Madden 2010 News Post

Madden NFL 10 Blog: Player Ratings - A New Philosophy, A New Era

07:53 PM - February 9, 2009 by Ian_Cummings

Hey guys, we thought it would be a perfect time to share something that I am personally very excited about for Madden NFL 10. We took each and every rating in the game (over 50+ player ratings) and scaled them up/down in a way that is now using much more of the scale. I like to describe it around the office like this…”We basically stretched out the ratings.” We want to use more of the numbers so we get a bigger, more noticeable affect in the game.

Let me give you guys an example….in Madden NFL 09 all of the WR’s Route Running ratings ranged from 62-99. In the current Madden NFL 10 build, WR’s now check in from 35-99. To counter this on the defensive side, all CB’s in Madden NFL 09 had a Man Coverage rating which ranged from 64-99. Now in Madden NFL 10, CB’s Man Coverage range is currently 40-99.

Every position and every rating has been re-scaled to expand the range of numbers we are dealing with. The Overall Rating for your average NFL player has dropped. Your Joe Average linebacker who was 80 OVR is now dropped down to 70. The players who were before right on the cusp of 90 in a rating category are now down around 85-88…Meaning, there are fewer superstar players out there. Before, where you could maybe get by throwing to your slot WR who had 93 SPD, with 74 ROUTES, and 77 Catching…now in Madden NFL 10, that guy is going to have like 91 SPD, 60-65 ROUTES and anywhere from 65-70 Catching. Let me tell you, these rating drops make a big difference when that slot rookie WR with 90+ speed now drops every 3rd pass or so, or just simply cannot get open.
The superstars have not been affected however, this is intentional. Peyton is still 99 OVR, Patrick Willis a 99, Larry Fitz is 99, etc. The elite players at rating categories have not been affected either (JaMarcus Russell still has a 98 Throw Power and Chris Johnson still rated 99 Speed). [Side note: One of my personal goals is to have the actual NFL players in Madden NFL 10 look like their real-life counterparts and play to their strengths and weaknesses like never before in a football video game.]

Speaking of the Speed, which is always a hot topic, we made some major changes with the infamous SPD rating as well. To give you a great example, I will again go back to WR and CB. In Madden NFL 09, the WR SPD range was 85-100…CB was 87-99.

In Madden NFL 10, WR SPD range is currently 70-100…CB is currently 75-99. So as you may or may not tell, the SPD range has been pushed down, in our opinions, to better reflect the “sim-gameplay” style that Ian and Phil have been telling you about all winter long. This SPD change has been updated for each position, so it makes a huge game play affect.

Ian and I had a game the other day where Earnest Graham broke one up the middle for a 55 yard touchdown run… and he could not be caught!…E-Grahams’ Madden NFL 10 current SPD rating….80 SPD. That should give you a good sense of what is possible with the new ratings. It’s not all about having the 90+ SPD anymore. On this particular run, Ian’s CB’s got hung up against some blockers and all I had to do was beat one safety and Graham was gone! He had Brandon Jacobs and his 85 SPD breaking some long runs as well. On the flip side of bigger/slower backs, Chris Johnson is absolutely lethal right now. You can actually get him outside with sweeps now and he is a beast to stop. But again, we are constantly tuning the gameplay, we have an entire team dedicated to that and they are some of the best people we have in the building.

So there you have it, player ratings are in for a major overhaul this year and I am really excited already with the impact they are having on the early builds of the game. And rest assured, we are well aware of the outside impacts this will have….Rookies will now come into the league based on the new ranges, NCAA Import guys are being tuned as well…Progression has been accounted for as well to better reflect breakout stars and burned-out former stars. Meaning, we want to have bigger jumps in OVR this year, both positive and negative. That’s all for now, probably gave away too much already!

Would love to hear any feedback about this big new change in the way we do player ratings. I’d be happy to answer any questions regarding the new rating ranges….please no individual ratings questions, not answering those! Stay tuned for more Madden player rating related blogs in the future!

- Donny Moore – Madden NFL 10 Designer

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Member Comments

# 261 rudyVike @ 02/12/09 12:19 AM

No doubt there's more feedback here and information than what can be taken in but it's really a privilege to see those ideas in action put in writing!

This may already be implemented but it'd be fun to see the element of realism and player value be governed by some set of situational "Consistency Multipliers". The more consistently a player plays to their ratings through a variety of circumstances, the more valuable they are. Maybe this is getting off topic of ratings though. But for example, Ernest Graham may be able to run away from everybody on a particular play, but he's not likely to do that game after game. Because of his higher speed/acc ratings, Adrian Peterson on the other hand is more likely to do that in more games. Yet some games AP can be bottled up because he's not reading the holes right. Youth and inexperience at work, offsetting great talent.

So for sake of example, say Graham is less likely to have less drastic ups and downs than AP so his consistency multiplier for certain ratings would be higher than AP's until AP has more experience. Don't know if that concept is very clear at all but thought i'd toss it out.

# 262 Flo @ 02/12/09 12:45 AM

I pm'd Ian with this and posted it in two other threads and have yet to get an answer. I will have to assume they are not answering because we PS3 owners are going to get screwed again and they don't want to tell us yet. However, I will ask again: Will the PS3 version be 1080p this year or will we get the lesser version for the 4th straight year? If you guys can't program for the PS3, maybe you should just drop that platform like you did the PC version.

Flo

# 263 cowboysfan440 @ 02/12/09 02:12 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by swaldo


	I still like APF2K8 ratings better - so simple and makes it easy to scout your opponent or build a team to the style you want. Tuning gameplay would also be easier that way rather than constantly fiddling with tons of numerical ratings.

i like their player abilities idea i think that was really kool
and is actually useful unlike madden's weapons system but going to the whole star rating idea isnt going to work imo theres just not as much variety but it like this i think AP is faster than brian westrbook when it comes to pure speed but i also believe in apf's rating sytem they both would deserve a speed "ability" and abviously they'd both be gold stars so they would end up being the same speed while that really shouldnt be the case

truth is no matter what system there is it will be bashed and disliked because none of them are perfect but for madden i think the numerical system is best
one last thing
i believe the reason apf had to come up with the whole star rating idea is can u imagine the backlash they would get from ppl about their team's legends seriously i mean we yell and rant about ratings about guys who dont even really matter now imagine how much crap they would get for giving one legend from one era a better rating than one from another
its just to hard to judge those guys cause the times were different
the more recent guys were deffinetly bigger and faster so they had to kinda level the playing field one last thing its a legends game just think of the amount of 99's there be lol

that ended up being alot longer than i expected sorry about the grammer its late and im tired lol

# 264 xxjgbxx @ 02/12/09 03:32 AM

This has to be done right, if not you will be playing madden 10 with ncaa 09 type gameplay where speed kills

# 265 Cryolemon @ 02/12/09 04:46 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by cowboysfan440


	i like their player abilities idea i think that was really kool and is actually useful unlike madden's weapons system but going to the whole star rating idea isnt going to work imo theres just not as much variety but it like this i think AP is faster than brian westrbook when it comes to pure speed but i also believe in apf's rating sytem they both would deserve a speed "ability" and abviously they'd both be gold stars so they would end up being the same speed while that really shouldnt be the case

Even players with speed burner in APF are slightly different speeds.

# 266 JMD @ 02/12/09 08:29 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Ian_Cummings_EA


	Hey guys, we thought it would be a perfect time to share something that I am personally very excited about for Madden NFL 10. We took each and every rating in the game (over 50+ player ratings) and scaled them up/down in a way that is now using much more of the scale. I like to describe it around the office like this…”We basically stretched out the ratings.” We want to use more of the numbers so we get a bigger, more noticeable affect in the game. Let me give you guys an example….in Madden NFL 09 all of the WR’s Route Running ratings ranged from 62-99. In the current Madden NFL 10 build, WR’s now check in from 35-99. To counter this on the defensive side, all CB’s in Madden NFL 09 had a Man Coverage rating which ranged from 64-99. Now in Madden NFL 10, CB’s Man Coverage range is currently 40-99. Every position and every rating has been re-scaled to expand the range of numbers we are dealing with. The Overall Rating for your average NFL player has dropped. Your Joe Average linebacker who was 80 OVR is now dropped down to 70. The players who were before right on the cusp of 90 in a rating category are now down around 85-88…Meaning, there are fewer superstar players out there. Before, where you could maybe get by throwing to your slot WR who had 93 SPD, with 74 ROUTES, and 77 Catching…now in Madden NFL 10, that guy is going to have like 91 SPD, 60-65 ROUTES and anywhere from 65-70 Catching. Let me tell you, these rating drops make a big difference when that slot rookie WR with 90+ speed now drops every 3rd pass or so, or just simply cannot get open. The superstars have not been affected however, this is intentional. Peyton is still 99 OVR, Patrick Willis a 99, Larry Fitz is 99, etc. The elite players at rating categories have not been affected either (JaMarcus Russell still has a 98 Throw Power and Chris Johnson still rated 99 Speed). [Side note: One of my personal goals is to have the actual NFL players in Madden NFL 10 look like their real-life counterparts and play to their strengths and weaknesses like never before in a football video game.] Speaking of the Speed, which is always a hot topic, we made some major changes with the infamous SPD rating as well. To give you a great example, I will again go back to WR and CB. In Madden NFL 09, the WR SPD range was 85-100…CB was 87-99. In Madden NFL 10, WR SPD range is currently 70-100…CB is currently 75-99. So as you may or may not tell, the SPD range has been pushed down, in our opinions, to better reflect the “sim-gameplay” style that Ian and Phil have been telling you about all winter long. This SPD change has been updated for each position, so it makes a huge game play affect. Ian and I had a game the other day where Earnest Graham broke one up the middle for a 55 yard touchdown run… and he could not be caught!…E-Grahams’ Madden NFL 10 current SPD rating….80 SPD. That should give you a good sense of what is possible with the new ratings. It’s not all about having the 90+ SPD anymore. On this particular run, Ian’s CB’s got hung up against some blockers and all I had to do was beat one safety and Graham was gone! He had Brandon Jacobs and his 85 SPD breaking some long runs as well. On the flip side of bigger/slower backs, Chris Johnson is absolutely lethal right now. You can actually get him outside with sweeps now and he is a beast to stop. But again, we are constantly tuning the gameplay, we have an entire team dedicated to that and they are some of the best people we have in the building. So there you have it, player ratings are in for a major overhaul this year and I am really excited already with the impact they are having on the early builds of the game. And rest assured, we are well aware of the outside impacts this will have….Rookies will now come into the league based on the new ranges, NCAA Import guys are being tuned as well…Progression has been accounted for as well to better reflect breakout stars and burned-out former stars. Meaning, we want to have bigger jumps in OVR this year, both positive and negative. That’s all for now, probably gave away too much already! Would love to hear any feedback about this big new change in the way we do player ratings. I’d be happy to answer any questions regarding the new rating ranges….please no individual ratings questions, not answering those! Stay tuned for more Madden player rating related blogs in the future! - Donny Moore – Madden NFL 10 Designer

This sounds great, but I have a question. Once you guys are done tweaking the game and testing it is there any chance a few people from the forums can get some hands on time with the game before it goes gold? There are a few guys here like LBzrule, to name one, who have great football knowledge and I think it would be great for guys like him to get to play this game before everything is set in stone.

Grab a handfull of these guys and put them in a room for a full day and let them have at it. I think they could give fresh insite to the game and what if anything needs to be tweaked before it's is completed. Don't take this the wrong way, I have full confidence in the EA team, I just think some fresh minds that have not been working on the game for months can provide a different point of view.

I'm already sold, my copy of Madden 10 is pre ordered and paid in full.

Just a thought.

# 267 adembroski @ 02/12/09 09:07 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by BezO


	Absoulutely! Hide them, something, but I hated scrolling through unecessary ratings. And if they do include these irrelevent ratings in the overall formula, they should remove them. I think I'd prefer absolute ratings that stuck with a player from team to team so I could determine his value on a particular team and in different schemes. What exactly governs the ratings? Would that undersized LB have higher ratings on all Cover 2 teams? Will he hold his value if his current team changes their defensive philosophy? Does he maintain that higher value when I run man defenses with that Cover 2 team? Are all of his ratings boosted on teams that value him more? Does he cover better, have more speed, ect? I never played HC if you can't tell.

The way it works in HC coach is a bit different from Madden.

The players have the same set-in-stone numbers as Madden when it comes down too it, but rather than sifting through all that, you are giving numbers in several over-arching categories as it relates to your team's philosophy. I've seen players go from 70 overall to 90 overall just by changing your team philosophy.

The way this works is it takes the numbers and plugs them into a weighting system based what you are looking for. For example, if you like to platoon runningbacks, a back wont get as much credit for having a high stamina rating. If you like power backs, speed backs will be heavily under rated.

The players specific numbers... speed, agility, awareness, catch, tackle, etc... don't change. Just the way the numbers fit into the overall and the categorical ratings (this is things like Physical, Mental, Intangibles, and Potential).

If you decide you prefer scrambling quarterbacks, Donovan McNabb is going to be higher rated than, say, Ben Roethlisburger. On the other hand, if you like big pocket passers, Big Ben will be the higher rated.

The nice thing about this system is the way it affects computer logic. The computer's moves are governed by a team roadmap system that tracks pretty much every player in the league and tells the computer what their best option at that position is. You can use it as the player as well. You go into QBs, for example, and it'll list all available QBs in order of their overall rating according to your philosophy, and how they are available (ie. upcoming draft, already on team, free agent, or on trading block).

So if you've got a fairly average pocket passer starting, but there's a better one available, that one will be listed ahead of who you have there.

It's a really robust and very well thought out system... and it was designed by the same guys who are working franchise mode this year, so you can understand we Head Coach fans' excitement at their assignment to that post.

As far as I'm concerned, if ALL they do is bring over Team Roadmaps, I'll be happy with franchise for the time being. It alone made the computers free agency and draft logic infinitely better than what we've seen out of Madden.

# 268 cowboysfan440 @ 02/12/09 01:09 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cryolemon


	Even players with speed burner in APF are slightly different speeds.

may be true but between guys with the same star grade at the same position that both had speed burner i didnt notice a difference

# 269 Donny_Moore @ 02/12/09 08:45 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by JMD


	This sounds great, but I have a question. Once you guys are done tweaking the game and testing it is there any chance a few people from the forums can get some hands on time with the game before it goes gold? There are a few guys here like LBzrule, to name one, who have great football knowledge and I think it would be great for guys like him to get to play this game before everything is set in stone. Grab a handfull of these guys and put them in a room for a full day and let them have at it. I think they could give fresh insite to the game and what if anything needs to be tweaked before it's is completed. Don't take this the wrong way, I have full confidence in the EA team, I just think some fresh minds that have not been working on the game for months can provide a different point of view. I'm already sold, my copy of Madden 10 is pre ordered and paid in full. Just a thought.

Stay tuned my friend...

# 270 Donny_Moore @ 02/12/09 08:49 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by yvesdereuter


	I havent looked at all 31 pages but would kind of like to know if the dreaded speed rating hit for players imported from NCAA is still going to be in the game. And like someone else said, this has to be done well, otherwise it could fail miserably and make SPD more important.

Yes, NCAA Import draft classes will be tuned. I actually might start up a new thread and ask the community how they would like to see speed treated in regards to NCAA import guys.

I will explain how the logic currently works, and maybe we can all come to some sort of consensus.

# 271 SHO @ 02/12/09 08:54 PM

Would it be too late in the cycle to implement some sort of HC-esque feature that adjusts a players' rating according to the team's offense/primarily defensive philosphy?

# 272 thudias @ 02/12/09 09:08 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny_Moore


	Yes, NCAA Import draft classes will be tuned. I actually might start up a new thread and ask the community how they would like to see speed treated in regards to NCAA import guys. I will explain how the logic currently works, and maybe we can all come to some sort of consensus.

I am looking forward to it.

yay..hey wheres the guy that always says something about the Madden Democracy?

# 273 shttymcgee @ 02/12/09 09:13 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by ProjectRipCity


	Adjusted player ratings huh? How bout fixing glide catches and the actual physics of the game? For example a 5'4 150lb guy should not be able to tackle a 6'6 350 reguardless of skill in tackling. Unless in someway he tripped him..lol. Pay attention to this. Im not buying and I wont let any of my closer friends buy until the intelligent gamers on this forum say this is a quality game. Sick of all the eye candy gimmicks

I think using a 5'4 150 lb player and 6'6 350 lb runner sort of shoots any idea concerning realism in the foot.

# 274 shttymcgee @ 02/12/09 09:35 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitchditcher


	Linebacker Coverage One thing that drastically needs some changing is the coverage ratings of Linebackers. You have some linebackers with 70+ Man Coverage and 85+ Zone Coverage. That is absolutely ridiculous. Did you know that in Madden 09, if you put Brian Urlacher at CB his overall rating is an 86 ? Eighty effing Six. Brian Urlacher. That's higher than most #2 CBs in the game. It's absurd, man. I know guys like Brian Urlacher, Gary Brackett, and Kirk Morrison are some of the best coverage Linebackers in the game, there is no doubt about that, but you simply cannot have Linebackers with higher coverage ratings than some corners. The fact of the matter is, no LB in the game today is better at coverage than any CB in the game today. I don't care if you're talking about Jason David.. he still should have higher coverage ratings than any Linebacker. In Madden 09 you have most Linebackers running 30 yards downfield with WRs and HBs. Jumping 10 feet off the ground to blindly super swat a pass. That is asinine. There is no way in hell that would happen in real life. That's why coaches uses motion and try to get HBs one on one with a LB in real life. It's caleld match-ups. Because no LB is able to have good coverage more than 10-15 yards downfield. It just doesn't happen. The highest MAN COVERAGE rating any LB should have is 60. The highest ZONE COVERAGE rating any LB should have is 75. No if, ands, or buts about it.

Tampa 2 MLB's are responsible for the DEEP MIDDLE third, even though the play LB. By your logic, all you need to do is lineup your fastest WR in the slot, run play action and send him down the shoot, but you know what, the deep middle is not where you want to attack, because the MLB has a shorter distance to run then your receiver. The actual place to attack is SHORT middle, by clearing out the MLB.

Urlacher should not be rated an 86, but lb's can and do cover receivers all of the time. Should they lock them down, no, but this is the NFL, the speed differential between a 4.4 receiver and a 4.5 lb with knowledge of leverage and area of responsibility is not as great as you think it is.

# 275 kcarr @ 02/13/09 03:56 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	Tampa 2 MLB's are responsible for the DEEP MIDDLE third, even though the play LB. By your logic, all you need to do is lineup your fastest WR in the slot, run play action and send him down the shoot, but you know what, the deep middle is not where you want to attack, because the MLB has a shorter distance to run then your receiver. The actual place to attack is SHORT middle, by clearing out the MLB. Urlacher should not be rated an 86, but lb's can and do cover receivers all of the time. Should they lock them down, no, but this is the NFL, the speed differential between a 4.4 receiver and a 4.5 lb with knowledge of leverage and area of responsibility is not as great as you think it is.

Yes, the difference between 4.4 and 4.5 means the faster player covers 40 yards just over 2 percent faster. This means that by the time he has ran 40 yards the slower player is within one step of done. Therefore faster LBs should be able to at least run with most recievers, expecially since they do kinda get a head start and they usually aren't running a full 40 yards. Where the receivers really have the advantage is going to usually be quickness and agility. This is where they will beat most fast LBs is making good cuts. Now slower LBs they might be able to just outrun.

I think a lot of the problem with speed in this game is there is too much difference between some players of different speeds. Even taking a guy who runs a 4.2 against a guy who runs a 4.7 given equal acceleration relative to their speeds the faster guy with only gain about 1 yard per 10 yards ran. Therefor chasing a back out into the flats or chasing him down on a sweep really shouldn't be that out of the question like it is here as long as the LB plays smart, makes good reads, takes good angles.

# 276 uiucjpo @ 02/14/09 04:23 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by kcarr


	I think a lot of the problem with speed in this game is there is too much difference between some players of different speeds.

Excellent post. I remember seeing an article a few years ago about this in the 04 game (no link...sorry). It timed players in the 40, and the fastest player were almost 3 seconds faster than the slowest players, when in reality, almost everyone should be within about 1 second.

# 277 bgizle @ 02/14/09 08:55 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Donny_Moore


	Yes, NCAA Import draft classes will be tuned. I actually might start up a new thread and ask the community how they would like to see speed treated in regards to NCAA import guys. I will explain how the logic currently works, and maybe we can all come to some sort of consensus.

Yea, I think this is going to be tricky. You can see How Reggie Bush's speed and acceleration dominated in the Pac 10, but you can see how well it works on the pro level. While he still might be one of the more explosive players in the league, you can definitely tell the difference.

# 278 glitchditcher @ 02/14/09 09:43 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by shttymcgee


	Tampa 2 MLB's are responsible for the DEEP MIDDLE third, even though the play LB. By your logic, all you need to do is lineup your fastest WR in the slot, run play action and send him down the shoot, but you know what, the deep middle is not where you want to attack, because the MLB has a shorter distance to run then your receiver. The actual place to attack is SHORT middle, by clearing out the MLB. Urlacher should not be rated an 86, but lb's can and do cover receivers all of the time. Should they lock them down, no, but this is the NFL, the speed differential between a 4.4 receiver and a 4.5 lb with knowledge of leverage and area of responsibility is not as great as you think it is.

The MLBs in a Tampa 2 play the intermediate middle, not the deep middle. The two Safetys play deep. So no, you wouldnt just line up a WR in the slot and send him down the shoot because the LB will cover him for the start of the route, but them let the Safety take him once he goes deep. Yes, LBs cover receivers. I never said they didnt.. they just dont cover them as well or as deep as they do in Madden in real life. Not even close. Oh and 40 yard dash times are irrelavent when determining game speed. They're a decent indicator of acceleration.. but not much else.

# 279 shttymcgee @ 02/14/09 10:00 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by glitchditcher


	The MLBs in a Tampa 2 play the intermediate middle, not the deep middle. The two Safetys play deep. So no, you wouldnt just line up a WR in the slot and send him down the shoot because the LB will cover him for the start of the route, but them let the Safety take him once he goes deep. Yes, LBs cover receivers. I never said they didnt.. they just dont cover them as well or as deep as they do in Madden in real life. Not even close. Oh and 40 yard dash times are irrelavent when determining game speed. They're a decent indicator of acceleration.. but not much else.

You are wrong. The DEEP MIDDLE is covered by an underneath defender in Tampa 2. The hole or "intermediate middle" is essentially uncovered as there is no "middle player," instead there are 2 hook/curl defenders that play aim closere to half way between the hash and the numbers (of course pattern reading could bring them inside farther) in Tampa 2. COVER 2 is a 5 under/2 deep zone coverage. Tampa 2 is actually a 4 under, 3 deep. You mentioned the speed rating, you said that LB's shouldn't be able to cover fast RB's and WR's. Yes, the 40 yard dash in exercise science is a measure of acceleration, yes top speed is rarely reached in football, I was only making it clear that your idea didn't make sense. Now, you're contradicting yourself by admitting that LB's DO cover receivers and your showing your lack of knowledge by not knowing the difference between Tampa 2 and true cover 2.

There SHOULD NOT be anymore separation in madden, there should be far far far less.

# 280 K_GUN @ 02/14/09 10:58 PM

Paging LBZrule.....Paging...Stat

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