Madden NFL 13 News Post

Madden NFL 13 Video - Replay Footage and Packers vs. Bears Pre-Game (Pastapadre)

09:27 PM - April 25, 2012 by jpdavis82

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# 101 RGiles36 @ 04/27/12 04:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by spankdatazz22


	Instead it's the same outside/in approach of focusing on the skill positions and little attention given to the OL/DL play, versus an inside/out approach that while not as exciting makes more sense long term. I'm sure they've made improvements to the OL/DL on some level, but it'd be nice to see the less glamorous aspects of the gameplay be given as much attention as the QB/WR play received and addressed sooner rather than later. To that end it doesn't seem like things have changed; they always seem like the team that refuses to draft an offensive lineman because they're normally not sexy picks.

I'm not going to present anything that's going to change anyone's mind, but I would like to respond to this.

Here's something Taz just stated in another thread:

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	*The average fan won't be able to tell if it really executes properly.*

(for context, he was talking about something that had to do w/ the OL/DL interaction)

All things being equal, we'd all agree that both the passing game and OL/DL interactions needed an overhaul. Ideally, we'd like both addressed in the same cycle. If that can't happen, then a decision has to be made and I think that's the signifigance of Taz's post.

If they had the flexibility to only address passing or OL/DL, then I think they went with the right option. It's not so much about working outside/inside or going with the sexier option (although that's probably part of it). I think what sways a decision is bang-for-their-development-buck.

Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.

Hell, I think we're just now seeing some fans want to dig deeper into the game as evidenced by the emergence of hardcore sites such as profootballfocus.com. Even here at OS, you can tell who knows about trench work and who's just regurgitating what they've read from other knowledgeable OSers.

So again, I don't think it's as cut & dry as going with the sexy pick (borrowing your draft metaphor). We all understand that the end-game is to move units. I think it makes more sense to make necessary changes to the passing game as more people are going to notice and appreciate those.

That said, I firmly believe OL/DL is on their immediate radar.

# 102 LBzrule @ 04/27/12 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	I'm not going to present anything that's going to change anyone's mind, but I would like to respond to this. Here's something Taz just stated in another thread: (for context, he was talking about something that had to do w/ the OL/DL interaction) All things being equal, we'd all agree that both the passing game and OL/DL interactions needed an overhaul. Ideally, we'd like both addressed in the same cycle. If that can't happen, then a decision has to be made and I think that's the signifigance of Taz's post. If they had the flexibility to only address passing or OL/DL, then I think they went with the right option. It's not so much about working outside/inside or going with the sexier option (although that's probably part of it). I think what sways a decision is bang-for-their-development-buck. Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less. Hell, I think we're just now seeing some fans want to dig deeper into the game as evidenced by the emergence of hardcore sites such as profootballfocus.com. Even here at OS, you can tell who knows about trench work and who's just regurgitating what they've read from other knowledgeable OSers. So again, I don't think it's as cut & dry as going with the sexy pick (borrowing your draft metaphor). We all understand that the end-game is to move units. I think it makes more sense to make necessary changes to the passing game as more people are going to notice and appreciate those. That said, I firmly believe OL/DL is on their immediate radar.

I think you are right with respect to the fans. Most of them are not going to even look at it. The other thing I will add is that I think the decision they made to not overhaul it this year is because OL/DL is the most difficult work to do in a football game. WR/DB was/is easier to deal with pending on how deep a developer wants this to be. I hope it will have some depth to it. Back to OL/DL. Once you make the decision that your DL and OL are no longer tied to each other, now you open up a big a$$ can of worms that you better know what the hell you are doing once you go down that road. It took 2k 2 years to write that for 2k8 and they were going to add to it. It is by far the best pass blocking to date and they were not done with it. But with their play system the way it was, namely OL/DL already not tied together that made it a bit "easier" for them to pull off. EA will be starting from the ground up with OL/DL. Pivotal decisions will need to be made from the jump. Do they leave the play system alone or do they now decided to go with tiered defensive play calling? Lots of decisions have to be made before they jump into this.

# 103 KyrieIrving @ 04/27/12 05:59 PM

Hat interception around 25-30 was amazinly played out, i hope we see that more often

# 104 LBzrule @ 04/27/12 06:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	Russ and LB - great posts... The bolded text is something I find VERY interesting... I guess my question is, why was 2k able to do this (obviously several years ago) and the big mammoth company who has endless resources and the exclusive license still has not?

My biggest guess is that from the previous gen, 2k already had the plan of revamping the OL. They made that decision and went to work on it. Secondly, I think their play set for defense allowed them to make this decision easily. They went ahead and did the hard work of re-working the play set for defense when they did 2k4. This goes back to decisions made previous impact later decisions. I think EA may develop their own way or working out OL/DL. We'll see. Interestingly, I don't think they will renew the NFL license. They will finally have their game on next gen matching everything their competitor had on last gen so then they wouldn't care. Just my opinion. Can't be proved.

# 105 Senator Palmer @ 04/27/12 08:42 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by rgiles36


	Let's take Madden out of the equation and think about the average football fan: do they understand principles of OL/DL battles? Do they know the signifigance of a stunt? Do they even know what a kickslide is? Sure some fans do, but a significant number could care less.

It's a shame, generally speaking, that the lines aren't looked at with more awe. I find a certain beauty in what goes on in the trenches. It's where the game is made and broken in real life football and its virtual counter.

And speaking of the kickslide, I'm counting the days until I can see this in Madden:

...instead of this:

^This has got to go. I'm with rgiles in that I believe they feel the same way, Clint especially.

# 106 darknmild @ 04/27/12 10:10 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	Not much to say about the vid that hasn't already been said. Thanks for saving me some time PG. Much easier to just like everything you said. I see neither of you post here much, but this is the type of passive aggressive, immature nonsense that moves threads towards being locked. Have some respect for people's opinions. If you're happy with the imrpvoements, excellent. But don't insult folks that don't feel the same. Many here are pretty good at expressing & explaining themselves. I bet if you address someone directly, they'd be happy to tell you why they're not as impressed as you.

it goes both ways.

# 107 darknmild @ 04/27/12 11:12 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by darknmild


	it goes both ways.

Disregard my last post

# 108 PVarck31 @ 04/27/12 11:46 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by balcobomber25


	As happens EVERY year, the EA fanboys see 3 minutes of carefully selected game footage and proclaim this to be the greatest game ever and jump all over anyone who proclaims otherwise....

You won't last too long around here calling people fan boys. Just sayin.

# 109 pcoz2000 @ 04/28/12 10:31 PM

Madden sucks!

# 110 Robby73 @ 04/29/12 02:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by tazdevil20


	This is exactly the post I was going to write. Thanks PG, you saved me the trouble of finding the right words. I'm what you would consider an "old timer". I started playing Madden in 1988, you know, probably around the time most of you were born. There was an incarnation of Madden on the computer before the Genesis version. I've played damn near every football game ever made. I had them all. This Madden LOOKS good, but nothing is REALLY popping out at me. It's the same MO, which is the frustration you are seeing from people in this thread. These improvements, if they work as advertised, are all great. However, basic player movement, warping, leaping, and ridiculous acts that defy every law of physics is what destroys this game. Basic line interaction which is done so perfectly in other older games destroys this game. Nothing tells me the players are actually alive. They are robots. I'm willing to bet that the same issue plaguing all of the other Madden's will be there as well - when the ball is about to leave the QB's hand, all 11 defenders will stop on a dime and begin to move towards the ball. EA sees dollar signs, but they can't see the forest through the trees. The videos they are showing do not look much different than the videos I saw for M11 and M12. It always looks impressive showing the high resolution replays and those finer details, but when you are actually playing the game, it doesn't look like that. No one has ever questioned how Madden looks. It looks AMAZING - the art team has done a tremendous job. It's when you start actually playing it where it all goes awry. As of right now, I'm passing on this game. People can label me what they want, but I'm not 12 so I don't subscribe to that ridiculous "*****" terminology. I'm a realist. I have no angst towards EA, I could care less about the company. I care about the football. The challenge system, penalties, player movement and cutting without momentum, warping/teleporting, terrible OL/DL interaction, no real pocket, etc. etc. are all still going to be left on the table and I'll be told to wait until "next year". Tiburon has their work cut out for them to keep their classic customer base. Maybe they don't care too, since younger kids today will be buying this game and think it's amazing. They can play as their favorite team and score 50 points on the Ravens defense. It will be exciting to watch catches in triple coverage, Patrick Willis cover Calvin Johnson step for step and have Adrian Peterson plow through an entire defense 4 times a game while zig zagging through defenders on his way to the end zone. Oh well, there's always next gen.

talk about zig zag down field I remember when i was teen myself playing a game called tecmo bowl ,you older guys have to remember bo jackson. I tend to agree with what you say but at the same time i had alot of fun in my days with tecmo, lol and now you couldnt pay me to play it, but that was the game back then though and i loved it..

# 111 baller_of_the_year @ 04/29/12 08:48 PM

The lip synching of Nantz and Simms is Laugh Out Loud horrible.

They GOTTA fix that.

I'll probably still pass on this year's Madden unless is mind bogglingly brilliant like NBA 2K11 and 12 were. After all, this is where Madden SHOULD be by now in it's seventh year on Next Gen consoles. Not in what is essentially a "rebuilding stage". That shoulda been in Madden 06. With the exclusive deal and the ESPN exclusivity the amount of potential squandered by EA over the years is quite simply embarrassing.

# 112 mrprice33 @ 04/29/12 09:04 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller_of_the_year


	The lip synching of Nantz and Simms is Laugh Out Loud horrible. They GOTTA fix that.

Now that's probably a product of being pre-alpha. That's something they should and probably will fix.

# 113 MrChainsaw @ 04/29/12 10:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller_of_the_year


	The lip synching of Nantz and Simms is Laugh Out Loud horrible. They GOTTA fix that. I'll probably still pass on this year's Madden unless is mind bogglingly brilliant like NBA 2K11 and 12 were. After all, this is where Madden SHOULD be by now in it's seventh year on Next Gen consoles. Not in what is essentially a "rebuilding stage". That shoulda been in Madden 06. With the exclusive deal and the ESPN exclusivity the amount of potential squandered by EA over the years is quite simply embarrassing.

That being said, I'm sure you will still end up buying the game on release day.

# 114 johnnyg713 @ 04/29/12 10:56 PM

Positives - I love the new read and react system. Finally EA. Hope it works as well as advertised, but gotta give credit where it is due. Pass trajectories are awesome. All the NEW animations look great. The catch animations look really good. Even the drop back animations and throw on the run animations.

Negatives - Almost all the other animations beside the new ones. Regular Throw animations look untouched and look terrible. Running animations are bad. OL/DL WR/DB interactions need work still. Player models don't do it for me either.

# 115 SageInfinite @ 04/29/12 11:17 PM

Did they remove the sig qb throwing animations? Everybody looks like they throw the same in this video. That's definitely a fail if they did.

# 116 baller_of_the_year @ 04/30/12 12:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by MrChainsaw


	That being said, I'm sure you will still end up buying the game on release day.

I haven't bought a Madden game since Madden 04...lol

Seriously. I skipped Madden 05 and bought NFL 2K5 mostly because of the price drop and the screenshots I saw of Sportscenter. It was the best gaming decision I've made in my life. NFL 2K5 is the best football sim of all time only challenged in raw fun factor by Tecmo Super Bowl (yes, I know it's not a sim, but it's the funniest game ever made, imo).

It seems after 2005 EA Sports descended into a lazy, half hearted, arrogant company that felt they didn't hafta to work to sell their sports games (sans Fifa) all they had to do was stamp EA Sports on the box and throw money at the screen and voila.

2K captured my heart with 2K and 2K1 on Dreamcast but after Dreamcasts demise I went back to Madden (though I still played 2K and 2K1) my updates were Madden until the price drop when 2K won my heart back.

And EA has proven to not be worthy of the responsibility of being the sole provider of a sports sim. The fact that they released Madden 06 stripped down to the bare bones with NO COMMENTARY and NO REAL FEATURE SET after releasing what was a good game a year ago on PS2 was an absolute slap in the face to the fans, the NFL, and the Madden name itself. I've been disgusted with EA ever since. And sentiment has only grow with their half hazard efforts and lame excuses for piss poor products then sense.

So, no...I won't be buying Madden 12. Unless word gets out that is truly as revolutionary as 2K11 or 2K12. Til then, my fingers stay crossed for the eventual NFL 2K release.

# 117 DeuceDouglas @ 04/30/12 01:11 AM

I see a lot of people complaining about the Roman Harper clip where it appears he is mirroring the route ran by the receiver. I didn't think it was that bad. If you watch it, there is a decent delay between when Winslow breaks and when Harper breaks. It still looks a little odd how Harper is trailing and then magically jumps in front to deflect the pass but overall I'm okay with it.

In M12, the corners and safety's a lot of times would break on the receivers route before the receiver did. It was most evident in In's and Out's where as soon as the receiver started his break animation the corner would automatically run to where the receiver was headed.

# 118 DeuceDouglas @ 04/30/12 01:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by baller_of_the_year


	I haven't bought a Madden game since Madden 04...lol Seriously. I skipped Madden 05 and bought NFL 2K5 mostly because of the price drop and the screenshots I saw of Sportscenter. It was the best gaming decision I've made in my life. NFL 2K5 is the best football sim of all time only challenged in raw fun factor by Tecmo Super Bowl (yes, I know it's not a sim, but it's the funniest game ever made, imo). It seems after 2005 EA Sports descended into a lazy, half hearted, arrogant company that felt they didn't hafta to work to sell their sports games (sans Fifa) all they had to do was stamp EA Sports on the box and throw money at the screen and voila. 2K captured my heart with 2K and 2K1 on Dreamcast but after Dreamcasts demise I went back to Madden (though I still played 2K and 2K1) my updates were Madden until the price drop when 2K won my heart back. And EA has proven to not be worthy of the responsibility of being the sole provider of a sports sim. The fact that they released Madden 06 stripped down to the bare bones with NO COMMENTARY and NO REAL FEATURE SET after releasing what was a good game a year ago on PS2 was an absolute slap in the face to the fans, the NFL, and the Madden name itself. I've been disgusted with EA ever since. And sentiment has only grow with their half hazard efforts and lame excuses for piss poor products then sense. So, no...I won't be buying Madden 12. Unless word gets out that is truly as revolutionary as 2K11 or 2K12. Til then, my fingers stay crossed for the eventual NFL 2K release.

It's all opinion. I thought 2K5 was absolutely horrible. I'm always baffled at how so many people put it up on this pedestal as the end all, be all of football games. To each their own though, but this is Madden. Madden will never be 2K, 2K will never be Madden.

# 119 sva91 @ 04/30/12 04:05 AM

I'm not entirely sure how the process of making and/or editing a video game goes, BUT i think visually it's possible to improve. The chiefs uniforms for some reason look way better than the rest of the uniforms, almost like they had a whole different team do them, the stripes are at almost a 90degree angle and get cutoff as opposed to the bears who attempt to wrap around the sleeve, which overall makes everything look really bad. Like i mentioned earlier Aaron Rodgers looks like a hunchback, the pads in general are WAYYYY too bulky.

I know everyone is complaining about gameplay, but realistically that's not gonna change significantly from now until release date. I've done uniform mods for soccer games years ago and so i know it can't be that hard. my brother did college baseball teams in MS paint and they looked great in MVP baseball. Im pretty sure the body types can be improved though, the lower bodies look really good, but the upper part just looks way too bulky. Also i think it's ankle braces, but they look really good, and add a lot visually, i saw it in a bills clip. Ankle tape is one area that i think can be changed easily and make a big visual difference. It's athletic tape, not a cast.

The caching animations look really impressive, especially in the KC STL game, the endzone catch looks great. The qb animations look pretty bad though, would be nice to see them chop their feet more while moving their hips and scanning the field ala Brees and Manning.

Again i know some people couldn't care less about visuals like uniforms etc. especially if the gameplay sucks. But im pretty sure a lot of these little visual things are very doable from now until release date. and they would at least make the game visually appealing.

# 120 RGiles36 @ 04/30/12 10:42 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by SageInfinite


	Did they remove the sig qb throwing animations? Everybody looks like they throw the same in this video. That's definitely a fail if they did.

I'm pretty certain that they have not. Signature animations are a biggie for me and while I didn't surf through the sig anim catalog at CD, I certainly think I would've noticed if all QBs were throwing the same.

If all QBs are throwing the same in this vid (I haven't watched), I'd like to think it's a bug.

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