percent of the time, but now with badge stacking you don't even need that high of a 3 rating to guarantee you can make every shot with perfect timing. Just play a few games against decent squads and keep track of the 3 point percentages. Sometimes it gets to the point where if you miss a couple you are dooming your team to a loss.

[The 24th Letter]

Quote: Originally Posted by jk31

i dont say that Timing should not matter at all. i am saying that There should be no guaranteed 100% makes just because you Timed it right. why Not go back to like it was in older games? perfect Timing meant you maximize your shot percentage according to the players rating and shot quality. if you mistime the shot, you get a Malus depending on how far youve been Off.

I got what you were saying, like I said, I agree it should be far from the only factor.

I just don't agree with some people's logic against timing. You could simplify anything as just "pressing a button"....we are holding a controller here, thats what most of are actions are going to amount to, whether it be a button or a combination of them.

As far as greens being 100% makes, I don't know. Changing that may be the only way to solve things with where we have landed as far as the inflation of badges, stacking, movement etc. Like BQ said, we have entirely too many ways to circumvent being a bad shooter. I also understand where people are coming from competitively. My hope is that all of it is completely redone for next gen.

By the END of 2K16's life cycle (It definitely fluctuated) people weren't necessarily just routinely missing 'green' releases. That's why people were still posting them as "glitches" when they did happen, it would happen moreso certain spaces on the court. I say all that to say 1) They were harder to get in general 2) There weren't bunch of stacked badges to worry about empowering bad shooters 3) the movement, and contesting made it so zig zag, pull for green was at its least viable.

So I could see a system where it exists and both sides are happy.

[ImInThis]

Quote: Originally Posted by jk31

NO! Just no! There should be NOTHING in this game at all that has Either a 100% Chance of going in or a 0% Chance of going in. if There is sth that goes in 100% of time, then ratings dont matter anymore. i should not have to worry about a guy like rudy Gobert hitting jump shots just because someone can press a Button the correct time (or has programmed a trigger that does the same). that just doesnt make sense! the heavy Focus on shot Timing just completely destroys this game.

Whatever requires more skill I'm down for.

[HoustonHarden]

Quote: Originally Posted by ImInThis

Green releases should always go in, I don't want some random number deciding if my shot goes in. Unless what you all are saying is a certain percentage threshold is what decides what goes in? If we got the percentage route, I guess that would make sense, with badges adding boost. So a 70 3pt shot should be something like 35% but HOF badges can boost it to 45%. And a 90 3pt shot has a 50% chance with HOF badges boosting to 60%. However, even those numbers are too high, Curry makes something like 44%, so how will we decide realistic 3pt percentage? I honestly like this route as it's more realistic and actually makes sense than some random arithmetic and l 2k also needs to buff defense for guards. If your 3 point rating is under 85 you shouldn't be shooting in people's face unless your Takeover is activated. Most builds have something like 76 perimeter defense and that's just not enough.

Those "random numbers" are the ratings you work for and they should ALWAYS MATTER along with shot release. YOu most likely are new to the series go back to older 2k games where ratings, shot selection and release were all factored in without badges that give arcade boost

[Cardinal Sin]

I am totally fine with green releases always going in, however the percentage of releases in the green window that are actually green should be more stringently capped based on ratings. E.g. if you have a 50 3, even if you release it perfectly every time you should at best green about 30% of your shots, whereas at 95 it could be 75-80% of something like that.

As you can tell from my suggestion that a 95 3 point rated shooter could hit 75-80% of their well-time releases, I don't want real shooting percentages for online game modes (I do think there is a place for these in sim modes though), as I don't think I would particularly enjoy having a high 3 point rating, be wide open, time my release well and still miss over 50% of my shots for the sake of realistic shooting percentages. The last thing this game needs in online modes is more Rng in my opinion. But, the general premise of this thread that lower rated shooters make 3 pointers with too much consistency is certainly correct, it really devalues the pure shooting builds (why make a build with a 90+ 3 pointer, when a 75-80 3 pointer is more than sufficient to hit consistently from the hash).

[JazzMan]

It's so ironic because if you play online, EVERYTHING is all about the three point shot. I mean, that's modern basketball; but nobody should be shooting 50+% from three every single game.

Then you go offline, and play MyLEAGUE... play the AI, and the entire AI team takes a total of 15 threes in a 12-minute quarter game. TOTAL. It's like 2k has the AI to be programmed to play like it's 2001 basketball and not 2020 basketball. It's more common to have the AI score more than 70% of their points coming from the paint than it is to see the AI attempt more than 25 threes.

The team that shot the FEWEST threes a game this year was Indiana with 28 3PAs a game... Only three teams shot fewer than 30 3PAs a game. In 2k20, I consider it a success if I can get the AI to shoot more than 25 threes against me in a full game, and that's with me sagging off of shooters, having them stand there WIDE OPEN for 5 seconds before they finally pull the trigger. I think a big problem of it is that the AI is scared to shoot anything that isn't hugging the three-point line; nowadays in the NBA guys are pulling from further and further back from behind the line, yet in 2k20 you don't see Steph, Dame, Trae, anybody shoot those "limitless" threes, they just stand there and let the off-ball guys run around while dribbling out the shot clock.

This is supposed to be a simulation of the NBA, right? Then 2k needs to make it a simulation again.

Rant aside, yeah, the ProAm/Park modes definitely need an overhaul for shooting, and this is coming from a guy that has been running sharpshooting builds ever since 2k15. Make having a shooter actually mean something. Just because someone has an open three doesn't mean it should go in 80+% of the time, man. You can't even convert in the paint anywhere near that percentage; it's literally a disadvantage if you do anything but shoot threes all game