NBA 2K15 News Post

NBA 2K15 Gameplay Video - Miami Heat vs. New York Knicks (IpodKingCarter)

05:35 PM - September 13, 2014 by Steve_OS

Check out the latest NBA 2K15 gameplay video from IpodKingCarter, featuring the Miami Heat vs. New York Knicks.

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# 181 svit @ 09/15/14 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	Thanks for your comments. Fist let me say yes the AI will not look fantastic on every possession. Just an FYI the AI was evaluating about 3 different options that all could have separate branches within the triangle. While waiting there It decided to bypass them and you can see Melo then come off a back-screen for the post up. Then he decided to attempt a score instead of going to Melo. For movement through the lane I didn't like it last year when bigs were sprinting to go short distances It looked unnatural especially with all the bumping etc. So we made sure to have the bigs use more controlled movements. I will be eagerly watching for feedback from those who play in depth to see if that turns out to be a benefit or if we should speed them up. So the AI wasn't stuck he was just evaluating options. Maybe we need to speed that up.. We will see. I know it looks familiar to last year when he wasn't really processing anything The difference is last year he really only had one option and was waiting for it or stuck. This year it's a bit different. Time and the feedback of fine gents on here will let us know how far away we are. I believe we will be able to talk about some of the improvements here soon.

@Da_Czar: Thank you for a little insight about AI play evaluation.

I hope that you will speed up that thing (evaluation options). Is it possible to also speed up play set up, so that you don't burn 10-15 seconds of your attack?

Regarding the video I've seen lot of movement without any purpose from 0:14 till 0:20 (Calderon scene). I understand that Knicks guys try to maintain proper spacing, but number 11 comes from corner towards Calderon and he should set up a pick for Calderon. Calderon is expecting this and launch a drive, but it ended that number 11 doesn't set a pick and he is standing useless at 3pt line. To make situation better, number 11 is cutting to the basket and here we can see another bad AI judgement, this time in defense. Bosh is switching with Wade and for a brief moment we have 2 players guarding Calderon in a totally non-threatening position. Defense is over helping. Calderon has an easy pass to the cutting number 11, but he drives into the key for a difficult pull-up. There is also a little useful movement on the weak side, where Amare should set up a pick for J.R. Smith.

In following Miami Heat attack I noticed easy Bosh cutting into the paint, when Wade is doing his Crawford impersonation. In this situation Bosh should fight for position.

About other two attacks (NYK and MIA) I believe others said everything but I noticed slow defensive reaction from Melo, when Deng ran out to 3pt line for easy 3-pt. I think Melo (defense) again over help (to prevent penetration) in a non-threat position -> due to his over helping he allows Miami to score a 3pt. It was not a great play from Miami, which reward them with a good look and basket, it's a defense breakdown. And I think this show us a deeper problem with defense in general.

I hope new gameplay videos will shed more lights on defense

# 182 Colts18 @ 09/15/14 01:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by diehardknicksfan


	Looks like my boy STAT still got some game in him Saw that dunk icon next to his name

You know damn well he doesn't deserve a dunk icon by his name. This isn't 2005

# 183 HowDareI @ 09/15/14 01:54 PM

No Amare can still get up, trust me.

Every time he plays the Sixers he gets a poster or two, he's just inconsistent with his minutes for whatever reason.
If he starts this year he could be in the all star game I think.

Off topic, I've been disappointed with 2K's marketing ever since 2K12. Starting with 10 and 11 I was a huge Crew guy, and the whole summer into Sept. they said nothing about Crew and all the way up to release nothing was said...get the game at midnight with my friends, we go home put it in and no Crew, nothing for online My Player at all lol...
Starting to feel that way with this game now, they said a Crew-like mode was coming on next gen but we're so close to release with zero details.

At least GM is looking real good again.

# 184 Colts18 @ 09/15/14 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boilerbuzz


	No you can't. The game isn't designed to be played between 2 AI players. It's a user game and if it wasn't, then why is it a game? You guys over react to the smallest things, frankly. I don't like the video because the decision making and actions seemed basic or not as fluid and creative as a human. I PLAY the game. Not watch it. THAT is why you get the game.

Actually he is right. The best way to assess the AI is to play and AI vs AI game. Why you ask? Humans get in the way. We mess everything up with our constant switching on/off defenders. Being out of place defensively can cause a teammate to overcompensate in certain situations. Which is why I have always said that the best way to PLAY the game is Player Lock.

But he is right/

# 185 El_Poopador @ 09/15/14 02:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 24th Letter


	I definitely understand the gripe with some of 2k's animations...but as these conversations carry on, there tends be a bit of an exaggeration of how detrimental they are to game. We saw a game last year that suffered from a lack of sufficient animations and it wasn't pretty. We've also seen this in past 2k games. For me personally, I could have the most crisp controls ever created...if contact can't be generated a reliable rate because of the lack of sufficient animations...THATS not basketball either. People like to throw "physics" out there as the end all solution to all of this...but those physics would be plugged into animations as well. Animations are necessary. There just needs to be a balance.

I think my idea of physics based gameplay is very different from what other people see it as. I remember watching a video of it in action (I really wish I could find it now, because it had me floored thinking of the possibilities), where the user would generate a figure, whether it be human-shaped, a set of three blocks stacked up, whatever. And that shape would have a set of rules governing its movement, balance, etc.. Then they would show how that figure moved and interacts with other objects in that little world. It wasn't really an animation that caused the figure to walk, but just the way it could based on its shape, appendages, and balance. If they tried to make a figure shaped like Barbie, for example, it would fall straight forward due its tiny feet and frontal weight distribution.

I realize I may not have explained that well lol. But that's what I think of when I think of the potential of physics-based sports games. No real "animations," but rather each player moving independently and dynamically based on a set of rules governing the world.

I really need to find that video. It explains it so much better than me lol.

# 186 da ThRONe @ 09/15/14 02:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by 23


	Good Lord man I guess it just depends on what forum you're in that makes it worth commenting on or if its just negativity. I see where you stand

Did you even read my comments on the other thread when the video was leaked? Then you would know where I stand.

So be specific as to how my views change from forum to forum. My point is all info that's released is subject to being judged. Again I suggest you actual go read what I posted before trying to call me a hypocrite on the slick.

# 187 23 @ 09/15/14 02:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by da ThRONe


	Did you even read my comments on the other thread when the video was leaked? Then you would know where I stand. So be specific as to how my views change from forum to forum. My point is all info that's released is subject to being judged. Again I suggest you actual go read what I posted before trying to call me a hypocrite on the slick.

If I wanted to call you a name I would have but that wasn't my thoughts at all.

I honestly don't care what you think to be honest since you decided to assume what I was thinking.

What you think has no bearing on how I feel about basketball games and since you're the only one that can read and all you should've figured that out pretty easily.

Anyway if you want to discuss this more we can take it pm

# 188 eko718 @ 09/15/14 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Da_Czar


	One note on that. In short distances players don't always sprint in game because if the user lead passes it will mess up the rhythm of the play. If you watch calderon he set's up the cut first and then he has, what.. 10 feet between were he is and where he will receive the ball. Sprint cuts in the game wouldn't allow him to stop in time. All the movement this year is coordinated. If you recall last year the play would break with complex movement because guys were sprinting and bumping. Also as you see more of the game you will see we have a variety of movement. If you always move at the same speed your easier to guard was the philosophy. So with offscreen plays like floppy's or 12 quick's you will not see all out turbo you will see him build speed and sometime hit a burst when it counts to get open. I think this gradual change of speed and the smoothness of the animations is giving the impression of a lack of urgency. Maybe they need to be even MORE urgent which is what I hear you saying. We have counters for cheating defenders so it is not all about beating a guy to a spot this year. Also the D has penalties for turbo usage so offscreen has a tad more cat and mouse this year. What I THINK you will see as you see more is that the game is running at a 48 min pace. It is hard to get a feel for that just watching a play here or a play there. Also you should notice teams like houston have much less complex plays that therefore run faster that theoretically should enable them to have more possessions than a team like the knicks. NBA players don't always sprint everywhere. I do agree that in general the game doesn't LOOK explosive be it changing speeds on offense or running off a screen off ball. It is def a different pace than what you were used to in 2k14. Once you get hands on if you choose to pick it up or demo it. And you can see the benefits of the movement we have on offense then I want to know how you feel about speeding that up and negatives that are associated with it. We matched the offense closely to what is the most the motion system can handle. I changed philosophy in the design of the plays 3 times this cycle according to how the motion system was being developed. Considering all pro's and con's I felt really good about where the system was at. But as I said my ears are def open. Just sharing that it was not a trivial decision and a lot of testing and thought went into it my part. That by no means, means LOL it can't be better.

Thanks for the through explanation and your willingness to hear feedback; it is definitely revealing to see the methodology behind this. Ultimately, I agree that the best judge is to play it and analyze it thoroughly.

Perhaps the gradual change of speed that you described might be part of what I interpreted to be an issue, because to me player movement at its core has not yet been perfected. There is a general artificial slowness to the game IMO and minimal contrast between jogging and running, and a minimal sense of explosive movement. What I am interpreting as a 'lack of urgency' might be symptomatic of that.

On that Calderon play you mentioned, I can understand your point. But when Melo comes off that Dalembert screen and goes baseline, it would seem more authentic if he exploded as he rounded that corner instead of what appeared to be a leisurely jog, especially with the shot clock winding down. It is in those type of areas I kind of hope the AI has the 'sense' to take advantage of an opportunity to create separation.

Small sample size though, and your detailed breakdown encourages me to believe you are on top of it and constantly improving it.

# 189 The 24th Letter @ 09/15/14 02:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Poopador


	I think my idea of physics based gameplay is very different from what other people see it as. I remember watching a video of it in action (I really wish I could find it now, because it had me floored thinking of the possibilities), where the user would generate a figure, whether it be human-shaped, a set of three blocks stacked up, whatever. And that shape would have a set of rules governing its movement, balance, etc.. Then they would show how that figure moved and interacts with other objects in that little world. It wasn't really an animation that caused the figure to walk, but just the way it could based on its shape, appendages, and balance. If they tried to make a figure shaped like Barbie, for example, it would fall straight forward due its tiny feet and frontal weight distribution. I realize I may not have explained that well lol. But that's what I think of when I think of the potential of physics-based sports games. No real "animations," but rather each player moving independently and dynamically based on a set of rules governing the world. I really need to find that video. It explains it so much better than me lol.

Sounds interesting, but from how you describe it, it doesn't sound like something fitting for a game trying to simulate a sport...

Unlike the blocks or other objects, if we're attempting to recreate a human walking, there is going to need to be an animation built to reflect a humans movement...and animations inserted for how that human would interact with other humans.

I've heard you reference Backbreaker a lot when speaking on this...and what that game touted was dynamic animations determined by physics....the two go hand in hand in the gaming world...

Let me know if you ever find that video...

# 190 Sundown @ 09/15/14 03:20 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts18


	Actually he is right. The best way to assess the AI is to play and AI vs AI game. Why you ask? Humans get in the way. We mess everything up with our constant switching on/off defenders. Being out of place defensively can cause a teammate to overcompensate in certain situations. Which is why I have always said that the best way to PLAY the game is Player Lock. But he is right/

Not exactly. The AI was DESIGNED to be played primarily against by human defenders. Therefore, the best evaluation of the game is watching a human play against AI at his level.

Sure, ideally, I too would prefer an AI that just inherently and intuitively understands basketball like the best coaches and players do, but unfortunately, that's not the case. It seems to stalemate against itself, because it may not have been designed primarily to defeat itself. So we have to ask ourselves what's more important-- how the game will actually play and respond to us when we actually play-- or us being able to criticize the AI's root implementation academically if it falls short of our platonic ideals?

I'm going to side with the latter 10 out of 10 times, because that will be my actual experience with the game. But I can still hope that the AI approaches holistic, intuitive basketball understanding and IQ. That makes a lot more practical and logical sense to me than evaluating how it would play by setting it on terrible difficulty settings and then... um... not playing.

But dang, that clip was pretty bad. I just hope it's because of Default AI settings.

# 191 turty11 @ 09/15/14 03:23 PM

in simplest of simple...

you CANNOT get an accurate judge of how the AI plays out with a user in the game.

said user is either 1. too good for the difficulty, 2. horrible at 2k, or 3. tryna get his cheese on, which is why all these early gameplay vids with people are terrible looking.

if im watching cpu vs cpu and its stagnant, i know it will still be stagnant when im vs the cpu. if the cpu cant look decent against itself, its going to be like im just playing blacktop when i get in there

# 192 Colts18 @ 09/15/14 03:26 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundown


	Not exactly. The AI was DESIGNED to be played primarily against by human defenders. Therefore, the best evaluation of the game is watching a human play against AI at his level.

We just have to agree to disagree instead of repeating the same points over and over. Roster makers test their work by watching CPU vs CPU games. That is done for a reason. Humans get in the way. But you got it.

# 193 Sundown @ 09/15/14 03:27 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by turty11


	in simplest of simple... you CANNOT get an accurate judge of how the AI plays out with a user in the game. said user is either 1. too good for the difficulty, 2. horrible at 2k, or 3. tryna get his cheese on, which is why all these early gameplay vids with people are terrible looking. if im watching cpu vs cpu and its stagnant, i know it will still be stagnant when im vs the cpu. if the cpu cant look decent against itself, its going to be like im just playing blacktop when i get in there

You also CANNOT accurately judge how the AI plays against a user WITHOUT a user in the game.

What a predicament. Maybe we should actually just play the thing.

# 194 turty11 @ 09/15/14 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Sundown


	You also CANNOT accurately judge how the AI plays against a user WITHOUT a user in the game. What a predicament. Maybe we should actually just play the thing.

actually you can. but i agree..just give us some actual dam gameplay 2k

# 195 Sundown @ 09/15/14 03:31 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Colts18


	We just have to agree to disagree instead of repeating the same points over and over. Roster makers test their work by watching CPU vs CPU games. That is done for a reason. Humans get in the way. But you got it.

Oh, I don't disagree getting CPU to play well against the CPU is a good test and would likely translate to better human vs CPU play and that it's a good methodology for roster builders.

I'm just saying it's not the end all and be all of determining how it plays in person if the CPU assumes things that stalemates against itself when a human tends to "grease" things a bit by being more dynamic.

Quote:

Originally Posted by turty11


	actually you can. but i agree..just give us some actual dam gameplay 2k

All I know is that what I watched is not indicative of my usual experience with the CPU at most playable levels, unless the difficulty is turned too low. I agree it's pretty bad though, and at least some of it will trickle into real gameplay if it's not just a case of Default Derp AI.

# 196 JBulls @ 09/15/14 03:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 24th Letter


	Sounds interesting, but from how you describe it, it doesn't sound like something fitting for a game trying to simulate a sport... Unlike the blocks or other objects, if we're attempting to recreate a human walking, there is going to need to be an animation built to reflect a humans movement...and animations inserted for how that human would interact with other humans. I've heard you reference Backbreaker a lot when speaking on this...and what that game touted was dynamic animations determined by physics....the two go hand in hand in the gaming world... Let me know if you ever find that video...

Pretty sure this is what he's talking about

https://www.ted.com/talks/torsten_re...n?language=en#

Note that the year is 2003

Edit: Also note that he said this tech will at first likely be utilized by sports games, lol.

# 197 El_Poopador @ 09/15/14 04:18 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBulls


	Pretty sure this is what he's talking about https://www.ted.com/talks/torsten_re...n?language=en# Note that the year is 2003

That's exactly what I was referring to lol. Might have been a different video, but exactly the same concept.

Quote:

Originally Posted by The 24th Letter


	Sounds interesting, but from how you describe it, it doesn't sound like something fitting for a game trying to simulate a sport... Unlike the blocks or other objects, if we're attempting to recreate a human walking, there is going to need to be an animation built to reflect a humans movement...and animations inserted for how that human would interact with other humans. I've heard you reference Backbreaker a lot when speaking on this...and what that game touted was dynamic animations determined by physics....the two go hand in hand in the gaming world... Let me know if you ever find that video...

I did reference it a lot with BackBreaker, since it was essentially their base. But I just imagine what could be done with that technology, and hope that somewhere, someone is working with it lol. It's not really animations in the sense that we're used to, but more of a movement engine (I'm sure you've heard me say that before too lol) that allows the shape to move whatever way is realistically possible within its set of rules. What we have is a series of motion captured events playing out as the character animates. Although there are so many animations that it may feel dynamic, every movement is essentially scripted, and the characters cannot move outside of those motions (barring an odd glitch like an arm spazzing out to the opposite side of their body, or something like that).

# 198 JBulls @ 09/15/14 04:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by El_Poopador


	That's exactly what I was referring to lol. Might have been a different video, but exactly the same concept. I did reference it a lot with BackBreaker, since it was essentially their base. But I just imagine what could be done with that technology, and hope that somewhere, someone is working with it lol.

The company is http://www.naturalmotion.com/

Buy them out 2K!!! lol

NaturalMotion > EcoMotion

# 199 Eman5805 @ 09/15/14 05:33 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JBulls


	They weren't able to get the rights to it. Still, they could've at least put "New York Knicks \| Arena" to fill the missing logo on the floor. Better than nothing.

What's the story behind that? UFC and NHL 15 have got the rights, maybe NBA Live too, so, what's the bugaboo here?

Did the Garden make a deal with EA and EA only?

# 200 JBulls @ 09/15/14 06:41 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Eman5805


	What's the story behind that? UFC and NHL 15 have got the rights, maybe NBA Live too, so, what's the bugaboo here? Did the Garden make a deal with EA and EA only?

I'm not sure why 2K wasn't able also obtain a license but the fact is that EA has it and 2K doesn't unfortunately.

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