12:24 PM - July 11, 2014 by Steve_OS
How does this change the NBA, your view of LeBron, and all the other angles to the story you can think of?
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12:24 PM - July 11, 2014 by Steve_OSHow does this change the NBA, your view of LeBron, and all the other angles to the story you can think of?
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# 442
ojandpizza @ 07/15/14 06:07 PM
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I was wondering if your opinion had changed any the way he left the "big 3" to return home. I didn't even notice you had posted about it.
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The more I think about this with each passing day I honestly believe this was a "team" decision instead of a "LeBron decision." Not team as in Cleveland looked better, but LeBrons team of Maverick and Rich ect. Not allowing Pat to talk to LeBron 1 on 1 after the finals, but allowing Dan Gilbert to speak first and for four hours.. I just believe Brons team was in his ear a lot about going back so they can run the joint, because they weren't running it in Miami. Who knows though maybe we will all know once LeBron hangs it up. 30 for 30 anyone? lol
# 444
Armor and Sword @ 07/16/14 01:41 PM
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He must of had a strong feeling something was not right and the fact (it has been reported now) Lebron denied Pat an exit interview (he has one with every player before they go on vacation) was not good.
He started with "I'm pissed" and everyone needs to a "get a grip". He was not happy about losing and was obviously really upset Lebron stone walled him on the end of the season exit interviews. As time goes on more information will emerge I am sure.
As far as Wade and Lebron's relationship. It goes deeper than basketball. These guys are extremely close friends. Mike Wallace who covers the Heat for ESPN.com talked about during Wade's bitter divorce and custody battle he would put Lebron on the phone to talk with his boys. These guys are brothers. But business is business. Now that it is all over, I am sure when Wade got on that plane he already knew it was over and I am sure he tried to talk Lebron out of it one more time. I venture to guess they will remain very close friends far beyond after their respective playing days are over. They made some NBA history together and will have that bond.
I think Bosh, Wade and Udonis did exactly what I always knew they would. Opt out and give the team the best shot at retaining Lebron for a couple of more seasons.
I truly believe in this order the factors for Lebron leaving were:
1. Home (duh) - The guy loves Akron Ohio. His wife loves Akron Ohio. We don't know what is going on behind the curtains here. But he was always going to go back to Cleveland. It was a matter of when not if. Mounting pressure from his family, raising his kids in Akron. I get it. I am a father/family man too. You can't fight family.
2. Power and PR - Lebron did not have the absolute power he had in Cleveland. No all access pass for his mom. His posse was not allowed to travel on the team plane, nor sit behind the Heat's bench. He was not consulted on some moves. This is Pat Riley's show. He is the president of The Miami Heat. And while you want to do everything you can to retain the greatest player in the world. Riley has his way. The Heat way which I have spoken about. I can pretty much assure you The Spurs have their set of rules as well. Certain teams have certain strict rules and do not allow any one player regardless of stature a run of the joint. Period. I don't think this was the primary reason he left, but over 4 years it probably started to wear on him as he is the best and probably feels he should get whatever he wants. This was a perfect opportunity to pivot. Cleveland's cap space, landing yet another #1 overall pick and special talent in the making like Wiggins. The only place he could have gone and not be subject to more public scrutiny and look like a mercenary was home. Otherwise his legacy, his brand will be trademarked as a ring chaser. And that is exactly what he did when he came to Miami. Mission accomplished. He has 2 now and is a 2 time NBA champion. But he is still chasing greatness but now he will just resign himself to chase it at home. His letter was carefully constructed. "It is very hard to win titles", "I know we are not ready no way" "If I can bring one to Cleveland" This was his chance to fix his brand and his image. Yet I felt if he stayed in Miami it was already repaired. The guy has played incredible basketball over the last 4 years and won 2 titles. he had a good shot at some more right here despite some opinions saying no. I think he has a greater challenge these next two years in Cleveland. But that is wide open for debate.
3. Team around him - Yep. The Heat are longer in the tooth. No doubt Wade is in the twilight. No question Bosh in a few years will be hitting his as well. But this team still would have been making runs for a couple of more seasons. Would have it been hard? Of course. Would Lebron carry even more weight going forward? No doubt. But I watched Magic Johnson do the same thing. I watched Stockton and Malone do this their entire career. I also saw Jordan do plenty of heavy lifting in his incredible career. The new CBA helped put the kabosh on big threes going forward. Funny how that works. So unless three guys are willing to play for well below market (Spurs anyone?)...it will be a thing of the past. Riley though is a gifted GM in being able to put role players around his stars. It is the exact same thing Cleveland is going to try and do. If they manage to get Love...they have to pay him too. So what will happen in a few years if these young players really fulfill their true potential? They will not be able to pay them their market value. So I am very interested to see that play out. For the next season or 2 I think it is highly debatable if Lebron has rings with Kyrie and Wiggins vs Bosh and Wade. Now add Love then I can't debate that. That is a nice big three with Lebron, Love and Kyrie. Then it comes down to the roles players and the coaching. 3 guys can't do it alone. Despite what many think. The Heats success was more than the big three. It was a collective team effort. Of course Lebron was the work horse. But you need a village to go to 4 straight.
I still maintain Lebron's best shot at getting that 3rd and maybe even 4th ring right now was to stay put here for 2 more years and give it a go with guys he knows have done it, proven they can do it, and play championship like defense which is critical to really making it happen. A system that was proven and built around him. The next two years will either prove this true or false. But it totally seems Lebron (and his PR machine) have pivoted. It's not about ring's (plural) anymore. He has 2. It's about one for Cleveland. How can you be that bitter about that Heat fans? It is a heck of a narrative. A story that will be followed now for the rest of his career. So either he will be a hero forever in Cleveland by bringing home one Larry O'Brian trophy, or he will be known as the guy who left Cleveland and won two titles in Miami but was unable to bring one to his hometown. Lebron now has a new kind of pressure. For years one and two I think he get's a pass but as the years go on and if no title comes home to Cleveland....it will be interesting to see how the narrative changes. If I were a betting man I would bet on Lebron. But betting on that ownership group is hard. They have a proven track record of failure. Odds are he should be able to bring one home. He has some very nice young talent that can still develop quicker with his tutelage and most importantly...he is Lebron James.
Losing Lebron is a massive blow and for most teams a death blow (Cleveland 2010) but Riley has scrambled, kept 2/3 of his big three and added some good complimentary pieces. But two things still are going to be a huge challenge.
1. Rebounding
2. Point guard play
Same as the last 4 years. Problem is Lebron is gone and he masked that so well. So Bosh needs to step up and grab 10-12 again. He needs to take a couple of steps more to the inside again and be more of a power forward again. I am sure he will respond to the challenge. And of course Dwayne Wade finding some sort of a mini fountain of youth. You won't see him sitting 28 games again (unless he is hurt people seem to think it was because he was hurt). We don't have that luxury anymore (Lebron). 70 games easy (barring any set backs or injuries). An intense off-season for him to lose some weight, trim up, and re-charge the battery. I have confidence in Wade's drive and heart to play this upcoming season with a chip on his shoulder. He is a gamer and a winner. Also he is a full 1.5 years removed from his knee procedure which has helped him a ton. He looked better last year (up until the last 3 games of Finals and the greatness of The Spurs had a little something to do with that) than he has his last 2 seasons. His demise is being greatly exaggerated and I think it will drive him to quiet the doubters this upcoming season.
Maybe a late signing of Jameer Nelson happens and we get a veteran ball handler in here. He can also hit the three. That would take a ton of pressure off Napier having to play now. Shabazz is a decent piece to develop for the future.
If the Heat manage 45 wins I will be thrilled. The goal is to get into the post season and our personal championship would be to face Lebron and the Cav's and knock them out. That would be fun. That is what sports is all about. Great story lines.
GO HEAT!!!!!
# 445
BringTheHeat @ 07/16/14 02:44 PM
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# 448
ojandpizza @ 07/16/14 10:15 PM
Hahaha, thanks for that, King!
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# 449
Cavsfan4life @ 07/16/14 11:29 PM
Seeing the team shape up after LBJ coming back has been nice, especially getting Miller when he had better offers. We need to address the C position, Andy and Thompson in spurts isnt going to be enough. Id love to some get Love and Dieng from MINN, as long as it doesn't involve Wiggins(which I think eventually happens). Either way, I think we could make the ECFs as constructed. The team is young but talented with Kyrie, Wiggins, Dion, Thompson, and Bennett. Andy(if he can stay healthy) and LBJ will clearly be the leaders, Andy's game has improved as well. We get Love, we could beat anyone IMO. This offseason has really been a blast. Went from probably drafting around 9-10, to getting the #1 pick and Wiggins, LBJ coming back, resigning Irving, and maybe getting Love. Including the Browns and Indians, its a fun time to be a CLE sports fan!
# 450
ojandpizza @ 07/16/14 11:34 PM
Minny isn't going to trade Dieng, especially if they think there is any chance they will have to "rebuild" soon. His per 36 rebounds are better than Love's and he was insanely productive once Pekovic went down.
If they lose Love I would assume they start the rebuild and trade off Pekovic. Dieng would likely be the new starting center.
But if I'm wrong he would be a huge asset for Cleveland.
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If they lose Love I would assume they start the rebuild and trade off Pekovic. Dieng would likely be the new starting center.
But if I'm wrong he would be a huge asset for Cleveland.
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I have a real issue with LeBron recruiting Miami guys.. Mike Miller, James Jones and now Ray Allen.. If he wanted this he should of stayed in Miami. His logic makes no sense to me.. It now also makes sense to me why LeBron took that end of season vacation with Allen and Jones. Was planning to leave the whole time. Wish he would of had the decency to tell Pat up front so we made quicker moves. Pat still made pretty solid moves though since the departure.
# 452
The 24th Letter @ 07/17/14 06:33 AM
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I'm a little confused by your logic as well.
Who would you say Riles missed out on? Seems like every one was waiting to see what Bron was going to do before committing anyway...
Also as far as "Miami guys" I could see if UD maybe followed Bron, but Miller and Jones were free agents, and pretty much free lance shooters at this point...Miller wasn't even with the Heat last year....
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Every man is free to do what he pleases. I'm so tired of people with all the "he knew already". blah blah... Stop it.
# 455
King_B_Mack @ 07/17/14 09:19 AM
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Hey, there's nothing wrong with talking about him knowing where he was going all along. Particularly when it's true. Certainly not like it's the first time he's done that.
It is funny though seeing a Heat fan complain about somebody recruiting "Heat players" and those players include Ray Allen and Mike Miller. Really? Those guys are Heat players? I think I'd say those two are Celtics and Grizzlies players more than Heat. Or Sonic and Wizard guys.
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But who knows... D23x could be right.We'll probably find out 20 years from now on 30 for 30.
What I mean by they are "heat" players is if LeBron wanted them Pat could of gotten them. All the guys Bron wants were brought to the Heat by Pat so why wouldn't he be able to do it again? I don't mean that their careers should be summarized as just what they did for the Heat.
Only reason Miller was amnestied was because his contract was too much to pay. If I'm not mistaken he would be able to resign with the Heat next season via amnesty rules. I just believe if you're going to ask for those guys why not go to Pat and suggest that. Instead he wants to run the whole Cavs organization bc imo he is on some type of power trip. Seems he wants to be player, GM, and coach and that wasn't happening in Miami not with Pat there. I also will not say that him leavings wasn't pre planned. He took a trip with Jones and Allen two guys he wants with the Cavs and one guy he has already gotten. Seems pretty pre planned to me.
Only reason Miller was amnestied was because his contract was too much to pay. If I'm not mistaken he would be able to resign with the Heat next season via amnesty rules. I just believe if you're going to ask for those guys why not go to Pat and suggest that. Instead he wants to run the whole Cavs organization bc imo he is on some type of power trip. Seems he wants to be player, GM, and coach and that wasn't happening in Miami not with Pat there. I also will not say that him leavings wasn't pre planned. He took a trip with Jones and Allen two guys he wants with the Cavs and one guy he has already gotten. Seems pretty pre planned to me.
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But in regard to the whole planned thing. Until we get a story that LeBron had this all planned out. You can't just say he did because it looks like it.
# 459
King_B_Mack @ 07/17/14 09:51 AM
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As for d23, come on dude you're sounding like the fake Heat fans right now with this. Pat wasn't going out to get a Kyrie Irving or an Andrew Wiggins or any other kind of youth infused roster. Keeping Ray and Jones then bringing in Miller wasn't the difference in LeBron staying or going. Obviously the Cavs need some vets mixed in with their youth and LeBron enjoys playing with those guys so he recruited them. I get you lost out on the dude, but some of this stuff you're bringing to the table right now...c'mon man.
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Whatever though I'll have to get over it sooner or later he isn't coming back and it is what it is. Hope Wade gets right this offseason and Bosh expands his game even more. Should be a good year for the East competitively speaking.
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