07:12 PM - May 2, 2013 by Steve_OSThis video is also available on the OS Youtube channel, please subscribe while you're there.
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Madden NFL 25 News Post
07:12 PM - May 2, 2013 by Steve_OSThis video is also available on the OS Youtube channel, please subscribe while you're there.
Madden NFL 25 Videos
Member Comments
# 201
The_Rick_14 @ 05/03/13 08:00 PM
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I just deal with people on a consistent basis that will exaggerate things with poor evidence to try to force their point and it bugs me. Sorry for the miscommunication.
# 202
SageInfinite @ 05/03/13 08:00 PM
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# 204
rootofalleli @ 05/03/13 08:44 PM
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Defenders in Madden chase the ball carrier like he just snatched their momma's purse. They launch themselves at the runner and miss when he instantaneously hops 5 feet. The runners in the video were shifty and elusive, not superhumanly quick. Madden does look a lot like football, but not when you look at what really works. Most of what those runners did to succeed in your video was about control, misdirection, and subtlety *Edit: They got away from defenders with small jukes, change of direction ability, and head/shoulder fakes, not dramatic special moves or speed bursts.* Madden defenders easily flood to the ball and suck the runner into a tackle. Real defenders need to contain, break down, and get a hand on a runner. That's one of the battles EA refuses to give us.
# 205
kjcheezhead @ 05/03/13 11:19 PM
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The only way the blocking is going to be fixed is if the next console games are built from scratch. If EA decides to port this current version, I think realistic blocking and tiered line play is a pipe dream we will never see. Casuals aren't impressed with them enough to overhaul it in a game cycle.
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# 207
UMhester04 @ 05/04/13 12:09 AM
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I can get down with this, it's honestly what I'm expecting as well. JP sometimes I brush off your posts cause it comes off that you just defend the game no matter what, but I kinda like that you look at the glass half-full. I try to do this a lot as well but i've come to the point where I know im not going to be satisfied until EA makes the running as realistic as possible.
They are going in the right direction with this run free, in fact when I saw they were adding foot planting in I gave a fist pump to myself lol, but that is just one part of the problem.
They need to fix how the defense reacts, as well as run blocking.
Next is pass blocking and the QB throws that are either right on the money or off target directly towards a defender.
I rambled but my point is I like that you try to be positive and I will join you in this attitude once these gameplay issues are fixed. For now, I will have to side with guys like Phobia, Sage, Tre, Rgiles, etc. Im sure they all want to be "glass half full" guys too, but we just need to see results now after a wasted generation of football games.
# 208
SageInfinite @ 05/04/13 12:35 AM
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# 209
SteelerSpartan @ 05/04/13 12:49 AM
Still looks pretty stiff and blocky For a year when they said they worked on the transitional animations
As some others have noted, Im worried about the Defensive AI. I want to see the new pursuit angles and the defense attacking the ball carrier as a dynamic unit
There is far too much one on one twitch so far for me in these trailers
Maybe the stamina bar will ease some of those worries come E3 when we get to see some raw gameplay, but given the past I don't have a lot of faith
Last year they were happy to state that they eliminated the Roll'N Chuck and as soon as some gameplay got out, Christian freaking Ponder was throwing 70 yard ropes off his back foot, that even Brett Favre would have trouble doing in his dreams
I worry that they're still taking the Online Shooter Crowd approach where they want to level the playing field by enhancing the players who get user'd. You shouldn't just be able to take any team in madden and instantly dominate because all the players/offenses/defenses react in the same manner
***Do not want to start an Vs Thread***
But I wish Madden had the depth of NBA 2k in this sense. I run with the Bulls in that game and have put in some time to learn their Plays, Signature Jump Shot Timing, Dribbling Abilities, Hot Spots on the Floor, and to monitor their stamina
When I switch to another team its really jarring. Theres a big difference in how well I can operate another teams strengths and manage their weaknesses.
Another example I could give would be for any lovers of Forza or GT. You can't just take an American muscle car and make it turn/accelerate/decelerate like a drift machine
As some others have noted, Im worried about the Defensive AI. I want to see the new pursuit angles and the defense attacking the ball carrier as a dynamic unit
There is far too much one on one twitch so far for me in these trailers
Maybe the stamina bar will ease some of those worries come E3 when we get to see some raw gameplay, but given the past I don't have a lot of faith
Last year they were happy to state that they eliminated the Roll'N Chuck and as soon as some gameplay got out, Christian freaking Ponder was throwing 70 yard ropes off his back foot, that even Brett Favre would have trouble doing in his dreams
I worry that they're still taking the Online Shooter Crowd approach where they want to level the playing field by enhancing the players who get user'd. You shouldn't just be able to take any team in madden and instantly dominate because all the players/offenses/defenses react in the same manner
***Do not want to start an Vs Thread***
But I wish Madden had the depth of NBA 2k in this sense. I run with the Bulls in that game and have put in some time to learn their Plays, Signature Jump Shot Timing, Dribbling Abilities, Hot Spots on the Floor, and to monitor their stamina
When I switch to another team its really jarring. Theres a big difference in how well I can operate another teams strengths and manage their weaknesses.
Another example I could give would be for any lovers of Forza or GT. You can't just take an American muscle car and make it turn/accelerate/decelerate like a drift machine
# 210
kjcheezhead @ 05/04/13 12:17 PM
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If the engaged players are not programmed to move, if the olineman continue to block one on one when the defense uses a 2 man rush nothing fundmamentally changes in the game or with online strategies.
Just got a chance to watch the vid as my work comp GPU might as well be nonexistent. Didn't want to comment on anything in the vid until I saw it to be fair. After having seen it... oh boy lol.
Don't have much more to add other than what has already been said. It is amazing to me though, that I knew EXACTLY what the video would look like before even seeing it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Run Free is a great concept. I have long complained that the special moves were so terrible in Madden, that it encouraged people to use zig zagging, because it was just much more effective. I'm all for getting a more free style of running, because you want to be able to pull off those highlight moments. What is clear to everyone, except, perhaps, Tiburon, is that it is absolutely pointless to worry about the special moves when the rest of the animation, locomotion, and physics with respect to running (weight, momentum, balance, etc) remain in the utter state of disrepair that they are currently in.
For all the change that they have tried to effect over the last 3yrs, this game is SO far away from being where it needs to be, that it deeply saddens me. I can't even muster the strength to get angry anymore. Many people defend them by saying that they are doing the best that they can. I agree with that 1000%, and for me, that is the part that saddens me most.
They don't get it. You can believe that they get it now if you want, but I don't. I don't think that next gen will make much difference to be honest. I hope it will, but I seriously doubt it. This isn't the first gen that Madden was ever developed on. Madden has changed very little over the years, and I'm not just talking about the PS3 and 360 iterations.
I could make a list the size of this forum of things that are the same, but that would take too long. The bottom line is that Madden shares a lot in common with Call of Duty. The game is very popular right now and despite the many little changes that they make to the game every year, it remains popular, because despite all those little changes, you can still jump into a game of the newest version and instantly feel at home. It's like throwing on an old sweatshirt. The formula works. It's popular, so don't change it much and it will remain just as popular, until the customers get tired of it. Hasn't happened yet, but there is no doubt that it will. That is what we are seeing with Madden. The game has stayed the same due to its popularity and has remained popular, until it isn't. Not like it was. Not by a long shot.
This is the part where posters chime in with the requisite, "but they know that now, and that's why they are changing." That's almost correct. They know that now and they are TRYING to change, but that's not the same thing. They had a vision that resonated with fans and made Madden the most popular sports videogame, and one of the most popular videogames period, until it wasn't. There is no guarantee that they know how to do anything else than what they have already done, or that even if they do, that it will be anymore enjoyable than what they did before. I'm firmly entrenched in the camp of doubt.
Looking back, with my nostalgia glasses put away on top of the nightstand, I see what Madden is not, and never was, and I hold myself culpable for the state that Madden is in. As hard as it may be to believe, though I have LONG been a Madden critic, and have been under no illusions of what was wrong with the title and the team responsible for making it, I was a glass half full optimist. Can't do it anymore.
I think Dennis Green put it best. "They are who we thought they were, and we let em off the hook."
Don't have much more to add other than what has already been said. It is amazing to me though, that I knew EXACTLY what the video would look like before even seeing it. The more things change, the more they stay the same.
Run Free is a great concept. I have long complained that the special moves were so terrible in Madden, that it encouraged people to use zig zagging, because it was just much more effective. I'm all for getting a more free style of running, because you want to be able to pull off those highlight moments. What is clear to everyone, except, perhaps, Tiburon, is that it is absolutely pointless to worry about the special moves when the rest of the animation, locomotion, and physics with respect to running (weight, momentum, balance, etc) remain in the utter state of disrepair that they are currently in.
For all the change that they have tried to effect over the last 3yrs, this game is SO far away from being where it needs to be, that it deeply saddens me. I can't even muster the strength to get angry anymore. Many people defend them by saying that they are doing the best that they can. I agree with that 1000%, and for me, that is the part that saddens me most.
They don't get it. You can believe that they get it now if you want, but I don't. I don't think that next gen will make much difference to be honest. I hope it will, but I seriously doubt it. This isn't the first gen that Madden was ever developed on. Madden has changed very little over the years, and I'm not just talking about the PS3 and 360 iterations.
I could make a list the size of this forum of things that are the same, but that would take too long. The bottom line is that Madden shares a lot in common with Call of Duty. The game is very popular right now and despite the many little changes that they make to the game every year, it remains popular, because despite all those little changes, you can still jump into a game of the newest version and instantly feel at home. It's like throwing on an old sweatshirt. The formula works. It's popular, so don't change it much and it will remain just as popular, until the customers get tired of it. Hasn't happened yet, but there is no doubt that it will. That is what we are seeing with Madden. The game has stayed the same due to its popularity and has remained popular, until it isn't. Not like it was. Not by a long shot.
This is the part where posters chime in with the requisite, "but they know that now, and that's why they are changing." That's almost correct. They know that now and they are TRYING to change, but that's not the same thing. They had a vision that resonated with fans and made Madden the most popular sports videogame, and one of the most popular videogames period, until it wasn't. There is no guarantee that they know how to do anything else than what they have already done, or that even if they do, that it will be anymore enjoyable than what they did before. I'm firmly entrenched in the camp of doubt.
Looking back, with my nostalgia glasses put away on top of the nightstand, I see what Madden is not, and never was, and I hold myself culpable for the state that Madden is in. As hard as it may be to believe, though I have LONG been a Madden critic, and have been under no illusions of what was wrong with the title and the team responsible for making it, I was a glass half full optimist. Can't do it anymore.
I think Dennis Green put it best. "They are who we thought they were, and we let em off the hook."
Agree with the sentiment, LT, and last year I regretted buying Madden. Came out of the 360 in early November and never saw a return.
The thing is, I can't control the purchases of 5 millon other people, which you already alluded to.
The thing is, I can't control the purchases of 5 millon other people, which you already alluded to.
One thing I hope the address is how much momentum you lose performing the moves. M13 had it wrong, way to slow through the animations and no variance between players at all. Ratings, like AGI and ACC plus the move rating should determine variable losses in momentum. Watching some of the highlight vids really shows how in the NFL players get in ant out of some of those moves way more quickly than M13 allows you to replicate.
# 214
huskerwr38 @ 05/04/13 03:07 PM
I think the intend of the video is to show off the moves which explains the poor defense. But the fact that the RBs are able to string together and pull off all of these moves is disappointing. Ball carriers don't hop over a player instantly bust through a tackle with then spin and juke through a defense while barely touching the ground. There is so much sliding go on, the players are moving forward without touching the ground it just looks awful. I haven't even touched the animations. Just too arcade.
# 215
hanzsomehanz @ 05/04/13 03:08 PM
While you are there, BFD, what about the lack of impact to the field on footplants? Skating? How can you get a good dig into the field using hockey simulations? Decleaters? The collition aftermaths from last year were like ones you would see in NHL, now even moreso.
I cannot fathom how we could get the proper simulation using platforms from multiple sports.
Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2
I cannot fathom how we could get the proper simulation using platforms from multiple sports.
Sent from my SGH-I727R using Tapatalk 2
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# 217
DorianDonP @ 05/04/13 07:09 PM
I'm putting my hopes into next gen being a fresh start.
I guess the question is, do they all but start over from scratch or do they carry a good bit of this gen into next. And if so, what do they carry over for sure?
I guess the question is, do they all but start over from scratch or do they carry a good bit of this gen into next. And if so, what do they carry over for sure?
# 218
SageInfinite @ 05/04/13 07:35 PM
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Also the culture has got to change as I keep saying. No more easy quick band-aid fixes. No more half assing stuff. Things have to be designed with realism in mind. They can't just talk and market anymore.
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They mo-cap people performing everything that's in the game, according to them. They boast that their tech is on the level of the tech used for Avatar. I don't see anyone in Avatar looking like Lurch. The animation in Avatar looks pretty damn good to me.
Either they mo-cap aliens, they lied about their mo-cap practice, or they totally bunk up what ever they capture when translating it to a game. I don't know which of those is the right answer, but I'm gonna have to say the last choice makes the most sense.
No reason for them to use any animations from NHL or Live, unless they have been lying about mo-cap since forever.
# 220
SageInfinite @ 05/04/13 10:55 PM
I actually had some hope when those prototype videos were being shown, lol.
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