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OS Roundtable: Is Madden's Focus Where it Should Be?

With Madden being a more defensively focused game this year, it appears the developers are trying to fix one big part of what has made the game feel stale to many the past few years on the field. Will the additions on the defensive half of the ball lead to more fun or will Madden still feel stale in your non-hands on opinions?

Matthew Coe: No. All of the announced additions on defense have fallen flat for me. Part of that is the reality that in past Madden games, marketed features didn't work properly. Another part of that is that so many current features don't function properly (penalties, anyone?). In no way do I think that adding a defensive camera is a game changer. We had player lock in the NCAA Football series and the view here seems to be similar. The new disengage moves for defensive linemen seem likely to be overpowered out of the box and exploitable online. And while this may seem like a petty complaint, I'm worried that the moves will be too "gamey" and might result in individual player ratings mattering less in the trenches. The tackling cone amuses me to be honest, and seems to be a feature designed with new players in mind, which is fine, I'm just glad that I can turn the visual cone off. Finally, we don't really have any details about the new coverage improvements or specifics about Real AI 2.0. I'm a bit encouraged that they brought in real NFL players and coaches to help with these two features, but I wonder if any of that will translate to Madden's defensive gameplay.

Count me as a skeptic until we see real 11-on-11 gameplay of Madden NFL 15 in a single player vs CPU environment.

Jayson Young: No. The new defensive mechanics that were announced today may help the one defender who's being user-controlled, but what about the 10 other defenders on the field?

Will those computer-controlled defenders still give up huge gains by taking illogical pursuit angles? Will they continue to sit in their tiny zone circles, even when no offensive threats are near the area they are "covering"?

Will man coverage still be beaten by basic curl and out routes, regardless of the wide receiver/defensive back matchup? Will the secondary regularly outjump receivers and catch contested passes through traffic, creating an unrealistic amount of interceptions?

Will play-action passes still fool the entire AI defense, even on obvious throwing downs? Can you still have success running the same two to three money plays all game long, without the CPU defense making any adjustments?

Given the track record of developer EA Tiburon, it is hard to have any optimism that Madden NFL 15 will capture the strategy, atmosphere and emotions of pro football any better than past unimpressive editions -- a losing streak that started with the super-disappointing Madden NFL 11, and has continued, uninterrupted, all the way up to last August's mediocre Madden NFL 25.

Dustin Toms: No. To be honest, I'm not impressed at all. Like both Jayson and Matt have just said: back-of-the-box features from Tiburon mean nothing to gamers anymore. We're ready for more of the same from that standpoint. If all of the announced features are legit, then yeah you can count me as an excited kind of guy. But...

...That trailer looked awful. Sure the graphics are vastly improved, but it looks like it's still being built off of the same game from last year. Watch the player movements and you'll see they still have the stiff robot look and feel to them. When Richard Sherman is doing his typical "crowd-pumping" move, his arms look like it's nothing but a motion - not lifelike at all. Last year was fine to build off of 360/PS3 build, but we're in the new generation now. Make us a whole new ball game.

Chris Sanner: Someone has to be the voice of dissension and I guess that is going to be me. Madden has been a boring experience on the defensive side of the ball for years now, so anything done to give gamers more of a choice and more control when trying to rush the QB are good things. That plus the toning down of QB accuracy and the improvements to DB/WR interactions all sound like they will add to the experience.

Listen folks, Madden is what Madden is. The game will not radically change from year to year just like every other sports game in our genre, this has very little to do with competition and more to do with the simple fact a one year development cycle is going to lead to incremental improvements year after year. At this point, you either like the brand of football EA is putting out there or you don't -- but you can't expect Madden to be something it simply isn't. At this point, I'm convinced that Madden will never satisfy a portion of football fans no matter what it does, but for the rest of us the improvements on the defensive side of the ball are much needed and could make defense a little more fun this year.


Madden NFL 15 Videos
Member Comments
# 21 Hoops737 @ 06/10/14 11:53 PM
All I want is tackling physics and signature animations (ball carriers/QB)

Instead I get the defensive vision cone and 3D grass >__<
 
# 22 vannwolfhawk @ 06/11/14 02:59 AM
I had bought every madden until the last 2 years. This is the 1st time in a few years where I excited about what I am hearing. I'm old school in wanting a defensive type of game. I do think this team gets it and is going in the right direction. 5 things that drove me crazy the last few years in the demos I played was that there was still stale defensive line play, every kicker made 55 yd fg, no shed blocking, qb accuracy and no differential between elite qbs and backups, and curl and out routes being over powered. I like the fact that they are listening to the community and it's legacy issues. I also liked what I heard last year with the offensive line play but I knew that would be way overpowered without hearing anything about the defense.

What I'd like to see this team do instead of doing 1 side of the ball 1 year to the next like they did with offense last year and defense this year is to work on both simultaneously. For example, they should have focused on the trenches both offensively and defensively in the same cycle to balance the two out. That would have eliminated so many issues last year alone. You can't over power one side of the ball without giving the other side counters to stop it. It should be a game of chess and everything should have a counter. 4-5 yard dive plays every run, over powered strong power runs to the outside, etc. I'd like to see the same with cb/wr interactions when they finally address it. I am glad they put band aid on it rather than completely neglecting it all together.

I just don't understand how 2k who has less than half the development team madden has finds a way to put in 3-4x the features in the same cycle that madden has? I think that's where the frustration lies. Other games blow us away with numerous new features that the community asks for while madden does not. You see devs for FIFA, 2k, the show, EA MMA all on these forums while I never see any ea madden guys on here anymore. Correct me if I'm wrong but last I remember was Ian. I think I'm getting sidetracked but my point was that ea seems to not care about making a football simulation game the past few years. I think that is changing with this regime however. I like the direction and everything I'm hearing but it's just not enough year in and year out compared to what other games are doing.

It was nice to read that they actually added new defensive plays finally! This game needs so much and is so far behind that you can't blame us for being impatient. Maddens a game I could pick up tomorrow after 2 years off and go on all madden and light the CPU up for 400 yards and score 35-50 points playing sim football. Same routes beat this play or that one.

One thing I'd like to see the devs fix is the sliders to make them work properly. This alone can alleviate and fix what they can't get around to in a dev cycle. This allows us to fix the game to our liking. Bumping man coverage to 100 should have eliminated curl route issues. Block shedding at 75 should mean ray Lewis doesn't get swallowed up by any and every lineman so I didn't have to run a half circle around them, etc...

Anyways, I like the direction and vision of this new team. I like Clint and his willingness to be candid and listen and be outlet for the community. I personally shared the above issues I had with the game with Clint last year and it appears to have been addressed whether he pitched ideas or not it's nice that we have someone listening and open to suggestions. Who knows what the suits say behind closed doors and that's got to be frustrating as a developer to be handcuffed. In the future I really hope they address ratings and rosters aka dan/fbg to differentiate players from one another like you see in 2k basketball. I look forward to seeing this game at the end of their 3 year cycle THIS regime! I think they get it. Will it be enough without rebuilding from the ground up is another question!
 
# 23 BezO @ 06/12/14 05:46 PM
NO!

They game won't be right until it animates realistically.

How can you improve coverage without addressing WR/DB interaction, for example? How can you defend the run without steering for ALL d-linemen? Without gap/contain assignments? For them to have focused on defense, they left a lot out.

And basic things like footwork. I'm not seeing True Step. I've seen several ball carriers swerving up & down the field. How can the spacing & timing of the game be right if the players don't move about realistically?

But hey, it's early. They held onto improvements and turned off features in early vids last year. Hopefully there's a lot more coming. Until then, no!
 
# 24 moylan1234 @ 06/12/14 07:23 PM
Given that I haven't seen any actual football in the videos thus far I'm going with no
 
# 25 theman021 @ 06/15/14 08:43 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Cre8
I still believe (as I did in November) that they should have delayed a Madden release on next-gen until this year. NCAA did this with 07 on 360 and it was a smart decision. Madden would have been better served to do it with 06 - I don't think anyone would argue with me on that point.

That being said this was the most complete first release on a new system Madden ever. Which isn't saying much.
 
# 26 theman021 @ 06/15/14 08:47 PM
How about they get simple things right. It doesn't snow that much at game time every week. You can have piles of snow on the sideline and it be cold. It does not have to snow every game because it doesn't come close in real life.

The other thing that makes no sense it 1pm west coast games have 4:30pm east coast shadows and shade on the field. That also makes no sense.
 
# 27 theman021 @ 06/15/14 09:17 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by MossMan84
Im still not sure why we didnt have a madden 14? Madden 25? The game should be somewhat better than last years but how can it not be. The list of improvements sounds pretty nice but how can we have icing without cake? Im still afraid that there will be glaring holes in gameplay along with a broken franchise mode. I could care less about graphics, (to a point) presentation, mut, ect. Just give me a all around good gameplay with adaptive ai and a franchise mode that I can immerse myself in forever! "Focus Daniel Son!" Madden is simply getting sucked into another cycle of poor overall games. It sounds like they have good intentions but the overall vision is not there.

EA's only intention with Madden is to sell games. They ****ed up their NBA live money trying to make it play like NBA 2k. They aren't about to do anything drastic such as make a complete game to **** up the next year's Madden money.
 
# 28 roll2tide @ 06/16/14 11:24 AM
Do I like the defensive focus? Yes. Do think that:

-Most or all new additions will either not work properly or work way to well? Absolutely.

-The Colts might still use a #3 draft pick on a QB in year 1 and cut Andrew Luck in year 3? Yes.

-Schemes still won't work properly? Yes

-I can still run the same play over & over & over and the CPU be none the wiser? Yes.

-The XP system will still be jacked up? yes.

Will I buy it anyways? Yes. EA and exclusivity win.
 
# 29 Ueauvan @ 06/16/14 11:33 AM
i play coach mode, i try and get sliders etc that make things reasonable. qb acc for both teams is at 5, wr catching 25 yet 12-15 qbs every year hit 4k+ yards and over 70 acc. part of this is the classic defender stands there as russell wilson advance past the line of scrimmage and runs past (my favourite was him doing this past willis and bowman) or a 93 ovr db (95 prc and 90 awr) who moves out of the way of wilson to enable him to do this. we have all seen cover 2/3/4 dbs let someone go past them regularly.

offence sells madden, and yet i love defence
 
# 30 BezO @ 06/16/14 12:42 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roll2tide
...

Will I buy it anyways? Yes. EA and exclusivity win.
Don't blame EA for this one.
 
# 31 Jerros @ 06/19/14 04:59 PM
If you want a better product then don't buy the game. EA gets a pass every year because they know they are the only game in town and the incremental changes are not an accident. It's the illusion they use to make people believe they are giving you some brand new game with awesome changes when really they are feeding us cherry picked features from other older games. This year it's their old Madden 05 theme of Defense. The Ravens were SB champs back then if you recall and they had the same exact theme as this year's Madden. The defensive cam from Backbreaker, the power circle from 2k, just this time it's used for defense. These things are not innovative nor are they new. So in truth, you're still not getting a true next gen title. And until they rebuild Madden from the ground up we will get the same robotic animations we've been getting for years. Here's something you guys should check out. A very interesting video about a very interesting article.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mNLSfjYZbT8

If you get a chance, watch some of his other vids as well. Very informative as to the problems with the game that any Sim guy will appreciate. And anyone else who may want to learn more about the sport we love.
 
# 32 Blue12 @ 06/19/14 06:08 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by roll2tide

-The Colts might still use a #3 draft pick on a QB in year 1 and cut Andrew Luck in year 3? Yes.
To make it more realistic, they should have the Colts giving their pick to the Browns for a suspended Josh Gordon
 
# 33 Kaiser Wilhelm @ 06/19/14 11:23 PM
Yes and no. They are making improvements beyond the superfluous. The problem still exists though, the very foundation of the game is broken. The very engine the game is built on is fundamentally incapable of replicating football. This game still seems to be running on that horrible animation engine from 2006 when the 360/Ps3 came out. The foundation was broken then even when compared to previous iterations of Madden, and its previous competitors. 8 years later and it really doesn't seems we have moved beyond that base. The game needs to be rebuilt from the ground up, down to the very first line of code.

If you have a decrepit house, and decide to fix it up by by repainting it, giving it new appliances, and placing some editions onto it, all the while ignoring the crumbling foundation, are you moving that house in the right direction?
 
# 34 JHamilton9 @ 06/19/14 11:59 PM
I bought every edition of Madden since it first came out on PS2. Last year was the first year didn't buy a new copy within a week of it's release. I waited and bought a used copy for PS3. I didn't even buy M25 for PS4.

As Jerros mentioned earlier, EA is using the same gimmick and sales pitch as they did for M05. As soon as I heard that, I decided I was done purchasing the game. I've been fooled the last 5 or 6 times by their slick sales pitches and hollow promises.

I understand why EA won't give an absolutely complete game: why would I have to buy another game if I just bought the perfect one? I just don't understand why I came away more and more disappointed each year.
 
# 35 strawberryshortcake @ 06/20/14 12:28 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by JHamilton9
I bought every edition of Madden since it first came out on PS2. Last year was the first year didn't buy a new copy within a week of it's release. I waited and bought a used copy for PS3. I didn't even buy M25 for PS4.

As Jerros mentioned earlier, EA is using the same gimmick and sales pitch as they did for M05. As soon as I heard that, I decided I was done purchasing the game. I've been fooled the last 5 or 6 times by their slick sales pitches and hollow promises.

I understand why EA won't give an absolutely complete game: why would I have to buy another game if I just bought the perfect one? I just don't understand why I came away more and more disappointed each year.

Perfect in what sense, the entire package or just the gameplay? There's always something to add to a stellar product.

There is a percentage of gamer that simply wants the shiniest and newest with the most updated roster; the addition of a real immersive pregame, halftime, and post game show; how about real breakdown of key plays during the halftime and post game shows; maybe there is a subset that simply buys it for the new cover athlete; create a ficticious college football mode that meshes with the NFL portion since the NCAA no longer has a football game; how about a limited amount of autograph cards of whatever athlete randomized for both XB1 and PS4 units; how about past legends, etc. you name it.

Whatever that "perfect" game may be developed, there's always stuff you can add and market to bait and hook gamers
 
# 36 Jerros @ 06/20/14 10:23 AM
There should honestly be a laugh track whenever someone defends Madden and says they are gradually improving. The lies they told at E3 were just ridiculous. I have a video you guys need to see. But before you watch it, just keep in mind what the guy at E3 said in the beginning of his Madden presentation. Remember the words ALL NEW INNOVATIONS. Just let that resonate in your mind then watch this video. The lies and the hilarity of it all is just classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxQEIcw5Sg
 
# 37 jpdavis82 @ 06/21/14 01:30 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by sticks323
Non of the announcements or CG trailers matter until we see someone on the sticks playing.
Those videos are out there. I hooked my phone up to my tv and was pretty impressed with the player models, player movement, running animations, everything just looks better, every detail looks better in every way. The game isn't where we want it yet but I think 40% of OS users will be blown away when they see the game in person. I think 80% of causal madden fans will be, because graphics impress casuals and the game looks truly next gen now. Rex said last year that it would be another year or two before they get it truly turned around and at the same time said he didn't feel like they nailed anything with M25. I feel like this team is honest and open with us and they are doing their part to deliver the product we all want. In the end we have to judge them on the execution of the final product. If the game continues to improve and add the little things then if you liked M25, you'll like each Madden more from here on. If you didn't like 25 maybe 15 will do it. If not then 16 and if not 16 it's time to close up shop for good. I know I said this about 15 but I'm giving them one extra year with 25 being a port. Everyone on here can bookmark and hold me to this, I will eat my words proudly but Madden 16 is the 3rd year of the 3 year plan so after that there's NO excuse I can accept or consider.
 
# 38 jpdavis82 @ 06/22/14 09:21 AM
Lets go back to where the old team was on their second title of a new console and compare it with the second next gen title in alpha version of the team today.


http://youtu.be/9Xq3n8bz6N4

Vs

http://youtu.be/9D2GK_z3Az0

Which looks more like sim football to you? Look past the graphics and look at the football fundamentals, player movement, ai, etc...
 
# 39 jpdavis82 @ 06/22/14 12:48 PM
In this article Ian talks about the illusion of cutting left and right to hit the hole. While he did have some good ideas and wanted sim aspects, I don't think he had the same focus and desire to deliver sim that Cam and Rex do. I don't plan on hearing them talk about giving an illusion of anything when it comes to sim football.

http://www.operationsports.com/featu...ngs-interview/
 
# 40 StormsWarning @ 06/22/14 03:21 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Jerros
There should honestly be a laugh track whenever someone defends Madden and says they are gradually improving. The lies they told at E3 were just ridiculous. I have a video you guys need to see. But before you watch it, just keep in mind what the guy at E3 said in the beginning of his Madden presentation. Remember the words ALL NEW INNOVATIONS. Just let that resonate in your mind then watch this video. The lies and the hilarity of it all is just classic.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=XUxQEIcw5Sg

This video right here has given me some things to really think about with this company & this football game. even looking at the videos Im starting to see some things I didn't like in this version, that was in 25 as well, at any rate we'll get to see what goes on when the game is released, and i guess at that point, we'll see where all this goes, but when I see several sources of video with actual evidence proving ea and the developers are up to that same ol, same ol, then yeah, its time to reevaluate my own spending in whether or not i want to support the company & there brand of a football game.

This is why there have been alot of games being delayed for the newer consoles, they know there games are undeveloped & they would rather delay there product until one is ready that they feel is good enough to be released to the public, they also don't wanna be known for disgracing the industry by being money hungry aka ( greed ) and that truly is what ea has done.

The 2k battle and ea battle that's natural business competition, but when I look at these past e3 madden events, the calling out by Rex incident & the fact that madden being out since 1988 - ( madden 25 ) - 2015 I have to question things seriously, no matter how much I would like to have a new'er polished looking game, at the end of the day I just want a great virtual world of football & fundamentals. And if that means going back to playing some older titles then so be it, but I refuse anymore to close my eyes to some of the, yeah were getting there, and give them time routine. Madden should be the # 1 game right now truthfully, in every aspect. I guess THE REAL QUESTION WE NEED TO ASK OUR SELF'S WHY AR'NT THEY? LOOK AT THAT HISTORY TIME LINE?

Do you really feel in 27 YEARS! This company is evolved to where you want YOUR virtual world experience to be? you have to make that choice, this is very serious situation going on, I don't expect the younger kids to follow this, I really don't, especially in this generation we live, but to those that came up in that original old school era I do expect alot more, and that's what makes me wonder, because Rex & his team is from that old school era and I know they know football, which is why I'm wondering is it really them or the Suits! at any rate as I said we will see soon enough.

1988 - ( madden 25 ) - 2015

Evolved to where they should be or No ? 27 years!
 


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