Madden 12 News Post

Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

02:38 PM - March 31, 2011 by RaychelSnr

With video game baseball season underway, it's the perfect time to make this analogy What realistic hitting would be to baseball games, realistic line play would be to football games -- unplayable for 95 percent of gamers.

To put things in perspective, a hitter at the MLB level has less than .25 seconds to judge a pitch's speed, location and decide whether or not to swing.

How Hard is it to Hit a Baseball?

Hitting major league pitching is so difficult, that succeeding 30 percent of the time is considered successful enough to earn a multi-million dollar contract.

NFL quarterbacks have more time to make decisions than MLB hitters, but with so much more data to take in, a NFL quarterback�s job is arguably the toughest in pro sports.

Read More - Why Line Play WIll Never Be Realistic in Football Games

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Member Comments

# 1 Jarodd21 @ 03/31/11 02:46 PM

Thats why I have my CPUs pass rush cranked up to 100 on my sliders because I feel like I shouldn't have that much time in the pocket.. QBs don't get alot of time like that in the league. I have just enough time to make all my reads and make the throw and I produce great passing stats in my franchise.. But this does seem to be a big deal for alot of people who like 5 seconds or more in the pocket to scan the field. Good interview BTW.

# 2 Rayp @ 03/31/11 02:47 PM

Nice write up, it is true that was one of the complaints with backbreaker people whined but that was a accurate portrayal lol in real life you dont drop back 7 yards and wait 4 solid seconds and make a delivery

# 3 mvb34 @ 03/31/11 02:51 PM

You may great points!! I wish EA would make it realistic anyway..

# 4 Hooe @ 03/31/11 02:59 PM

Numbers aside, there's no reason for EA to not give us the ability to make the passing game that hard if we want to. Options are the name of the game.

Understandably at the baseline difficulty there should be significant leeway to allow the game to have some pick-up-and-play ability and so it's not an exercise in futility; they're in the business of making video games, and the games they make have to have widespread appeal so that even those who don't enjoy football might enjoy Madden. However, that's no reason for EA to not develop more realistic AI routines that play out for gamers who enjoy a more difficult and more realistic challenge. The stated mantras of the company - "it's in the game", "everything you see on Sunday" - obligate them to as much.

# 5 Dashdagreat @ 03/31/11 03:00 PM

Its "realistic" in 2k8... im just saying...

# 6 Jarodd21 @ 03/31/11 03:05 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	I don't agree with this at all. First, difficulty levels can handle this problem perfectly. Neuter the pass rush for the lower difficultly levels, and for the highest difficulty levels, make the pass-rush realistic. That way, the CPU wouldn't have to cheat to make the game difficult at the All-madden level. The game will be difficult enough with only 1-3 seconds to get rid of the football. I would love for the dline to get to the QB in 3 seconds or less most of the time. I'd have no trouble adjusting, and defensively I'd be a monster. Also, the advantage that gamers have over NFL QBs is the Bird's eye view that Madden provides. In Backbreaker, the way the camera was set up, and the configuration of the controls, made it impractical to get rid of the ball in 3 seconds or less. In Madden we have the bird's eye view; it's a lot easier to see the field. And you're wrong about no football having realistic game-play. APF had realistic game-play. There were times when Reggie White would sack me in under 2 seconds, but that didn't happen every single play as it didn't happen every single play in reality. I'm sorry, did R. White average 15 sacks a game ? Reggie White was held at bay sometimes.

Thats true.. Its easy to get the CPU to have an intense pass rush but its definitely harder for the USER on all-madden without blitzing.

# 7 d11king @ 03/31/11 03:11 PM

I'm not sure how I feel about this article, but I do love it and it makes sense, I just hate the fact the video games have to dumb down certain things for the 'casual users' for example, the QB Vision. IMO the QB vision was the greatest 'feature' or whatever you call it Madden ever implemented. It was realistic and fun, on offense, if I have a player like Michael Vick my vision isn't going to be like Tom Brady's so I just can't magically throw an on-point pass to a wide receiver I'm not even looking at. And defensively, corners and safety's, more so safety's are watching the QB's eyes on defense, which is what the user would have been doing had this still been in effect.

But Madden doesn't want realism in there game, this plays like the NFL version of NBA Jam and 'some' simulation so the 9-15 year olds enjoy it. So I agree that this would never make it into Madden, but until they make vast improvements, they've lost one customer and I'm sure they dont care. One person doesn't effect them, but it's quite a shame that Madden 2011 feels like Madden 2005 with updated rosters and jerseys and 2 new features.

# 8 jyoung @ 03/31/11 03:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	did R. White average 15 sacks a game ? Reggie White was held at bay sometimes.

Did Reggie White go against a "generic" offensive line every game in the NFL?

No, but he does in APF 2K8, because no one online uses "legend" offensive linemen. Why don't people use legend OL? Because a "generic" OL can hold "gold" Reggie White to 2 - 3 sacks a game.

A gold WR will run by a "generic" CB every play in APF 2K8.

But a gold DE like Reggie White beats a generic OL maybe two or three times a game if you're lucky.

Reggie White should average 15 sacks a game against a generic offensive line.

# 9 Senator Palmer @ 03/31/11 03:14 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jarodd21


	Thats true.. Its easy to get the CPU to have an intense pass rush but its definitely harder for the USER on all-madden without blitzing.

Here, here. I've seen plenty of realistic line play in Madden: interior linemen penetrating, elite DE's beating tackles off the edge on 3rd and long, the problem is it's the CPU that's doing it. When it's my turn to play defense, I still see my interior linemen get bowled over and my edge rushers rarely, rarely ever beat a tackle with a quick move to free himself and if he doesn't win with that first move then he never attempts a counter move; it just turns into a shoving match as the tackle pushes him upfield.

# 10 Nab_Impervious_XII @ 03/31/11 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LiquorLogic


	Neuter the pass rush for the lower difficultly levels, and for the highest difficulty levels, make the pass-rush realistic. That way, the CPU wouldn't have to cheat to make the game difficult at the All-madden level.

Great idea.

# 11 catcatch22 @ 03/31/11 03:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashdagreat


	Its "realistic" in 2k8... im just saying...

Actually it is. Going against Deacon Jones without a comparable legend Olineman means sacks in 3 seconds or less. Guys like Dexter Manley and other pass rush specialists in the game with speed can leave you literally just 3 seconds to get a throw off if you don't prepare for it.

The problem is it is very inconsistent, I guess 2k did that way so people would not get too frustrated.

# 12 boxboy99 @ 03/31/11 03:20 PM

Isn't 2-3 sacks a game pretty good. Even though the lineman is generic in APF isn't he still suppose to be professional. Even against the biggest scrubs in the NFL a 2-3 sack day for White would be considered pretty darn good.

# 13 catcatch22 @ 03/31/11 03:21 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by wEEman33


	Did Reggie White go against a "generic" offensive line every game in the NFL? No, but he does in APF 2K8, because no one online uses "legend" offensive linemen. Why don't people use legend OL? Because a "generic" OL can hold "gold" Reggie White to 2 - 3 sacks a game. A gold WR will run by a "generic" CB every play in APF 2K8. But a gold DE like Reggie White beats a generic OL maybe two or three times a game if you're lucky. Reggie White should average 15 sacks a game against a generic offensive line.

You did not account for stamina. 2k gave defensive lineman no stamina, but all their moves are charged moves which is heavily dependent on stamina. Thus they tire out over the course of the game twice as fast as any other player in the game.

# 14 jyoung @ 03/31/11 03:25 PM

In APF 2K8:

A generic LB will fail to tackle a gold RB 95% of the time.

A generic DB will fail to cover a gold WR 95% of the time.

So why, too, doesn't a generic OL fail to block a gold DE 95% of the time?

Because 2K knows gamers couldn't handle the frusturation, and so, the game is tuned to boost the generic OL where the OL succeeds at a higher rate than other generics at other positions on the field.

# 15 huskerwr38 @ 03/31/11 03:28 PM

I think part of the problem in Madden and NCAA is the fact that wide receivers do not run their routes at a realistic speed. I've run a bunch of practice plays and have timed WR running their routes. It takes around 3 and a half seconds for a WR with 90 speed to run a simple 10 and in route with coverage. They do not get off the line quickly enough, they get jammed to easy. So the QB is just left hanging, which is why you need more time to pass. If passing was route passed then you could have a realistic pass rush.

# 16 Senator Palmer @ 03/31/11 03:28 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by boxboy99


	Isn't 2-3 sacks a game pretty good. Even though the lineman is generic in APF isn't he still suppose to be professional. Even against the biggest scrubs in the NFL a 2-3 sack day for White would be considered pretty darn good.

Not only that, but on the low end, 2 sacks a game over 16 games would give him 32 on the season; a number which no one has come close to since sacks became an official stat.

There has to be some sort of realistic baseline for even the worse players in a video game.

# 17 Blzer @ 03/31/11 03:37 PM

The problem with Backbreaker before though was that the offensive line sucked. I would gladly take faster running players if we could just strengthen the line, but it just didn't seem to happen. Now the O-Line is rather impenetrable, which is a bit weirder than it was before.

The other problem was the QB just didn't react when I needed him to in order to get the throw off.

# 18 Jarodd21 @ 03/31/11 03:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Senator Palmer


	Here, here. I've seen plenty of realistic line play in Madden: interior linemen penetrating, elite DE's beating tackles off the edge on 3rd and long, the problem is it's the CPU that's doing it. When it's my turn to play defense, I still see my interior linemen get bowled over and my edge rushers rarely, rarely ever beat a tackle with a quick move to free himself and if he doesn't win with that first move then he never attempts a counter move; it just turns into a shoving match as the tackle pushes him upfield.

Hahaha! Yep thats excatly what happens and I have the CPUs pass block turned down to 0. Its a little better but this still happens..

# 19 TDenverFan @ 03/31/11 04:27 PM

I agree, however, EA makes it too unrealistic. Without cranking up sliders, I can have a good 5-10 seconds in the pocket. That is flat out unrealistic with anything more than a two man rush.

# 20 poopoop @ 03/31/11 04:29 PM

This article is misleading.

I don't believe the reason line play isn't realistic is because it'd make the game too difficult. I believe the reason is that EA is just unable to replicate line play in their games. Has to do with the fact that things like physics, momentum, height and weight not working correctly.

Honestly if we had a completely 100% true to life game it'd be incredibly difficult. For example think about playcalling. No one on these forums is going to outscheme/outcoach Bill Belichick so the Patriots would be near impossible to beat. That's not the reason the CPU's playcalling logic makes no sense. EA isn't saying to themselves, "Hey we don't wanna make the game too difficult so let's make the CPU call a HB draw on 4th and 11!"

At least I hope not...

EA def has motivation to make to make the game accessible to as many people as possible, but I don't think that should be used as a blanket excuse for their inability to program realistic gameplay.

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