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Madden NFL 13: Demo Impressions Roundtable

Jayson Young: Like NCAA Football 13, the Madden NFL 13 demo is plagued with longstanding issues such as outdated line play, questionable AI decisions, unrealistic player movement, suction blocking, etc. Above all, it's these legacy issues that make the Madden NFL 13 demo feel stale and unexciting.

That said, the Infinity Engine does feature some legitimately cool additions like incidental player collisions. I love how players can now get tripped up and go into a stumble animation if they don't watch where they're running.

Unfortunately, for every collision that looks great, there are others that play out like a slapstick comedy routine from The Three Stooges. Barely touching the back of an offensive lineman can cause the ball-carrier to spin off five yards in the opposite direction. Some of the new tackling animations are so over-the-top and high-flying they look like they belong on Monday Night Raw, not Monday Night Football. The post-whistle pileups the Infinity Engine creates are equally ugly, featuring lots of body clipping and limb twitching, which shouldn't be acceptable in 2012. Even the reworked tackling sound effects are overdone, sounding more like a canon shot than two human bodies colliding.

Presentation-wise, Phil Simms' and Jim Nantz's announcing is tolerable, though a bit long-winded. However, many of the same announcing errors from Madden NFL 12 are still in Madden NFL 13. For example, my defense surrendered a first down while playing a Tampa 2 zone, then Phil Simms delivered a diatribe on how stupid I was for playing man-to-man coverage. Cris Collinsworth had the same problem distinguishing between man and zone coverages when he was commentating in Madden NFL 12. On another play, I was able to overcome the terrible blocking AI en route to an 18-yard gain up the sideline, only to be scolded by Phil Simms for not following my (nonexistent) running lanes.

In short, there is nothing in this free demo that has me excited to keep playing it, let alone pay $60 for the full game when it arrives in stores. For every good change the Madden NFL 13 team has made, there are a dozen other generation-long issues or newly introduced quirks that ultimately sack Madden NFL 13's fun factor in the backfield for a loss.


This is still Madden, which means a lot of the same old quirky issues are alive and well.

Chris Sanner:  As the reviewer for NCAA Football 13, I was pretty rough on EA football as a whole. Legacy issues mar both franchises, and at the very least, it appeared Madden NFL 13 was on the path towards really fixing a lot of what ailed the series. I don't think I had unrealistic expectations coming into my time with the Madden NFL 13 demo, I truly felt the game would feel a step up from NCAA Football 13 at the very least with the new physics engine.

With that in mind, I truly think that we're seeing another Madden with quirky legacy issues that just won't go away, but that still plays a good game of classic Madden football -- the question you have to ask yourself is if you like that brand of football or not? The new collision system is better than the old one I think, but there are a few small quirks and problems with it that Jayson described above. Another thing many won't be able to look past is that this game, for all intents and purposes, is still Madden.

So expect the same old issues to crop up, the same feel, all of that. Madden NFL 13 is an evolutionary title, not a revolution.

Sticking to a similar formula means a lot of the same issues you are used to, with new ones from the infinity engine mixed in, will be present in this year's Madden. So basically, if you were expecting a game-changing year from the Madden franchise -- one where quality magically skipped ahead dramatically by a huge margin -- you are probably in for a major disappointment.

For the rest of us, I don't think Madden is going to be a bad or even average game -- I think it's a solid to good title from what I'm seeing to be sure. But I think reeling in expectations somewhat is a prudent thing to do if you were expecting a completely different game.  From what I've heard from guys who have played the full version, Madden is a good and solid title. From my own observations via the demo, Madden NFL 13 is that type of a game, which means Madden won't be winning game of the year awards this year. The demo's gameplay ensures us of that probability


The Infinity Engine has some cool moments to be sure, but also some first gen quirks.

Caley Roark: I mostly agree with Jayson; while the Infinity Engine enables some neat moments, this demo generally feels like the same old Madden.

I suppose, in some ways, that is a testament to the integration of a new physics engine. It could have been way overdone, both to emphasize the newness of the engine and to grab the user's attention. Instead, we get finely tuned (for the most part) implementation, with only the occasional oddities. I haven't seen some of the more flagrant issues Jayson has up to this point.

However, the animations leading up to and after tackles seems like things we've seen before. There are still too few penalties, and line play doesn't seem changed at all. I like some of the new presentation elements, but I wonder how long it will be until the new guys seem as repetitive as the old ones?

In all, color me underwhelmed. That doesn't mean I think this demo represents a bad game. I've had fun over the past few years with Madden, and I like what's been added. I am most excited for the Connected Careers mode; unfortunately that's not something I can judge from this demo.

It's just that, as a whole, the demo didn't blow me away.


Simms and Nantz aren't a huge step up from last year's broadcast team.

Keni Glover: I've been out of the Madden loop for the last two years so I guess I fall into the "casual" category when it comes to the Madden franchise. The thought bubble near my head when I play Madden demos year after year reads something like "Is this this the year that I will actually have a reason to spend $60 on this game?"

Well after playing the demo, I think I'll be sitting on the sidelines for yet another season.

From the outset, the presentation of the game is sharp. Introductions and overlays are clean and resemble a live TV broadcast. The virtual Jim Nantz and Phil Simms look good and add a nice little touch in that regard. Their commentary also seems well done and fluid. I do however wonder how repetitive the commentary will be in the retail game, as I already heard some repeated lines in the demo.

The animations were the first thing that struck me when play began. Players seemed to glide down the feild, as it appears that foot planting is very minimal if present at all. I also didn't notice any sense of momentum when changing directions. The highlight of the gameplay is the new infinity engine which allows for some nice looking tackles and collisions. The drawback however is the ragdoll-effect the system tends to allow for, often leaving player bodies contorted in very unnatural positions.

In general, the gameplay felt quite familiar to what one might expect from a Madden game. I resisted the urge to drop back 10 feet for a pass though I didn't feel particularly safe in the pocket. Once again, blocking in the pocket does not seem genuine and my offensive linemen played the matador in some cases. At times however, the line did provide me a few precious moments to allow my recievers to make a cut on their route. Run blocking has never appealed to me in Madden and it didn't seem too much better in my time with the demo. I never felt the ability to really follow a blocker through a hole up the middle was represented well in any Madden I've played, this one included.

Interceptions felt a little less cheap and it felt good to thread the needle with a perfectly placed Eli Manning bullet pass. Passing physics did feel slightly better however.

Overall the demo was fun in spots, but generally did not provide a compelling enough experience for me to want to spend much time with it. I don't see myself dropping coin on Madden this year, at least not based off of the demo.

 

What do you think? Is Madden a buy or no buy after playing the demo?


Member Comments
# 81 Dogslax41 @ 08/17/12 02:57 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFNiner
Personally I think the presentation is the best its been. I think the game play is the best its ever been....The fact they completely jacked up my offline franchise mode........Complete pass for me. Thanks for saving me $60 EA Sports....Until next year (maybe).
I would say take a look before you write it off. Not saying its going to be mind blowing because I haven't played retail. but if it has the depth of head coach you might be surprised at what you don't miss. would be a shame to walk away if you like the other two so much.
 
# 82 SFNiner @ 08/17/12 03:03 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogslax41
I would say take a look before you write it off. Not saying its going to be mind blowing because I haven't played retail. but if it has the depth of head coach you might be surprised at what you don't miss. would be a shame to walk away if you like the other two so much.
I just know Im not going to like it. Every year since, God I dont know when...Maybe Primetime Football '95? (When did we get to start creating players lol)....Ive created myself and put myself on the 49ers. Nothing stupid special like 99s all around. Usually i just copy the person Im taking the place of ratings and release them (thus this year it was going to be Ahmed Brooks). Now I cant do that. It just seems like one feature that *should* be in any sports game. The ability to give you an "NFL career" without having to be steroided up LOL.
 
# 83 Dogslax41 @ 08/17/12 03:06 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
As far as I know, no but the point is if EA could use the NFL Network like that in one of their NFL video games, I don't see why the couldn't with the other IF they wanted to. I think all this competing network stuff is bs and they just wanted to do it with their own branding instead of the NFL Network. SMMFH
That could very well be the case if their contract stipulates that they would owe the NFL network additional royalties if they used the brand. That would make them cheap and stupid for nor being willing to ponyup for an already established brand...not like that would be completely counter to some of the decisions recently made by EA's executives.
 
# 84 ODogg @ 08/17/12 03:09 AM
I finally got a chance to play a couple of games of Madden 13 demo and wow, this is the best Madden to date, I may actually play this one nearly as much as I do NCAA 13 for a change!!!! The graphics and presentation are awesome and the lighting is incredible. The new physics is great too, although as has been said it results in some weird looking animations at times. But I love the stats overlays and commentary too. The commentary is so much better, it's finally something that's a PLUS for Madden instead of a huge minus as in years past IMO.

This is the first year since back on the Playstation days I think I'm REALLY excited about Madden. And to think I had just about decided to just give up on it and just play NCAA from here on out. Really glad I tried the demo and I can't wait to get the full game and play as my Cowboys!!
 
# 85 Dogslax41 @ 08/17/12 03:10 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by SFNiner
I just know Im not going to like it. Every year since, God I dont know when...Maybe Primetime Football '95? (When did we get to start creating players lol)....Ive created myself and put myself on the 49ers. Nothing stupid special like 99s all around. Usually i just copy the person Im taking the place of ratings and release them (thus this year it was going to be Ahmed Brooks). Now I cant do that. It just seems like one feature that *should* be in any sports game. The ability to give you an "NFL career" without having to be steroided up LOL.
Aww man you can't cut Brooksy. He was one that I hated to see the Bengals get rid of. I knew he was going to turn into a contributor. Not a pro bowler by any stretch but man I loved watching him thump. But I hear you on that. I just recently, couple years ago, stopped putting myself in my franchise or else I would probably be right there with you.
 
# 86 hurdinator @ 08/17/12 03:20 AM
The Camera view during the extra point is comic. Welcome back to the 90's!!!! It is such an arcade style look with lack of depth perspective or realism.Poor, very poor....
 
# 87 Dogslax41 @ 08/17/12 03:22 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
That seems a logical possibility but it doesn't account for where this notion that EA couldn't use NFL Network because ESPN would get mad or vice versa came from. If your hypothesis is correct than it seems like that's what EA should have made known instead letting that other claim stand that has been passed down all these years like a family heirloom, lol.
Either way coming out and explicitly pointing the finger at ESPN or the NFL Network as the bad guys or telling their fans, you know what, these other two have perfected this and fans love it but we think we know better than these professionals how to do a broadcast would have been pr suicide. It's much easier to stick your fingers in you ears and yell can't hear you when consumers complain about the lack of realistic broadcast.
 
# 88 Dogslax41 @ 08/17/12 03:24 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurdinator
The Camera view during the extra point is comic. Welcome back to the 90's!!!! It is such an arcade style look with lack of depth perspective or realism.Poor, very poor....
I'm hoping that the new zoom camera can be used throughout.
 
# 89 hurdinator @ 08/17/12 03:25 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dogslax41
I'm hoping that the new zoom camera can be used throughout.
Fingers crossed. Why include something that bad?
 
# 90 Dogslax41 @ 08/17/12 03:31 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hurdinator
Fingers crossed. Why include something that bad?
Could be something as simple as the fact that the animation of the kicker looks a little wonky with rtp and they wanted to hide it a bit to trying to artificially make it difficult to kick with an odd camera since kicking is so automatic again.
 
# 91 briax87 @ 08/17/12 03:56 AM
Some of the points you guys made regarding the commentators could be a bit better explained. Each year, it's the commentators who take the hit for poor in-game commentary, be it too dull, too excitable, or always saying the wrong thing. The audio team should be 100% responsible for the commentary, regardless of who is in the game commentating.

We've all seen how the commentary teams have changed in-game over the last 2/3 years, and each was as bad as the previous. This is all on the audio team. They should be able to build up a list of situational plays for the commentators to talk about. Everything from playoff scenarios to personal player info, history and stats, from amazing comebacks to shutouts. The commentators are being brought in to cover all the scenarios that are laid out in front of them by the audio team, it's just that they're not given enough situations/scenarios to cover.
 
# 92 belmarez @ 08/17/12 04:08 AM
Can't play my dynasty.
 
# 93 goduke30 @ 08/17/12 05:44 AM
Quote:
Originally Posted by Big FN Deal
As far as I know, no but the point is if EA could use the NFL Network like that in one of their NFL video games, I don't see why the couldn't with the other IF they wanted to. I think all this competing network stuff is bs and they just wanted to do it with their own branding instead of the NFL Network. SMMFH
I think I saw a connected careers picture of Adam Schefter posting a tweet on the connected careers so there could be some connection between all cbs,nfl network and espn . CBS= Presentation, NFL Network analysts. and the game being partnered by espn but either way I thought one thing was awesome. I felt like I had to fight at the goal line to get in the end zone on rush attempts cause they dont really use foward progress this year this is the first year in a while that EA both have solid football games now if they give ncaa 14 the new physics engine polished up they will take over sports gaming
 
# 94 shavane @ 08/17/12 07:24 AM
Its Madden it has a lot of quirky issues but it is sooo much better than previous Maddens. More importantly it is a much needed giant step in the right direction. I'm not sure if the people reveiwing it are even what we would consider Madden heads or if your like me a football junky who breaks every game down. With that being said it is almost as good as 2k football and better in some ways.

I've played every edition of Madden, 1st and 10 tecmo bowl, 2k, etc but this is easily the best game and its only still the demo.
 
# 95 Hooe @ 08/17/12 08:09 AM
I don't understand the "same old Madden" criticism levied by many in the article when viewed in the light of "it's a sports video game". What other sports video games series are consistently knocked with this criticism? Was NBA2K12 knocked for being very similar to NBA2K11? Has THQ and Yukes ever been knocked for basically releasing the same gameplay every year with the WWE (formerly Smackdown vs RAW) series? Has The Show ever been knocked for being simply an evolutionary step of its previous iteration? Did anyone criticize Forza Motorsport 4 for being fundamentally the same driving simulator as its predecessor?

My point is that it's a fair criticism to apply to all those games, but I don't hear it nearly as much for those as I do for EA football. Sports video games are by their nature evolutionary and not revolutionary; I don't understand why anyone would go into a sports game anymore expecting to have their socks knocked off by something that plays completely differently than the year before it. That's not how these games are built, and everyone who is discerning enough about sports games to join a sports video game message board - let alone be a credited producer of content for one - should know that.

Heck, it goes beyond sports video games to video games in general. Was anyone knocking Modern Warfare 3 for having the exact same controls and exact same gameplay as Modern Warfare 2? Did anyone ever knock the Rock Band games for having the same rhythm-matching gameplay as each of their predecessors?

In my opinion, the impressions offered in the article should have been much better phrased and much more detailed. We all know we are getting a Madden football game. There are certain implications that come with that that everyone knows. Tell us what the new issues are, tell us what legacy issues have and haven't been addressed, tell us what the game actually does well and doesn't do well. To stand behind the opinion of "it's Madden; you like it or you don't" - peppering that opinion with high-level statements such as "legacy issues" without offering any specifics as to what they are, what was attempted by the team to address them, how those changes have affected gameplay, etc. - isn't exactly being bold; that's not an interesting opinion in the context of a sports video game special interest web page, everyone who views this site already knows that much. The closest we got to that in this article were the opinions offered by Jayson Young and Kenny Glover, and I don't feel like they necessarily offered balanced opinions.

To be specific, I find it disappointing that no one got into some of the specifics in the Madden demo that legitimately help the series - the new passing mechanics from NCAA (having been better tuned), the excellent crowd audio, how fluid the game is, the general responsiveness of the controls (particularly compared to NCAA Football 13 retail), any mention of the new Kinect preplay controls whatsoever, and so on. From a journalistic standpoint, I don't see how you can talk about the Madden NFL 13 demo without so much as mentioning any of these things.

For a website "dedicated to sports gaming", this impressions article simply could and should have been much better.
 
# 96 Armor and Sword @ 08/17/12 08:38 AM
To the above poster. I understand where your coming from in regards to an editorial point of view. But these "legacy" issues have been talked about ad nausem over the last decade.

99% of us know what these legacy issues are.

IMO the staff here just said what I would say 70% of the impressions thread voiced. I think the consensus opinion is:


1) Play by play - highly improved and a true breath of fresh air, well executed in comparison to previous Maddens

2) Infinity Engine - A nice step in the right direction. On the demo it is clumsy though post play as well as triggering awkward moments with touch tackles, and yoga like movements from players (for lack of a better term), however with some fine tuning for retail it has a lot of potential to be really good.

3) Total Control Passing - is great, and the passing game is far better than years past. All the new trajectories make passing the ball far more intuitive.

4) Defense - Still the same, no real impactful changes. Suction blocking on the OL/DL is ver prevalent. The lack of true control on defense is apparent when trying to play as a DE/DT "Legacy Issue"

5) Penalty System - still the same lack of robust variety. I did have Defensive PI called on myself twice...so I have some hope the new IE will trigger some PI penalties. But the sheer lack of variety is very "un" sim like and still a "Legacy Issue"

6) Player weight/Momentum/Foot Planting - non existent. "Legacy Issue"

7) Signature motions/movements - this area of the game is where Madden has a huge area of opportunity and would go a long way in immersing the player into a virtual NFL world. This needs to be worked on. Games like NBA 2K and The Show nail this.


Madden is fun. Always has been for me. I really like Madden football, so long time fans will probably like Madden 13. But it is not revolutionary like the staff said, but evolutionary.

I think everyone is waiting for Madden to break out and feel like a totally new experience. And that is what happens when you only have one NFL game. Simple fact.

So you either are a "Madden" person or not. And this has been the back and forth for over 7 years now.

If this were the same franchise mode as last year......I would be passing. But since they are taking a shot at being "revolutionary" on the mode side of things....Madden is a purchase for me this year. CCM has a chance to be a very good, deep franchise experience. This is where this game has a shot to be great.
 
# 97 supermanemblem @ 08/17/12 09:22 AM
The original Madden on Sega Genesis would be unplayable for 99% of y'all. We had three buttons to work with and we still had super LBs/DBs and nano blitzes, etc. No sports game is going to be perfect nor will it represent the sport with pinpoint accuracy. Ever. Ain't going to happen.
 
# 98 GisherJohn24 @ 08/17/12 10:27 AM
I'm gonna disagree also. I love the new feel. Feels like a new engine, and I think it's the best playing Madden yet. Not perfect, but for being an annual franchise, impressed on this end. Day 1 purchase for me.
 
# 99 GisherJohn24 @ 08/17/12 10:30 AM
Also..if there was only one thing I didn't like about it, was that they dind't use ESPN presentation. And I hope and pray that they brought back the NFL Films music from 10 and 11.
 
# 100 rangerrick012 @ 08/17/12 10:54 AM
RE: Presentation, and lack of network branding - you don't need network branding to have great/TV style presentation. NBA 2K doesn't have a network brand but it still delivers a great presentation package. So although I get why some believe that slapping an ESPN or CBS logo would make things more immersive, I'm not entirely sure that would fix every problem that people still seem to have w/ the presentation side of things.

You're focusing your attention on the wrong thing if you think network logo automatically = great presentation & a great game. Most recent example I can think of that is Grand Slam Tennis 2, which had ESPN presentation but still felt subpar on many levels.

If you look at the NBA 2K team they say they worked with guys from TNT to get as close as they could to an accurate TV presentation. I think EA could do that but not put the 'CBS' or 'ESPN' logo up there, it would still be a huge step. Granted like I said the presentation has already taken a huge step from years past, and I do think this years' is an attempt to replicate a 'CBS' broadcast w/o the logo.
 


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