Madden NFL 11 News Post

Madden NFL 11 Hints From EA (IGN)

11:18 PM - March 9, 2010 by splff3000

IGN has posted some Madden NFL 11 hints from the EA Season Opener.

Quote:


	"The average game took 63 minutes in Madden NFL 10, despite the fact that players were only playing football for 17 of those minutes. EA Sports promised that they'll deliver a faster experience in Madden NFL 11 for those who want to sit down and play for a few minutes and then get up and move on to the next activity. They gave no indication of how this would be accomplished, but if I was a betting man, I'd wager that they'll be adding a "hurry up" option to the list of presentation settings similar to what we see in this year's crop of MLB titles. Another interesting factoid had to do with playcalling. Madden NFL 10 included 330 plays. The average user used 13 of them. I'm not exactly sure how they're going to get people to explore the playbook, but some sort of simplification is clearly needed."

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Member Comments

# 121 Jump @ 03/11/10 10:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	I like the idea of more contrived counters for sure. I know football is random and not black and white, but anyone who has spent a fair amount of time online knows that players can bank on a handful of tactics to work for an entire game. There isn't much "mixing in" of plays. Personally I like to think I'm the opposite of that type of gamer. I'm one who tries not to call the same plays more than twice. It has obvious advantages. The first advantage being that the user controlled pass defender legitimately has no idea what's coming and is therefore stripped of his inherent advantage to CPU players: he doesn't know what's coming either. That being said, it gets very frustrating see the PA flats work consistently against blitzes when the user isn't setting up those plays with run calls. In reality, defenders should be obliterating the QB if he's trying to pull off playaction without actually running the ball. On defense, many people find 1 or 2 blitzes that get through consistently and call it a day. One trick ponies are just everywhere in ranked matches. These guys bank on someone now knowing a basic counter to their strategy. Where I think things get really sad is when you see guys who play this game for money. They play just like the ranked lobby kids: 1 base play and audibling/hot routing from it. What does this tell us: It's really the best way to play if your main goal is to win at all costs. That's not good. That needs to change. There's clear logical reasons why teams don't come out in the same play every play. That logic needs to be reflected in Madden in some way. To be completely blunt, Madden becomes a pretty terrible experience once the chess match is stripped from it. That's what some of the top players do. Madden needs to learn from real time strategy games. Promoting smart decisions, unpredictability, and an overall engaging chess match is the reason football is successful in real life, and is exactly where Madden needs to go to compete with FPS in the competitive game arena. I'd like to see mechanisms within the game that force varied playcalling. Something as simple as that would add so much to the game. Nothing kills Madden (or any video game nonetheless) more than people "gaming the game". It sucks the life out of everything you intend to do in a game. It becomes a moral battle. It's you playing a guy willing to mess with the AI for an advantage while you won't. I'd rather have the moral battle be gone. Interestingly, Tecmo Super Bowl's simple concept of "guessing plays" eliminates money plays and repetitive playcalling right then and there. Tecmo does more with it's 8 plays than many Madden games do with their 300. There's a lesson to be learned there, guys. Rant over. I'd love to hear opinions on this.

Nice post.

On the counters, I wouldn't want a blunt system where each offensive play has a partner defensive play that stops it every time.

First they've gotta get the basics down, like flat zones covering the flats, hook zone defenders reacting to receivers moving into their zone,etc. They've just gotta make basic football logic translate to Madden.

Things like - when you bring a safety up in to the box, he shouldn't be able to read pass, turn around, and get back to knock down a pass to a streaking WR. Stuff like that really hurts the chess game.

# 122 roadman @ 03/11/10 11:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by hatisback


	No offense, as I agree with your post.....but some of the things that were supposed to be in last year wasn't so how are we supposed to label these things when they get released as credible?

No offense taken as that has been gone over many times in this forum. Ian explained that some of the blogs that were written for whatever reason didn't make the final cut.

I don't think they purposely lied in their blogs, but again, if people want to believe that, your choice.

It's up to you and everyone else what you want believe from here on out until the game comes out.

I'll just take it piece by piece until the game comes out.

# 123 KBLover @ 03/12/10 12:59 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Jump


	On the counters, I wouldn't want a blunt system where each offensive play has a partner defensive play that stops it every time. First they've gotta get the basics down, like flat zones covering the flats, hook zone defenders reacting to receivers moving into their zone,etc. They've just gotta make basic football logic translate to Madden.

Exactly.

I would really really hate a hard counter system in a sports game.

# 124 KBLover @ 03/12/10 02:05 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Joeyland


	You wanna still be stuck in the Summer of 07 with your baseballs games development? How was MLB the show in 08 compared to now?

Don't know about 08, but 06 was solid, imo, and RTTS hasn't actually changed all that much between 06 and 09. CL still suck to play as and you still can't be a mid-/setup reliever and knuckleballs are still like OMGLOLWhatWasThat?

'07 was...OOTP7 (or 8, one of those) - pretty solid as well. I still play OOTP6 which was 2004 I believe. Shoot, I play Baseball Pro '98 still. Got a Win98 emulation program, just so I can keep playing it.

So - if baseball was still in '07 - I'd be fine.

Heck, I was playing MVP 05 with the 07 Mod...and MVP is a couple years older than The Show.

# 125 Cryolemon @ 03/12/10 05:51 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwolf


	This nonsense is why i hope the NFL lockout happens so that they can tear up this stupid EA-NFL contract. Say what you want but 2k is for real sim players while Madden only cares about people who don't know anything about the real game of football.

Why will a lockout "tear up this stupid EA-NFL contract."? I don't see why that would happen at all. Madden would still get made, hell there might even still be NFL games if the owners want to get replacement players.

# 126 randers @ 03/12/10 08:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Here's why the average person uses just a handful of plays. http://www.youtube.com/user/versuz2#p/u/170/Q24KR9dQl8I Adaptive AI where were you on this vid?

looooolz. you know you have a brain. so you're supposed to be the adaptive AI.

# 127 Critical Kills @ 03/12/10 08:31 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by edwolf


	This nonsense is why i hope the NFL lockout happens so that they can tear up this stupid EA-NFL contract. Say what you want but 2k is for real sim players while Madden only cares about people who don't know anything about the real game of football.

Then what are you doing in the Madden forums?? I guess you don't know anything about the real game of football if you're here eh?

# 128 J Masta J @ 03/12/10 09:47 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	Then what are you doing in the Madden forums?? I guess you don't know anything about the real game of football if you're here eh?

He said Madden only cares about people who don't know football, not that only people who don't know football visit the Madden forum.

Apples to oranges.

# 129 BezO @ 03/12/10 10:17 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	Personally I like to think I'm the opposite of that type of gamer. I'm one who tries not to call the same plays more than twice. It has obvious advantages. The first advantage being that the user controlled pass defender legitimately has no idea what's coming and is therefore stripped of his inherent advantage to CPU players: he doesn't know what's coming either.

I'm OK with plays being called several times over. NFL teams do that all the time, but they usually mix up the formations. I'd guess Indy runs outside zone 10 times/game. Philly runs screens all day. Dallas runs the delayed lead probably 8-10 times/game. Teams have staples and run them well and often. Nothing wrong with that IMO.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	On defense, many people find 1 or 2 blitzes that get through consistently and call it a day. One trick ponies are just everywhere in ranked matches. These guys bank on someone now knowing a basic counter to their strategy.

I blame this on the playbooks. I think people would run more offensive plays if there were more plays in the playbook and they were better organized. And I think tiering the defensive playbook would give gamers all the tools they need to stop plays.

We need better adaptive AI.

And we need a system that rewards setting up plays. For example, defenders should be more susceptible to play action if the offense has been succesfully rushing the ball. Draws should work better if an offense has been passing well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	Where I think things get really sad is when you see guys who play this game for money. They play just like the ranked lobby kids: 1 base play and audibling/hot routing from it. What does this tell us: It's really the best way to play if your main goal is to win at all costs. That's not good. That needs to change. There's clear logical reasons why teams don't come out in the same play every play. That logic needs to be reflected in Madden in some way.

IMO, this is nothing more than a style of play, similar to a hurry up offense. Again, I think the answer is tiering the defensive playbook so gamers have the tools to counter this.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	I'd like to see mechanisms within the game that force varied playcalling. Something as simple as that would add so much to the game. Nothing kills Madden (or any video game nonetheless) more than people "gaming the game". It sucks the life out of everything you intend to do in a game. It becomes a moral battle. It's you playing a guy willing to mess with the AI for an advantage while you won't. I'd rather have the moral battle be gone.

Again, I think more defensive optioins would force more offensive variety.

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	Interestingly, Tecmo Super Bowl's simple concept of "guessing plays" eliminates money plays and repetitive playcalling right then and there. Tecmo does more with it's 8 plays than many Madden games do with their 300. There's a lesson to be learned there, guys.

I'd hate a counter system like Tecmo since it wouldn't involve tiered defensive play calling. Having a defensive "play" that counters an offensive play is not football. Defense is so much more than that and needs to be more than that, not only to compete with the offense, but to make defense fun, involved & dynamic

# 130 BezO @ 03/12/10 10:25 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashad19


	No disrespect taken Bezo...I played college ball except on the offensive side of the ball. I'm familiar with tiered play calling but assumed that position audibles was basically the same thing with more work involved. Thus everyone requesting tiered play calling was mostly looking to save time. Anyway, thanks for the quick knowledge session.

Cool. I'm not sure of everyone's level of football knowledge, and I tend to respond to post and talk to everyone else at the same time.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashad19


	I would love to have tiered play calling in Madden 11 but if there is no gap control, stunts/delayed blitzes are not functional, and players don't defend their zones then we are back to square one with respect to people only using a handful of plays. As things stand right now there are too many game-play issues that hinder our play calls. I don't call certain plays because I know no matter what the circumstances are they will not work ever.

I'll add contain AI for every defensive call.

But yeah, it all goes together. We need better defensive assignments/AI along with more dynamic defenses. And they can't forget the animations, interaction & physics.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Rashad19


	I'm not for the Tecmo Bowl style of countering your opponent. But I am for your defense or offense recognizing a play that has been ran 10 times and beating/stuffing it!

We definitely need adaptive AI. But it still needs to take into account certain things. I don't mind a play working often if it's set up well. Varying formations should play a part as well as ratings.

# 131 BezO @ 03/12/10 10:38 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boregard


	You know why everyone uses the Hitstsick for every tackle??? Because there is no button tackle that gives you a better chance at making a tackle. I just played an two entire games trying to just use the run into the guy or dive button only and I swear I missed more tackles than if I were to hitstick all game long. And I mean situations were I had the ball carrier squared up and was in perfect position to make a tackle = just stupid!!! The idea should be that if you are "playing it safe" you should have a better success rate when making tackles - but in M10 that does not play out!!! This is something that really annoys me about EA - there is no sense when playing M10 of risk vs reward in your play calls or decision making during the game play!!!

We need:

-wrap/grab tackle - it should be the safest tackle, yet maybe allow for more yac
-aggresive tackle - it should stop ball carreirs in their tracks, be good for goal line, short yardage and situations where the ball carrier or WR can't see the tackler, but be more susceptible to jukes, spins, ect
-low tackle - it should be for smaller and/or bad tackling defenders, and it needs to also be more susceptible to jukes, spins, ect.
-desparation/dive tackle - it should be the least effective, mainly used for trying to trip up ball carriers nearly out of reach

And of course, the success rate and animations should be based on ratings & context.

# 132 Critical Kills @ 03/12/10 11:16 AM

when you say "we need" are you saying we need a button or button combo to pick which type of tackle ourselves or we need an animation that is triggered automatically?

# 133 BezO @ 03/12/10 11:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	when you say "we need" are you saying we need a button or button combo to pick which type of tackle ourselves or we need an animation that is triggered automatically?

Both.

At minimum, we need a tackle button, one that triggers a wrap tackle. It's the most common in the NFL and doesn't exist in Madden.

But the animations should be contextual, accounting for angle, size & ratings.

I know there aren't enough buttons for 4 types of tackles. I'd settle for the dive button becoming the basic tackle button, triggering contextual animations... wrap/grab tackles, cut tackles, ect, and the hit stick becoming the aggressive/desparation tackle button, again triggering contextual animations... smashing hits, diving tackles, trip ups, ect.

# 134 Critical Kills @ 03/12/10 11:54 AM

You know i'd like to extrapolate on what you said about goal line and short yardage. I'd like to see a clear difference in urgency and method of tackling when it's short yardage and/or goal line situations. As it is now I don't see it. If they could add a sense of urgency and more of a swarm to the ball in short yardage we'd also see the occasional play where it's 4th and inches near midfield and a running back makes it past the initial line somehow and runs 50 yards for a TD. As it is now that is nearly non-existent.

It really all goes back to the way the AI is programmed. The players in the real NFL are more aware of down and distance in general and play accordingly. They tackle someone completely different at the 7 yard mark when it's 3rd and 23 (they stand them up, do a safe tackle, wait for teammate) then they do when it's a 7 yard gain and it's 3rd and 7 (uptmost urgency to bring down the ball carrier and drive him backwards).

In the game the players seemingly tackle in both situatons exactly the same. That's wh it's so frustrating to see someone get a 7 yard gain, break a tackle on 3rd and 19 and scamper for the first down. Yes it happens but not as much as it does in Madden. And on the flip side there is nothing more frustrating than it being 3rd and 7 and the guy runs up and actually drags the ball carrier forward a yard or two for the first down.

I will say this aspect of the game has gotten much better since the PS2 days, especially with the dragging offensive players forward for 4 yards like we all saw so much in the PS2 days, but the bottom line is it's still not where it needs to be. Bottom line, we need much, much, MUCH more situational awareness from our virtual teammates.

# 135 BezO @ 03/12/10 12:15 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	You know i'd like to extrapolate on what you said about goal line and short yardage. I'd like to see a clear difference in urgency and method of tackling when it's short yardage and/or goal line situations. As it is now I don't see it. If they could add a sense of urgency and more of a swarm to the ball in short yardage we'd also see the occasional play where it's 4th and inches near midfield and a running back makes it past the initial line somehow and runs 50 yards for a TD. As it is now that is nearly non-existent.

Agreed! With the extra effort on goal line & short yardage plays, I'd also like to see defenses more susceptible to the play action pass. Actually, I'd like some control over my guys selling out to stop the run and/or looking for pass, but combine it with awareness ratings.

I'd also like to see different blocking interaction on goal line & short yardage plays. On runs & play action, o-linemen almost always submarine block, and d-linemen are trying to stay low as well.

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	It really all goes back to the way the AI is programmed. The players in the real NFL are more aware of down and distance in general and play accordingly. They tackle someone completely different at the 7 yard mark when it's 3rd and 23 (they stand them up, do a safe tackle, wait for teammate) then they do when it's a 7 yard gain and it's 3rd and 7 (uptmost urgency to bring down the ball carrier and drive him backwards). In the game the players seemingly tackle in both situatons exactly the same. That's wh it's so frustrating to see someone get a 7 yard gain, break a tackle on 3rd and 19 and scamper for the first down. Yes it happens but not as much as it does in Madden. And on the flip side there is nothing more frustrating than it being 3rd and 7 and the guy runs up and actually drags the ball carrier forward a yard or two for the first down. I will say this aspect of the game has gotten much better since the PS2 days, especially with the dragging offensive players forward for 4 yards like we all saw so much in the PS2 days, but the bottom line is it's still not where it needs to be. Bottom line, we need much, much, MUCH more situational awareness from our virtual teammates.

Agreed! It needs to spill over to the offense too... RBs putting more effort out near the goal line & first down markers, ball carriers trying to get out of bounds, QBs looking down field more, ect. This is all CPU controlled stuff of course.

# 136 KBLover @ 03/12/10 12:39 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ODogg


	You know i'd like to extrapolate on what you said about goal line and short yardage. I'd like to see a clear difference in urgency and method of tackling when it's short yardage and/or goal line situations. As it is now I don't see it. If they could add a sense of urgency and more of a swarm to the ball in short yardage we'd also see the occasional play where it's 4th and inches near midfield and a running back makes it past the initial line somehow and runs 50 yards for a TD. As it is now that is nearly non-existent. It really all goes back to the way the AI is programmed. The players in the real NFL are more aware of down and distance in general and play accordingly. They tackle someone completely different at the 7 yard mark when it's 3rd and 23 (they stand them up, do a safe tackle, wait for teammate) then they do when it's a 7 yard gain and it's 3rd and 7 (uptmost urgency to bring down the ball carrier and drive him backwards). In the game the players seemingly tackle in both situatons exactly the same. That's wh it's so frustrating to see someone get a 7 yard gain, break a tackle on 3rd and 19 and scamper for the first down. Yes it happens but not as much as it does in Madden. And on the flip side there is nothing more frustrating than it being 3rd and 7 and the guy runs up and actually drags the ball carrier forward a yard or two for the first down. I will say this aspect of the game has gotten much better since the PS2 days, especially with the dragging offensive players forward for 4 yards like we all saw so much in the PS2 days, but the bottom line is it's still not where it needs to be. Bottom line, we need much, much, MUCH more situational awareness from our virtual teammates.

Dear EA AI programmers,

Please read this and post it on your monitors at all times.
Keep as a reminder of one of the things you can do to really improve the game.

Sincerely,
AI player lover, KBLover.

# 137 Jukeman @ 03/12/10 03:07 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kjcheezhead


	Wasn't adaptive AI put in place to make gamers use their whole playbook? Madden 11 is showing every sign that it just wants to bring in new/casual gamers. Most people who liked Madden 10 still felt it was just a step in the right direction and I don't see the leap from Madden 10-11 being that great right now.

Bingo, Im done with this..

"And thats all I have to say about that"

# 138 kwpit79 @ 03/12/10 05:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by CreatineKasey


	76% of Madden gamers play online. There's your answer offline franchise guys. It's not a big* priority to them.*

Wait, is that 76% who play exclusively online? I mean, I have an online account, but have played maybe 3 games combined online. I'm sure a lot of people play both is what I'm getting at, so it should still be a high priority.

# 139 Valdarez @ 03/12/10 07:59 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Boregard


	Where the hell are we getting 76% of Madden gamers play online??? I know a ton of Madden players and while all of them have played online a time or two at least, 95% of them are Offline 'chise ballers, because of the rampant BS you encounter during online play. I know 15 guys who don't even have their system plugged in to online. They switch out the computer just long enough to get roster updates and patch downloads. I play in two multi-user franchises and none of those guys play online with any consistency. We tried in the beginning to do the online franchise, but got annoyed with some of the issues with it, so we started over completely offline. Game play improvements benefit both sets, but sales will be most affected in a positive manner when franchise mode is EA's focus - you can bet on it!!!

It's 76% of Madden gamers have an online connection, not that they play Madden online. I read it the way you did as well the first time.

# 140 Jump @ 03/13/10 05:48 AM

Valdarez has it. The 76% number refers to the anyone who has ever been online while playing Madden.

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