NFL 2K21 Ros/Fran - based on M21 Ratings

[packers]

I understand the OP ratings with these rosters. But, I haven't messaged anything from the Madden 21 ratings dataset. (It takes me approx. 1-2.5hrs to parse, reduce teams to 53 players and convert using macros and other automation.) It could very well be the conversion or 2K5 algorithm factor you mentioned.

Continuing to see and hear how borked EA's updates to M21 have been and the amount of player rating changes that have been made since launch. I'm not surprised.. If you have another dataset and share it. I don't mind converting it, to compare. Otherwise, the Madden 21 ratings I have are the only source I have to work with.

The game sliders/difficulty make a lot of difference with AI behavior also. I'm using custom sliders and I have not experienced what you mentioned.

I'm open to suggestions.

One of my test games - https://youtu.be/QrCn0AOWj4s

[omegao]

Again, the work is excellent. My gut feeling is you got some really really ****ty tools (the madden data)

Had a few more 1/3 to 1/2 games (its too rough to play to end)

I am convinced the OVR is inflated b/c of 2k5 weighting different stats lighter/heavier in the OVR. So SO many players are being graded (ovr) on a heavy curve, you should almost ignore it or you'll way overinvest in guys who won't live up to contract.

The DB/LB SuperJumps, either crazy high (dbs) or insanely against momentum (dbs) aren't as frequent as my first matches but they happen and break all sense of disbelief.

I think Madden (and thus its ratings) is just a homogenous product. The range for players #1-#53rd is about 20 points.
Having not played Madden for much deeper than an hour or so years ago, I'm guessing the "playmakers", "stars", or some other sales gimmick slapped on boxes for sales is where they might differentiate good from great players.

I trust your work and datasheet is = to Madden which means Madden's rating are an utter mess. I am truly sorry for you having to work with that junk.

Even just players is suspect. My team is missing their 2 time ProBowl KR, has weird LBs, completely wrecked depth charts, and locked in a bunch of fluid OLmen as one trick ponies.

I know there needs to be a formula to apply to madden's inflation but I wouldn't know where to start and I don't trust myself to stay impartial. (I completely lost my mind when pre-season Josh Allen was rated 63 speed with a pile of slowpokes starting in the low 70s) I worry there is too much wonky in the data to overcome it without a metric ton of work or a pile of practical knowledge I don't have/know about and would need someone to volunteer.

Again, you built an incredible house on the suspect parcel of land you were given.

I hope some others offer up ideas or even counter gameplay experiences b/c I really want to be wrong in this instance.

[packers]

Quote: Originally Posted by omegao

Again, the work is excellent. My gut feeling is you got some really really ****ty tools (the madden data) Had a few more 1/3 to 1/2 games (its too rough to play to end) I am convinced the OVR is inflated b/c of 2k5 weighting different stats lighter/heavier in the OVR. So SO many players are being graded (ovr) on a heavy curve, you should almost ignore it or you'll way overinvest in guys who won't live up to contract. The DB/LB SuperJumps, either crazy high (dbs) or insanely against momentum (dbs) aren't as frequent as my first matches but they happen and break all sense of disbelief. I think Madden (and thus its ratings) is just a homogenous product. The range for players #1-#53rd is about 20 points. Having not played Madden for much deeper than an hour or so years ago, I'm guessing the "playmakers", "stars", or some other sales gimmick slapped on boxes for sales is where they might differentiate good from great players. I trust your work and datasheet is = to Madden which means Madden's rating are an utter mess. I am truly sorry for you having to work with that junk. Even just players is suspect. My team is missing their 2 time ProBowl KR, has weird LBs, completely wrecked depth charts, and locked in a bunch of fluid OLmen as one trick ponies. I know there needs to be a formula to apply to madden's inflation but I wouldn't know where to start and I don't trust myself to stay impartial. (I completely lost my mind when pre-season Josh Allen was rated 63 speed with a pile of slowpokes starting in the low 70s) I worry there is too much wonky in the data to overcome it without a metric ton of work or a pile of practical knowledge I don't have/know about and would need someone to volunteer. Again, you built an incredible house on the suspect parcel of land you were given. I hope some others offer up ideas or even counter gameplay experiences b/c I really want to be wrong in this instance.

I lost my FB with the week 4 dataset dump/update. I was in disbelief at first then confirmed GB no longer has a FB listed on NFL.com’s depth chart. 🤷*♂️

I like the launch ratings dataset better and may update that dataset with the few new moves (L. Bell to KC) etc..

I like most would rather pay T2 for an updated roster and franchise for NFL 2K5 every year than give more money to EA. I know this will never happen, but maybe with T2 getting back into the NFL Football development. I can only hope the community is offered something better.

For now, we do our best with what we can get our hands on and have time to invest. Having learned the process and tool sets better. I believe we would see a better offering if the handful of people working on rosters would team up and break up the work instead of individual efforts.

Thanks for the feedback


Sent from my iPhone using Operation Sports

[omegao]

I think you hit the nail on the head.
It's important to do the work as both a stop-gap measure to keep a legit football VG in our lives and as inspiration to others to take up the tools/work. (I was inspired by your post to learn the tools to "massage" the Madden rosters into something non-atrocious)
I may agree with you on earlier rosters being better. I fear its placebo b/c I've had far less run w/Week 4 than Week 1s but I don't remember being so disheartened in all my run before.

Late last night I hit my breaking point.

Jets 3rd string [run stopping] DT dropped into disguised coverage. (so around the deep MLB area midfield)

I lobbed nearly the biggest rainbow you can over the middle and he super LB jumped both insanely high and diagonally to perfectly pick it off and then perfectly outran my guys 40+ yards on his return.

I've never pulled off a pick and return 1/2 as impressive with Micah Freakin Hyde.

I really do think Madden ratings are artificially high to keep people psychologically happy. Then the "boosts" or whatever they are marketing called currently, add hidden talent boosts to many of the position critical ratings.

So a superstar DB rates out at a 90 (+10 to +15 very average guys) and gets a "hidden boost" of about 20 or so across their critical categories (awareness, speed, hands, etc)

I couldn't believe this years insane low ratings for Madden weren't punitive (haters) but mostly legit.

The swiss cheese rosters and severely suspect skill ratings make me think the lows are more legit than the highs.

[tinpanalley]

Quote: Originally Posted by packers

Regarding the team acronyms in the scoreboard. Yes, these can be changed. But, in testing it freezes/breaks the game. Curiosity got the best of me and I had to try it, but I will not spend anymore time on it. (Clip attached)

That's so strange... So, it allows the changing of the full name but not the abbreviations. Must be linked to making another change somewhere and that without that change it crashes. I'll try asking in the main forum.


On the subject of Madden ratings, etc. I'm not knocking the work or anything. I happen to think this is one of the best rosters. I'm just curious what the logic is in thinking the ratings for a game released today for a completely different software could respond well when transferred to a completely different software designed 16 years ago with different AI? How are Madden ratings being applied exactly because surely a 1:1 copy wouldn't work.

[KeViNxAnThOnY]

So happy to see you bringing your talents from the NCAA subforum to this one. Helping keeping 2 critical football games alive. Thank you and Bad_AL.

[tinpanalley]

Quote: Originally Posted by omegao

I've only had a couple of games so far but it's playing amped/arcade-y just like Madden. (super jumping LBs, CBs making long jump length breakups from near impossible platforms... Again, the hard work is ultra appreciated, just trying to figure out the "why" as to most of the 2k5 feel evaporating when I use these rosters.

I gotta say, I've now played a handful of games and it's very noticeable. A little daylight and a receiver is gone. And the 2K5 feeling evaporating is exactly how I'd put it. I gotta say, though, somebody did a similar thing a few years ago, using Madden ratings, and that roster didn't quite work either. But, I can say from experience, if NFL2K is programmed anything like NHL2K, then different combinations of characteristics are used for the overall than on EA. It's their own algorithm which is why it's best to stick to a "2K" style grading system, but that of course means sitting and entering players one by one.

[packers]

Here is a raw M21 Week 6 dump for anyone interested in a current dataset.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1SuF...ew?usp=sharing

I don't like that I can't pull the free agents the same way as the current roster. If anyone has or is working on a current free agents list and has it in a similar format as the below example, we can update them.

(Example)
#Position,fname,lname,JerseyNumber,

Team = FreeAgents Players:230
QB,David,Fales,3,
QB,Mike,Glennon,2,