Madden 12 News Post

Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12

03:09 PM - July 25, 2011 by ChaseB

It would be putting it nicely to say that some people were unhappy about Madden's Online Franchise mode not being updated this year. But since I had the chance to speak with EA designer Anthony DiMento about Online Communities, I figured it would probably be wise to ask about the oft-discussed Online Franchise mode as well.

Below you will find the excerpt from my interview that details what the thought process was going into the development of this year's online feature set:

Quote:


	Operation Sports: There's a lot of people that are unhappy about not having any updates to Online Franchise mode this year, so was it a choice between Communities and Online Franchise this year, or was it nothing like that? Anthony DiMento: I know everybody's excuse for Online Franchise is that they look at the numbers, and nobody plays it, and it's a vocal minority of guys. But at the beginning of the year, Ian's mandate (Ed. note: Ian Cummings is the former Madden creative director) was that we had to do something for Online Team Play (OTP). So if we're going to do something for OTP, it's got to be the Clubs feature -- that's in FIFA and NHL, basically what this whole foundation is built on. So there wasn't going to be time for Clubs and a full upgrade to Online Franchise, so rather than making a few minor tweaks to Online Franchise, we were able to manipulate the Clubs feature to create Communities -- you know create that head-to-head experience that goes along with all the ranked team play stuff that Clubs brings. I mean I think what Online Franchise is all about from what I hear, and from my experience, is about playing together -- playing with your friends and playing against a group of guys you like playing with. And the biggest complaint we hear, other than it not being updated, is that it's really hard to schedule your time; that's been the problem here at the office, too. I have a Week 6 game, and I have one guy I have to play against. I'm just like, 'Hey, John, meet me online at 8:30. We're going to play our Week 6 game because the commissioner is going to advance the week tomorrow so we have to get this done.' And then either I have to work late and I don't it make in time, or he has to go pick up his wife at the airport or something like that. Guys just aren't able to coordinate. It's frustrating already, so we felt like Communities is still giving people that experience they want playing together without having to worry about thinking about figuring out that I have to wait for that one guy. Now you can be in a situation where you can have 2,000, or if you're in five communities, 10,000 other guys potentially that you can get a game against, and people you want to play against. So it was a matter of priorities, too. Everybody plays ranked head to head, and we had more guys play OTP last year than we had play Online Franchise mode. Basically that is what it comes down to.

My Take: This explanation doesn't let EA off the hook for things that were said about improving Online Franchise mode well before this year, but it certainly seems wise to focus on the majority of football gamers first and foremost. In many ways, it reminds me of the way Criterion tends to do things with their online features. The folks at Criterion, who are responsible for the Burnout franchise and Need for Speed: Hot Pursuit, have had a great amount of success focusing on core online experiences that you are simply able to hop in and out of quite easily. Criterion's racing games sometimes get criticized because people look at them on the surface and see something that does not really look that deep. In the end, it's really more deceptive than anything. Something like Autolog is sometimes easy to dismiss at first glance because it's a part of every single portion of the game rather than being a set mode; the same goes for "Easy Drive" in Burnout Paradise. However, if you stick around and actually play the games, you realize the simplicity gives way to a complex idea that was just implemented in such a way that it's easy to enjoy.

If Online Communities works correctly, then it should simply become a part of the way you play the game online. Imagining a scenario where you can easily hop online and get a game in against likeminded gamers either by going head to head or by going through the OTP lobby would add so much to the Madden experience online. At the end of the day, it's about ease of use. If you hop online, and then have to deal with various barriers of entry before finding a quality game, you're going to be less likely to come back. If everything is streamlined, then you come back day after day because it's quick, easy and you're having fun.

Again, it doesn't solve the problems people have with already having a small, built-in group they want to play Online Franchise mode with on a daily basis, but it seems like that's a very small number of people in the grand scheme of things for EA. So if EA can bring more people back to the online features throughout the year, then it makes more sense that those formerly unconnected people will eventually want more from their experience, and thus a greater demand will pick up for more in-depth experiences like Online Franchise mode. Lastly, if Communities somehow enables EA to further streamline the ways you can connect with potential opponents, then that will help Online Franchise mode when it does inevitably get updated.

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# 61 kbmnm247 @ 07/29/11 12:37 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	BLAME THYSELF. Later

Your business analogies do not hold water. There are glaring holes all over the place.

This is not 4 separate stores, yet it is one big store. They sell 4 products at the said store. They are also basically "forced" to keep the 4 products in stock, no matter how many sales they make of each, because it keeps the consumers happy and returning. Now, if you had a product that was 3% of your sales, but 25% of your prior resources/development/research, wouldn't you at least look into why it wasn't being purchased? Is it because all of your inventory is expired? Is it because all of that current inventory is miles behind competitors with the same inventory? Is it because your product really is just a cheap China knockoff? Because THAT is why it is 3%, the OF mode is stale, behind the times, and the only place that mode is an Online Franchise is on the in-game menus that EA displays. It is FAR from an actual FRANCHISE mode. FAR from it.

You are saying that they should just pour more money into the 97% sales because the 3% sales don't matter. So they are just going to have "rotting inventory" on the shelves while the 97% # can pretty much only go down over time? Why wouldn't they pour more R&D into why the 3% isn't selling since you already obviously have a huge market share with the other 97%?

# 62 kbmnm247 @ 07/29/11 12:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Good point, but mine seems to be escaping everyone... I am not at all concerned with why people don't play Online Franchise. What matters is that almost no-one does. The lowest THREE game modes account for a COMBINED 3% of the first 40 million games played. That's LOWER than the sales tax in most states. Furthermore, by many admissions, a lot of guys haven't purchased Madden in years. I don't see much logic in EA bending over backward for the consumer that isn't buying or playing the product. That said... I believe online Communities will revolutionize the way the millions of people who actually buy and play Madden will enjoy the game. If it is done well, it will remove all of the major issues most people have with online play. I'm not sure what effect it's going to have on people that don't buy or play the game. Til then, where are the guys playing the 3% who buy Madden and play Online Franchise. How do they feel? Later

As I've stated in another thread that for some reason the majority just fail to realize...

As you said, EA looked at the first 40 million games played as their barometer to who plays what modes. Just THINK about how flawed that is.

Let's go over a quick scenario, and you can see if I'm wrong with my assumptions.
There were almost 1 million copies sold in week one of Madden 11 release.
When you get home after purchasing madden, what do you play? Most likely it's either a quick match against the computer, a franchise game, or an online game against a random or a friend. Why would you come home and the first thing you play would be online franchise?
You would obviously want to practice, get used to the game, make sure all of your friends who would be in the OF have the game and are also used to the game, etc.

Also don't forget the hundreds of thousands of pirate gamers who still played online and counted in that original 40 million game sample and to me, it seems like if 3% are playing Online Franchise that is a BIG number, not a negligible one.

I'm not sure why this is glossed over? Honestly, do you expect the first 40 million games played (thats not that big of a # in all honesty) to be 50/50 split between OF/Online Ranked? 25/75? Even 10/90?

The fact remains that 3% # to me, means nothing to prove that OF isn't played. Did they ever release final #s after the year was over? Did they ever even investigate what that # would be after say 200 million games played online?

That would be like me releasing a car and saying that for the first 50 miles only 3% of users used their navigation system that in the end gave them wrong directions, but 97% of them used their headlights so we are going to pour all of our R&D on headlight improvements.

# 63 MMurda @ 07/29/11 01:23 PM

what ill say on this matter is if they need us to play an obvious half arse attempt at a online franch to tell them they should fix it, its no wonder they have so many unhappy present customers, past customers, possible future customers and is showing that they are indeed 100% responsible and def deserving of all the bad press and feelings that they get across the internet and media. this "logic" or "thought process" that EA uses to determine what they should work on is already flawed out the gate and anyone with half a brain knows this. i literally cant believe that there would be any argument on this at all from any of the great minds here at OS.

the 3% or whatever the true # is of those who played it CAN NOT and SHOULD NOT be used a sole indicator of anything. why? because the mode is not equal to any of the other full fledged finished and "working" modes. it was born to fail as it is unfinished out the gate.

how would u take any data from this, except to look at and say why is this # so low compared to the others? once u do that, the immediate response to that is to look at its possible flaws for reason...the biggest most obvious one is its incomplete and not a franchise as its listed as being. the next step should be EA saying "ok fellas, lets get it where it needs to be and complete it, then do further analysis to get real #'s that mean something". did they do that? NOPE...they proceeded to infuriate their customers by using that flawed 3% as a real reason, thus playing us (well educated customers) as fools, and further alienating its customer base with a shallow excuse that anyone could see thru in one sec.

until online franch equals the offline franch or is at least offering 80% of the offline franch offerings thus giving it a right to even be called online franch, can any data be used as a barometer to guage or come to any "real" conclusions...point blank period!!

THEN AND ONLY THEN, can they truly say nobodys playing it, so lets not waste any more time and R&D on it.

# 64 TWOSILK @ 07/29/11 02:15 PM

the question is this who builds something and only does it barebones, imagine getting a car with a emergency brake that didnt work because the car manufacturer said only 8% of car owners use this feature?? and when you wanted to use it, it didnt work properly, you would be outraged correct? the point is if you have the feature make it work or dont include it, how about madden take a number of games still playing online franchise, curious to what those numbers would be. and the reason online franchise got no play in the beginning of the cycle?? needed roster updates, and had to wait for the first patch, i can stand a game or two against randoms but when this game came out it had wayyyyyyyyyy too many issues to start a chise with. so of course no one played in the beginning. This is simple EA build it correctly or remove it, but dont put it in barebones and leave it the same.

# 65 jerryrice4949 @ 07/30/11 12:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by DaveDQ


	Good point. I think that's where the bulk of my frustration is. Two things that year were platformed that I considered a green light to buy the game (Online franchise and Pro-Tak). Both of them haven't been touched. Now you can argue that the new tackling system is another step but Pro-Tak isn't spoken of anymore.

Good point. What happened to pro-tak?

As for TNT I don't know if you are clueless or just being ridiculous. Either way you idea about playing a broken mode to slowly change EA is sad.

It is about money from what I hear. The communities thing is super cheap to implement.

Online Franchise for Madden would be EXTREMELY expensive. The amount of serve space and power that would be required for trades, salary cap, rookies and other franchise elements would be huge. NCAA had like 50,000 online dynasties started in the first couple weeks. Madden would have maybe 5 times that. Server space would cost a lot. I am sure EA decided to see if communities would placate people before having to invest millions more into serves and the equipment to go with.

# 66 Icarus2k9 @ 07/30/11 01:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ChaseB


	Some interviews are by text, but this one was my phone. So basically some allow follow-up questions and others do not -- yes, just depends on the medium. Seems like a fair enough question. I know that generally speaking they don't want to or will give specifics on that type of stuff, but it wouldn't hurt to ask. But just to be clear, the interview was about Online Communities, so I just didn't want to use that as a platform to "jump" a developer about online franchise stuff. So I more tacked on a question at the end to at least get a word about it.

Thanks for getting back to me on this. I can see why you don't want to derail the questioning, but if you know for a fact that this is the last question of an interview then there's no problem in taking it off the beaten track a little. I'm not asking you to trick someone, or ignore all the other stuff you ask to sensationalise one response at the end.

I'm a UK news journalist (may not be in two weeks thanks to job cuts, joy joy) and whenever someone mentions numbers we instantly ask for the details on those numbers. They refuse to give them? Just write they refused to give them, ask why and then write that too. Do you have an American version of a Freedom of Information request you can log with the EA press office to get these numbers? If your good relationship with EA is threatened by something as slight as pressing them over a few matters, you never had a good relationship to begin with.

I'm going to back up respectfully now and not tell you guys how to do your job, because you're already making sure the OS community is well informed and actually has a good glimpse behind the curtain (which is better than the rest of the gaming press combined). Take me asking you to press them on certain things as a compliment on how much good stuff you get already

# 67 smokeyvol @ 07/30/11 11:12 PM

Very lame excuse.

# 68 jerryrice4949 @ 07/31/11 12:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	JerryRice4949, Once again, my point is missed... All throughout this post I've mentioned two things: 1) Numbers are incredibly low for usage of Online Franchise 2) EA uses those numbers to determine where to allot their resources If communities is indeed less expensive, it requires less resources. Time, money, equipment, and developers are all resources that are used in accordance with the decisions EA makes early in the development cycle - all based on how we play the game. What we tell EA and have told EA since Online Franchise was added is that collectively, WE DON'T PLAY IT. For those fans that still want to point to NCAA as proof that the mode would get used seem to overlook that fact that Madden and NCAA have different target markets and VERY LITTLE OVERLAP of 10%. I also find that much of this argument for more people playing Madden's Online Franchise depends on what we imagine to be gamer habits while numbers - which are concrete - tell us otherwise. Given our actual gaming habits (not the "what if" numbers) it makes perfectly logical business sense to add communities to improve the mode millions of gamers play while tabling the other modes until later. Besides... According to your post, Communities seems to require less resources to improve the mode and it's usage exponentially by eliminating the most common objections to online play and offline franchise. Any theoretical increase in Online Franchise participation would be just that - THEORY. No one really knows how many Madden players will flock to Online Franchise once it gets the dev time it needs. But even if there are 5x as many games played as now, it's still probably going to be less than 10% of the total games played because the 3% we were quoted combines the three least used modes usage together... Too many resources + too few playing the mode = Update other things. Simple... But only when there's no emotional connection. I can't be the only one that sees the correlation... So dare I say again - If you like the idea of online franchise PLAY IT. Otherwise, it's painfully low usage numbers might be seen as a reason to pull the plug entirely... Personally, I'd rather have online PRACTICE mode 10x more than Online Franchise. Dare I say, it might get more play in it's 1st year than the past 3 years of online franchise combine (since we're throwing out baseless numbers and ignoring the real ones). Later

Actually it is you who are missing the point, as well as the guy shilling for the league manager software. Numbers for OF are not low. THE MODE DOES NOT EXIST. There is nothing in what EA calls OF to actually make it a franchise mode. EA knows it and everyone else who enjoys franchise play knows it. IT IS NOTHING MORE THAN A MULTI SEASON LEAGUE.

# 69 jeremym480 @ 07/31/11 01:01 AM

As I've always said... "if you build it, they will come". Just look at little brother for the perfect example.

As much as I hate the word, online team play and online communites are both straight gimmick's , IMO. The fact that they ignored franchise over those two is a downright disgrace.

# 70 jpdavis82 @ 07/31/11 01:22 AM

Watch the Ustream event from last week, they talked about this in detail. They didn't choose online communities over online franchise, they chose not to work on online franchise this year because they felt like they would rather wait a year like they did with offline franchise last year in order to give us a fully featured online franchise next year. I know even with that being said there are some of you that will still complain, but honestly you guys expect way too much to be added in a one year cycle. There's only so much they can add in one year and with all the additions they made this year, that means they can focus on these other things like online franchise, footplanting, and other minor additions(new halftime show, new weekly show for franchise, new commentary) next year. I know for a fact those presentation features are on their minds for next year, they talked about it in the Ustream event last week with Mike Young. I also know they are looking at some physics related stuff for gameplay, so just chill guys. We're going to get a greatly improved game this year and even more so next year, so just chill and enjoy the great game that Madden 12 will be, and by this time next year we'll have an even better game to play in Madden 13, until then we'll all be enjoying Madden 12.

There's much more to life than video games so everyone needs to calm down and enjoy the product that EA genuinely is trying to give us and improve for us.

# 71 jpdavis82 @ 07/31/11 01:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jeremym480


	As I've always said... "if you build it, they will come". Just look at little brother for the perfect example. As much as I hate the word, online team play and online communites are both straight gimmick's , IMO. The fact that they ignored franchise over those two is a downright disgrace.

How is giving us the best online gaming experience outside of online franchise mode a gimmick? Online communities is far from a gimmick, I don't think most people really understand what online communities even is. The only thing better for online gaming than communities would be tying it in with online franchise, other than that you can't get a better online gaming experience.

# 72 jpdavis82 @ 07/31/11 01:39 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Elements


	This whole feature merits no respect. Cheaters will always be around in every forum and room. People will cheat at all costs to get the satisfaction of a win. I'm thoroughly upset with EA, but we will make Online Franchise work regardless. My question is. How many people can be in a Community at once? Are they going to take away the 50 person restriction?

Yes they changed it from 50 to 2000, you can have up to 2000 people in a community and you can join up to 5 communities

# 73 jpdavis82 @ 07/31/11 01:42 AM

By the way am I the only person on here who never plays Online Dynasty or Online Franchise? I really don't understand the big fuss about this. I play online head to head, offline franchise, and MUT and that has been more than enough to keep me busy with Madden.

I understand how potentially great Online Dynasty/Franchise could be but to me it just sounds way too time consuming and I don't have that much time to invest in it with work, college and other stuff going on.

# 74 MMurda @ 08/01/11 10:24 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	I understand you are upset but you are making assumptions that are way out of left field. Your previous post said it was about money... That is 100% false. As DAvis stated above and others have stated in here, it is about time constraints. It took more than 1 dev cycle to get offline franchise to what you will see this year. Do you really think it is that easy? How do you know they haven't already started on online franchise for Madden 13? You don't know that and neither do I. Online franchise was not the priority this year due to lack of usage...end of story.

have u forgotten that EA put their own foot in their mouth when they stated in madden 10 that it was easier to update due to being server based? you're right it wasnt a priority this yr('12)....but ur forgetting that it wasnt a priority in last yr('11) or the yr before that either('10). we know it cant be done in 1 dev cycle...but we're looking at 3 right now...2 of which theyve already had the tracks laid. NO EXCUSE!

now take that 3 yrs of development time, look at them tell us from their own mouths how easy it is to update, look at how they have added 3 new modes from scratch since then(MUT, online community, and 3vs3), look how they already have a good base to start with in ofranch and still skipped it, then realize why ppl are mad before you be so quick to blow ppls frustration off.

i havent bought madden since 10. im holding out this yr as well. offline franch fix is great, but im waiting to experience the fun im getting in a fully featured and completed online dynasty. until madden can deliver what it's lil brother ncaa can, ill buy the more thorough and fully featured title of football.

# 75 Clonefan84 @ 08/01/11 10:38 AM

Not sure if this was said or not, but I find it comical that they won't improve online franchise mode because no one is playing it....

Hello...no one is playing it because it needs to be improved! If EA could make online franchise as deep as offline franchise, I'd be willing to bet that online franchise would be the most used online feature in the game.

# 76 Clonefan84 @ 08/01/11 11:04 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by TNT713


	Um... The mode exists and very few people are playing it - just as the numbers suggest. They may not play because it doesn't operate like a Franchise Mode is expected to function. Regardless of whether it's a fully functional Franchise mode or not - it rarely gets played. We could talk about the semantics of what Online Franchise means - but there's still not many people playing it. We could talk about how much it missing - still not many people are playing it. We could talk about the merits of EA decision to table Online Franchise for another year - still very few people playing it. We could talk about what would make the mode better - still... Almost NOBODY PLAYS IT. So while it seems I'm missing the point on the semantic end, some of you are missing my point on the reality end. OF can't lay claim to a full 3% because it shares that tiny percentage with 2 other modes to COMBINE for 3%. The idea that this mode would have vast appeal if this or that matters not - the reality is not many people play it. That is and has been my only point...

I just don't understand why you would be making that "one and only point"

People are not playing online franchise mode not because it's not popular. People aren't playing it because it's not good. Jerryrice is right, it has become nothing more than a multi-season league. There is absolutely nothing in there that even makes it worth calling a franchise. No salaries, no pre-season, nothing. It's just a league that follows the real life schedule that has rosters that users are free to do with whatever they please.

Guess my point it sure, no one was playing online franchise last year, I understand that. But maybe if they actually made it deep and much like the offline version, then people would play it. It's really why hardly anyone played online franchises here on OS. Because no one wanted to do all that crazy extra work. It's something EA needs to have done in game. NCAA was able to do it, I just don't understand why Madden can't either.

# 77 HoardKing @ 08/01/11 12:06 PM

That is a complete BS arguement. Plenty of people play Online franchise and schedueling has nothing to do with adding a salary, being able customize players or any of the other things that need to be addressed in the online franchise. Just more EA laziness b/c they have know competition. 2k Please get it together the Gamers sake.

# 78 jyoung @ 08/01/11 12:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	online franchise is NOT broken. It works just fine with what is there, it is not unplayable or bug filled. It may not be up to your standards but the game mode itself works just fine.

Incorrect.

Playoff tiebreakers are broken. This is a major problem that can cause people to have an entire season go down the tubes because the game couldn't figure out how to break a tie properly.

The issue has been around since Madden 10 and still hasn't been addressed.

# 79 dkp23 @ 08/01/11 12:56 PM

Circles and circles we go.

- not enough play online chise

- nobody plays because it sucks and needa to get improved.

Whatever the case may be, the community is asking for improvements and if the online franchise had full features, those that dont play online chise will play online chise.

I would like to know the stats of how many unique ids joined a league at least once. That would be a better gage of online chise interest. Not farfetched to say majority of people tried online chise and then dropped after getting tired of a stale feature. I wonder if the stats were taken at release or in the middle or end of football season

As anybody can tell and this goes back to last season before m11 released, the fans are askung for improvements. If ea is listening then they will improve. I think ea is incapable of actually developing a full system and leveraging mlm so they can focus on new gimmicks that will attempt new buyers.

# 80 MMurda @ 08/01/11 01:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM


	To each their own man. I know what you are saying but your logic is flawed... "They won't update the game mode because no one plays it so therefore I won't purchase or play it", seems like you are part of the problem rather than part of the solution.

if u wanna ignore the real problem and call me part of the problem due to skipping out on buying the last 2yrs of madden and buying the college equivalent and playing that game and online dyn mode til the next one drops since '09, so be it. the real problem is the developers using flawed logic and taking analysis from an unfinished mode and twisting it to get them off the hook for when they made poor decisions and upset the fanbase by neglecting it for 3 dev cycles.

if EA has half a brain, they cant possibly be ignoring ncaa online dynasty success since '09 under their own roof. but you're in la-la land believing that they have done just that, and really believes nobody plays online franch because of no interest and the 3% nonsense theyve force fed u and hoped would go over your head.

you're taking the stance that EA only knows what we the consumers tell them. they shouldnt need me or anyone to play it to know that the effort they put in on the mode is awful and they have a horribly incomplete mode. their own game has a working offline franchise for comparison. you're telling me EA is so stupid that they have no clue their own modes are not equal online and offline and that its not worthy of even being called online franchise? and that most likely this is the reason it sucks and nobody wants to play?

let me put it to u exactly how it is from their so called "point of view".

EA speaks: "we heard all your cries and we know franchise was neglected and sucked for years, so now we're finally putting in work to appease the fans cuz this is what yall want, a full fledged and detailed franchise. this is gonna be great for all and everyone will love the new expanded rosters, IR, scouting changes, free agency, blah blah!"

"....but we know yall have no want for this to actually work online with friends like that ncaa dynasty that everyone clamors for like rabid animals...ya know guys, thats college football and college fans like playing the game of football with friends by the boatloads. BUT...we know nfl guys dont like playing the same game with different teams with friends."

GIMME A BREAK

and this is all coming from me, a guy who was all set to preorder and buy '12 until the hammer was dropped that they did absolutely no work...not even just make it where rosters update normally and put in a cap and trade logic just to tide us over. with just that effort, i wouldve purchased.

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Online Communities Took Precedence Over Online Franchise in Madden NFL 12