NBA 2K15 Gameplay Video - Miami Heat vs. New York Knicks (IpodKingCarter)

[da ThRONe]

Quote: Originally Posted by 23

Good Lord man I guess it just depends on what forum you're in that makes it worth commenting on or if its just negativity. I see where you stand

Did you even read my comments on the other thread when the video was leaked? Then you would know where I stand.


So be specific as to how my views change from forum to forum. My point is all info that's released is subject to being judged. Again I suggest you actual go read what I posted before trying to call me a hypocrite on the slick.

[23]

Quote: Originally Posted by da ThRONe

Did you even read my comments on the other thread when the video was leaked? Then you would know where I stand. So be specific as to how my views change from forum to forum. My point is all info that's released is subject to being judged. Again I suggest you actual go read what I posted before trying to call me a hypocrite on the slick.

If I wanted to call you a name I would have but that wasn't my thoughts at all.

I honestly don't care what you think to be honest since you decided to assume what I was thinking.

What you think has no bearing on how I feel about basketball games and since you're the only one that can read and all you should've figured that out pretty easily.

Anyway if you want to discuss this more we can take it pm

[eko718]

Quote: Originally Posted by Da_Czar

One note on that. In short distances players don't always sprint in game because if the user lead passes it will mess up the rhythm of the play. If you watch calderon he set's up the cut first and then he has, what.. 10 feet between were he is and where he will receive the ball. Sprint cuts in the game wouldn't allow him to stop in time. All the movement this year is coordinated. If you recall last year the play would break with complex movement because guys were sprinting and bumping. Also as you see more of the game you will see we have a variety of movement. If you always move at the same speed your easier to guard was the philosophy. So with offscreen plays like floppy's or 12 quick's you will not see all out turbo you will see him build speed and sometime hit a burst when it counts to get open. I think this gradual change of speed and the smoothness of the animations is giving the impression of a lack of urgency. Maybe they need to be even MORE urgent which is what I hear you saying. We have counters for cheating defenders so it is not all about beating a guy to a spot this year. Also the D has penalties for turbo usage so offscreen has a tad more cat and mouse this year. What I THINK you will see as you see more is that the game is running at a 48 min pace. It is hard to get a feel for that just watching a play here or a play there. Also you should notice teams like houston have much less complex plays that therefore run faster that theoretically should enable them to have more possessions than a team like the knicks. NBA players don't always sprint everywhere. I do agree that in general the game doesn't LOOK explosive be it changing speeds on offense or running off a screen off ball. It is def a different pace than what you were used to in 2k14. Once you get hands on if you choose to pick it up or demo it. And you can see the benefits of the movement we have on offense then I want to know how you feel about speeding that up and negatives that are associated with it. We matched the offense closely to what is the most the motion system can handle. I changed philosophy in the design of the plays 3 times this cycle according to how the motion system was being developed. Considering all pro's and con's I felt really good about where the system was at. But as I said my ears are def open. Just sharing that it was not a trivial decision and a lot of testing and thought went into it my part. That by no means, means LOL it can't be better.

Thanks for the through explanation and your willingness to hear feedback; it is definitely revealing to see the methodology behind this. Ultimately, I agree that the best judge is to play it and analyze it thoroughly.

Perhaps the gradual change of speed that you described might be part of what I interpreted to be an issue, because to me player movement at its core has not yet been perfected. There is a general artificial slowness to the game IMO and minimal contrast between jogging and running, and a minimal sense of explosive movement. What I am interpreting as a 'lack of urgency' might be symptomatic of that.

On that Calderon play you mentioned, I can understand your point. But when Melo comes off that Dalembert screen and goes baseline, it would seem more authentic if he exploded as he rounded that corner instead of what appeared to be a leisurely jog, especially with the shot clock winding down. It is in those type of areas I kind of hope the AI has the 'sense' to take advantage of an opportunity to create separation.

Small sample size though, and your detailed breakdown encourages me to believe you are on top of it and constantly improving it.

[The 24th Letter]

Quote: Originally Posted by El_Poopador

I think my idea of physics based gameplay is very different from what other people see it as. I remember watching a video of it in action (I really wish I could find it now, because it had me floored thinking of the possibilities), where the user would generate a figure, whether it be human-shaped, a set of three blocks stacked up, whatever. And that shape would have a set of rules governing its movement, balance, etc.. Then they would show how that figure moved and interacts with other objects in that little world. It wasn't really an animation that caused the figure to walk, but just the way it could based on its shape, appendages, and balance. If they tried to make a figure shaped like Barbie, for example, it would fall straight forward due its tiny feet and frontal weight distribution. I realize I may not have explained that well lol. But that's what I think of when I think of the potential of physics-based sports games. No real "animations," but rather each player moving independently and dynamically based on a set of rules governing the world. I really need to find that video. It explains it so much better than me lol.

Sounds interesting, but from how you describe it, it doesn't sound like something fitting for a game trying to simulate a sport...

Unlike the blocks or other objects, if we're attempting to recreate a human walking, there is going to need to be an animation built to reflect a humans movement...and animations inserted for how that human would interact with other humans.

I've heard you reference Backbreaker a lot when speaking on this...and what that game touted was dynamic animations determined by physics....the two go hand in hand in the gaming world...

Let me know if you ever find that video...

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by Colts18

Actually he is right. The best way to assess the AI is to play and AI vs AI game. Why you ask? Humans get in the way. We mess everything up with our constant switching on/off defenders. Being out of place defensively can cause a teammate to overcompensate in certain situations. Which is why I have always said that the best way to PLAY the game is Player Lock. But he is right/

Not exactly. The AI was DESIGNED to be played primarily against by human defenders. Therefore, the best evaluation of the game is watching a human play against AI at his level.

Sure, ideally, I too would prefer an AI that just inherently and intuitively understands basketball like the best coaches and players do, but unfortunately, that's not the case. It seems to stalemate against itself, because it may not have been designed primarily to defeat itself. So we have to ask ourselves what's more important-- how the game will actually play and respond to us when we actually play-- or us being able to criticize the AI's root implementation academically if it falls short of our platonic ideals?

I'm going to side with the latter 10 out of 10 times, because that will be my actual experience with the game. But I can still hope that the AI approaches holistic, intuitive basketball understanding and IQ. That makes a lot more practical and logical sense to me than evaluating how it would play by setting it on terrible difficulty settings and then... um... not playing.

But dang, that clip was pretty bad. I just hope it's because of Default AI settings.

[turty11]

in simplest of simple...

you CANNOT get an accurate judge of how the AI plays out with a user in the game.

said user is either 1. too good for the difficulty, 2. horrible at 2k, or 3. tryna get his cheese on, which is why all these early gameplay vids with people are terrible looking.

if im watching cpu vs cpu and its stagnant, i know it will still be stagnant when im vs the cpu. if the cpu cant look decent against itself, its going to be like im just playing blacktop when i get in there

[Colts18]

Quote: Originally Posted by Sundown

Not exactly. The AI was DESIGNED to be played primarily against by human defenders. Therefore, the best evaluation of the game is watching a human play against AI at his level.

We just have to agree to disagree instead of repeating the same points over and over. Roster makers test their work by watching CPU vs CPU games. That is done for a reason. Humans get in the way. But you got it.

[Sundown]

Quote: Originally Posted by turty11

in simplest of simple... you CANNOT get an accurate judge of how the AI plays out with a user in the game. said user is either 1. too good for the difficulty, 2. horrible at 2k, or 3. tryna get his cheese on, which is why all these early gameplay vids with people are terrible looking. if im watching cpu vs cpu and its stagnant, i know it will still be stagnant when im vs the cpu. if the cpu cant look decent against itself, its going to be like im just playing blacktop when i get in there

You also CANNOT accurately judge how the AI plays against a user WITHOUT a user in the game.

What a predicament. Maybe we should actually just play the thing.