News Post

Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

05:19 PM - May 7, 2009 by RaychelSnr

MLB 09: The Show has been out for over a month, and many baseball gaming enthusiasts have hailed the game as the best baseball video game ever. As a baseball elitist myself, there is no denying that the game is extremely impressive.

It has been five solid years since I have enjoyed a baseball game as much as this year's iteration of The Show. Because of this enjoyment level, I have found myself glued to my PS3 cultivating my Road to the Show career and running a somewhat successful Detroit Tigers dynasty.

Read More - Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better

Game: MLB '09: The ShowReader Score: 9/10 - Vote Now
Platform: PS2 / PS3 / PSPVotes for game: 90 - View All

MLB '09: The Show Videos

Member Comments

# 21 moemoe24 @ 05/07/09 08:06 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mmorg


	This is wrong on all accounts. You say you played on a high level of baseball but consider MVP's hitting mechanics and batters eye feature superior to The Show? How do you figure? I played Semi-Pro and College ball and I never remember the baseball flashing different colors based upon what type of pitch was coming. I also never remember adjusting my swing to hit a fly ball or ground ball. If I wanted a fly ball I looked for a pitch up in the zone, and by swinging at a pitch up in the zone you have a better chance hitting a fly ball because that is how baseball works. This is the way it is in The Show. MVP was a mediocre baseball game at best though they did do some great things with control schemes.

Very good post. MVP was a great game, but the hype it received was for one simple reason.....it was the first true sim on a console...and I use the word sim lightly. The games before that were very arcading with ridiculous stats(RBI baseball, High Heat, World Series Baseball). Thats the only reason it got so much hype.

Add to the fact that the game went bye bye and it only fed the hype machine even more. The thing about remembering is, you only remember the good things...and forget the bad things.

The Show simulates real baseball, especially hitting and pitching, WAY more than MVP ever did.

# 22 SDwinder @ 05/07/09 08:23 PM

For guys that have problems fielding with The Show, put it on Auto-Field and Manual Throw. It works great that way and actually will simulate the game better in the field. Fielders will move and field according to their parameters the way they are programmed to. But then, you can tell them where to throw the ball, and by doing a Pre-load on the throw, you will get a smooth animation on the throw. Trust me, it just works better and looks great.

# 23 raidersbball20 @ 05/07/09 08:37 PM

this is all true, why I play mvp still

# 24 SDwinder @ 05/07/09 08:38 PM

Also, base stealing in The Show works great. Controlling multiple baserunners is a pain, but stealing 2B works very well. The AI is challenging and makes you work for a lead and a jump.

Some pitchers in certain situations wont allow you to get an extended lead, and you risk getting picked off. But when that happens I just work on getting a great jump more with a faster runner from the normal lead..

Normally, I can get a one extra step lead without drawing a pick, but sometimes it is almost impossible.

The user controlled sliding is kinda sluggish at times. Sometimes, I feel like the AI is over-riding my choice.

# 25 mike8813 @ 05/07/09 08:45 PM

I don't understand the writer's logic in dismissing the Show's hitting mechanic. To say that you can't bring your hands in to pull a ball or extend to go oppo is wrong.

To pull an inside pitch: have your PCI inside, swing early. DONE.

To hit an outside pitch the opposite way: have your PCI outside, wait the extra split second, swing late. DONE.

Average those out and you hit it up the middle. Am I missing something here?

# 26 Tyrant8RDFL @ 05/07/09 08:50 PM

I dont use guess pitch, but I do use where in the zone the next pitch will be but only If I have 0 or 1 strike in my count. If i have 2 strikes I use no hitting feature at all. Its all about protecting the plate at that point. Its pretty intense.

I can truly agree on is the hitter eyes.It is a much better feature than the hitting features given on the Show.

Hitting im cool with on both games.

Pitching I like the show better. It can get down right scary on the show to land a ptich where you want. On MVP it was way to easy to paint corners. I was unhittable.

Baserunning I go with MVP. Its pretty obvious why.

# 27 F1N1SH1M @ 05/07/09 08:57 PM

Hitting in the Show 09' is not as complicated as Christian McLeod has described.

First of all I think GP ON should be eliminated. Baseball simulation and the GP ON feature should not be in the same sentence. A big red cherry should not flash on the screen to notify you where the ball is going. This is cheating and a reward system you could liken to a electronic preschool reading game. GP OFF is clearly a better reflection on how the professionals carry out their craft.

"My biggest gripe with The Show's hitting system -- and something that makes absolutely no sense to me at all -- is that your fly ball, ground ball, pull and push influence is tied to the right stick. At what point did this decision make sense to SCE Studios San Diego?

This is just another aspect of hitting in The Show that takes control away from the user and creates a disconnect when at the dish. If I am a right-handed hitter and want to dig in to push an inside pitch to the right side of the infield, I should be able to do so. The way the hitting system is currently set up, you would have to guess that the pitch was going to be inside, and then before the pitch is thrown use your right stick to take the ball to the right side of the infield.

Sorry SCE, but that is just silly. I should be able to react to the pitch as it is being thrown to me, and if it is inside, be able to pull my hands closer to my body and push the ball to the right side of the infield.

SCE's hitting system feels too complicated for its own good and needs to get back to the "read and react" simplicity that made hitting in MVP feel so natural."

1. Pre-pitch the right analog stick allows you to choose which direction you want the batter to influence the ball to travel by simply flicking it in the specified direction anywhere on a 360 degree axis until you feel the slight rumble.

2. The left analog stick allows you to simultaneously hold the stick in the direction you want the ball to travel while swinging the bat with the x or square button.

Personally I never use the left analog in hitting, just the right analog. I also limit my use of the right analog to situational (stay out of double play, hit the ball to the right side, sacrifice fly, bunting, etc) and sometimes 2-strike hitting. It is much easier to use good timing to hit the pitch well instead of you trying to guess where the pitch is headed. I find I have better success with the above average to highest rated batters when I just use timing to hit with them instead of pre-pitch trying to influence where I want the ball to go, unless Im in a situational hitting at-bat.

Early recognition of the pitch and timing in your swing is dependent upon the individuals sight, depth perception and reflexes. If you cannot utilize the batters eye to fixate a target and attach it to the release point and thus track the ball from that release point repeatedly instead of getting sidetracked by the windup then trying to pick up the ball, therin lies part of the problem.

After one or two pitches I try to match the release point to a target on the batters eye (an HD tv helps considerably but I did that even before I had an HD and still had reasonable success) for a particular pitcher during their windup. Once I have that target mentally seared in my mind I imprint another target for the release point of the pitcher from their stretch because as some of you may know it can vary for some pitchers. When playing online these release points depend upon your opponent hitting the bar in the pitching meter to execute the pitch (offline the AI pitchers seem to vary the release points on a more regular basis).[ I purposely miss the bar sometimes for fastballs, especially when pitcher is tiring, but still manipulate the process to the point where you can throw strikes even if you miss your "intended" speed and location. This comes in handy when you are playing an opponent who is "zeroing" in on your pitchers release point.]

Now if you can pick up the ball right out of the pitchers hand this gives you more time to recognize speed/pitch type, make a decision on where you think the ball is headed and whether you want to swing at it.

The instruction manual clearly states how you can influence hitting and the user has a great deal of control in the process. Ive had good to great success in doing so whether it's versus the AI or human opponents and the only diffuculty I play is guess pitch off, legend or hall of fame/no zones.

# 28 Brian SCEA @ 05/07/09 09:13 PM

Some tips on hitting:
* Whether your PCI is inside or outside does influence the direction of the hit.
* Whether your PCI is over or under the pitch influences flyballs and groundballs. There are also more factors than that.
* The right analog stick is a legacy feature for people who want to use it. When you use it, there's a contact penalty. Almost everyone uses the left analog to control hitting.
* The same goes for guess pitch, it's for people who don't want to use pure zone hitting. The game is designed for pure zone hitting, guess pitch is simply an alternative to that. That said, there's a lot of deep strategy to guess pitch for those who enjoy it.

All four of the above have been in the game since PS1 days in one form or another, which long predates any of the games being discussed. I'm sure earlier baseball games have had these concepts as well. I just wanted to clarify some factual errors being discussed, this isn't a comment on anything else.

A common theme over the years is that every person would enjoy the game more if the features they didn't use were taken out. By the same token, every person would enjoy the game less if the features other people didn't use were taken out. Someday in the future of gaming it'll be great when we can ship custom tailored games, or more "flavors" of the same game. Unfortunately often those efforts produce quality issues by dividing efforts.

One reason for the Strategy Guide this year is because it's easy to jump to conclusions on how things work. For example Guess pitch has long penalized for incorrect guesses, but until it showed up in the Strategy Guide (and even after for a while) almost everyone thought it was a freebie. There's no particular reason to think of it as a freebie, but that's how urban legends combined with the internet work. The same about the classic vs. meter debate. Speculation easily wins over facts on the internet.

If you take a look at the very last page of the Strategy Guide, it reveals some subtle insights on hitting. I think it's a lot more fun to explore the game and discover these things on your own than to simply be told in a guide, and there's a lot more to hitting both in the game and real life. It ties into why real life pitchers pitch the way they do and favor certain zones with certain pitches. A lot of strategies in real life work in the game for this reason.

Why do you walk AI batters? You certainly don't want to, but you do. It's actually a complex question because it progressively happens over 4-10 pitches, and the answer reveals that there are a lot of things happening strategically on different levels. Just to name one example.

Hitting is definitely not just about pitch location and where the batter tries to swing at. Just to name one example, when the batter swings too early he can't help but roll his wrists and this induce more groundballs. Pitchers further exploit this by locating pitches away, which often end up being pulled foul by the batter for a chopper. Look at 6-way spray charts (Lft-Cen-Rt with FB-GB) and it's obvious what's happening. You can look at it through stat splits, by watching an early swing in slow motion, or asking any hitting coach. Better yet, look at the assymetries of how pitchers pitch and find out why. This and every other concept is why.

The point is the batter can be aiming dead center on the ball, but because he was too early he will always swing over it if aiming dead on. This would happen even if the hitter knew exactly where the pitch was going to land but not when. There are no batters in MLB who have a flat swing from beginning to end, and that is exactly why hitting is not just about pitch location and where the batter aims.

Each of the items listed in the Analysis Legend correspond to a key principle like this, and there are a lot more not yet described. In that regard, it's a lot like real life because there aren't any books that cover even half the mechanics of hitting. Some of the best ones were written 50 years ago!

# 29 Brian SCEA @ 05/07/09 09:22 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by mike8813


	I don't understand the writer's logic in dismissing the Show's hitting mechanic. To say that you can't bring your hands in to pull a ball or extend to go oppo is wrong. To pull an inside pitch: have your PCI inside, swing early. DONE. To hit an outside pitch the opposite way: have your PCI outside, wait the extra split second, swing late. DONE. Average those out and you hit it up the middle. Am I missing something here?

Yes that's exactly how it works. Almost everything objectively described by OP as far as how hitting works is factually speaking incorrect.

Subjectively, everyone's going to have their opinion on what they like or not or how they feel about the results. That's why my comments are only about the factual aspects of how hitting works. Once one person says it, people repeat it until it becomes an urban legend and it gets flagged for next year's Strategy Guide.

Play whatever you like, games are for entertainment!

# 30 metal134 @ 05/07/09 09:23 PM

To me, it doesn't matter how many things MVP did better (I agree with those who say that pitching was NOT one of them. Unequivocally, no way). There is one thing that MVP didn't have that, for me, is the MOST important thing in a baseball game, statistical accuracy! The Show 09' is the first game since High Heat that I could play through a season and look at a pitchers line and say, "yeah, in EVERY category, that looks like a real line." Give me a season pitching line from MVP and give me a real line and I can immediately tell the difference. This extends to offensive players as well, but it's more-so because of the pitching.

# 31 Artman22 @ 05/07/09 09:26 PM

I completely agree with this entire Article. I would add that MVP still has way better fielding as well. Fielding in the show needs to be redone..

# 32 Artman22 @ 05/07/09 09:27 PM

I feel MVP had more hit variations.

# 33 nemesis04 @ 05/07/09 09:35 PM

The only aspect I remotely miss from MVP is the fielding. That area needs some major attention. I think the pitching in the Show blows away what MVP had in terms of the pitching meter.

I did not like the hitting in MVP at all the up for a fly ball down for a grounder was lame. I much prefer aiming the left stick to track the pitch. The PCI still needs to be smaller, it is too big.

# 34 mikeveli20 @ 05/07/09 09:37 PM

If I had to choose only 1 of the 3 things you mentioned to be implemented into The Show 2010, it would definitely be the hitting. I agree, there is nothing like the hitting in MVP 05 and it really was incredible.

# 35 nemesis04 @ 05/07/09 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by jim416


	Disagree 100% and I loved MVP PC.

The hit variety in the Show has improved tremendously but there were some hit types that were in MVP that are absent from the Show.

# 36 ehh @ 05/07/09 09:40 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Art1bk


	I feel MVP had more hit variations.

MVP was pop up, line drive and HR city. Very few weak grounds and no bloopers. I loved the hitting in MVP but the hit variety was poor, by comparison MLB '09 is better but even that pales in comparison to MLB 2K4 IMO. Why can't a baseball game get bloopers right these days? I never hit a single blooper in any version of MVP or The Show.

# 37 Townie33 @ 05/07/09 09:42 PM

Hitter's Eye was pure genius! Trying to "read" the pitch out the pitcher's hand was the best. The different colors for the different pitches was sweet. Why can't we have that again?

But I do LOVE THIS game!

# 38 nemesis04 @ 05/07/09 09:48 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Townie33


	Hitter's Eye was pure genius! Trying to "read" the pitch out the pitcher's hand was the best. The different colors for the different pitches was sweet. Why can't we have that again? But I do LOVE THIS game!

Never knew why so many people loved this feature? Basically a feature that tipped the batter to the cpu's pitch.

On another note hope all is well Townie!

# 39 ehh @ 05/07/09 09:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsb13


	I dont know man, The Show is pretty line drive happy itself and i dont know if I have seen a true high chopper yet. Also, in the show all my bloopers are from jam shots that go to opposite field...I have nevers seen a pulled bloop hit.

I definitely agree with you, there are way, way too many line drives in The Show but overall I feel the hit variety is better. There are a more realistic number of weak grounders and IF hits in MLB '09.

# 40 nemesis04 @ 05/07/09 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by bsb13


	It was supposed to simulate a hitter reading the seams of the ball (which happens in real life). I thought it was a good attempt but it just didn't quite cut it.

I know what it was supposed to do but it seemed like a crutch to me. A batter cannot read ever single pitch.

« Previous 123 4 5 6 7 8 Next »

More Links

Three Things MVP 05 Still Does Better