Monday Night Raw 3/14/11: Did it all for the Snooki!

[Streets]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

I somewhat agree w/ your point about the oversaturation of PPVs. But this isn't just another show, this is the biggest show of the year, and it's clear that Vince wants to bring in as much attention as he can to try to up the buyrates for WM, which have been down in recent years. He's already got The Rock and Austin involved, even if they're not wrestling. HBK possibly involved in the Taker/HHH match. Adding Snooki is just to create even more buzz. I don't see why people are so offended by it. Like I said in my other post, people have to look at this rationally and stop being so emotionally attached to this ideal about pro wrestling that just doesn't exist anymore. It's a business first and foremost. Thats why no matter how much internet fans b and moan about it, Cena isn't turning heel anytime soon. That's why Snooki's added to Wrestlemania in a relatively meaningless match.

Rick,

There are two ways to look at the product and any decision the WWE makes (who should be pushed, who should turn, what storylines are good, etc.). One, is to look at the product from a business perspective (overness, buyrates, ratings, etc.)

Then there's looking at decisions and judging them by what we as fans would like to see, and conversely, what we have no interest in seeing. I used to be just like you, preaching the former, and calling everyone who didn't see that keeping Cena face is just good business sense "internet snobs" (though I probably wasn't that harsh). I think I realized that I have no stock in the WWE and thus, it doesn't really matter to me if they get more buys putting Snooki on the card. I can respect it, but I don't have to like it. I'm not going to see any of that extra money.

However, there is this rare middle ground that few people tread where you can like something that's bad for business or hate something that's good for business because you're a fan. I'm not talking about the guys who think that everything the WWE does is crap but are the most loyal viewers. Or on the other end, preach that everything the WWE does is great even if you know damn well you don't wanna see it.

Here are some examples of business and personal feelings that I have that contradict, but I can accept both.

Rey Mysterio is an awesome worker and very underrated (business), but I hate him and the way he is booked (personal)

Alberto Del Rio probably shouldn't win at Mania and will most likely end up going the Swagger/Sheamus route if he does (business), but I will mark like crazy if he does win as he is a top 3 favorite of mine (personal).

Snooki at Wrestlemania is smart business and will increase buyrates (business), but I can't stand the troll and have no desire to see her, or any mixed tag match for that matter at the PPV (personal).

PG makes the product more accessible to families and broadens the WWE audience. It's also a safer play as they have no real competition (business), but I like my programming edgier and think some of what is put out under the PG banner is corny as hell (personal).

I maintain that turning Cena heel would be good for business and for me as a fan, but I digress there as I've already spoken at length about it.

Whether you stick to one side or another it's still a limited view either way. Labeling the other side as snobby or stubborn or whatever doesn't really change anything.

[Segagendude]

Quote: Originally Posted by Millennium

So, let me geylt this straight. WWE grabs one of the biggest reality stars in history (and I don't even like or watch Jersey Shore) and people are asking why?

And nobody knows why this is.

Anyway..........this match will be nothing more than a "filler" for me. I.e. great time to leave and use the restroom, start the BBQ, etc.

[rangerrick012]

Quote: Originally Posted by Streets

Rick, There are two ways to look at the product and any decision the WWE makes (who should be pushed, who should turn, what storylines are good, etc.). One, is to look at the product from a business perspective (overness, buyrates, ratings, etc.) Then there's looking at decisions and judging them by what we as fans would like to see, and conversely, what we have no interest in seeing. I used to be just like you, preaching the former, and calling everyone who didn't see that keeping Cena face is just good business sense "internet snobs" (though I probably wasn't that harsh). I think I realized that I have no stock in the WWE and thus, it doesn't really matter to me if they get more buys putting Snooki on the card. I can respect it, but I don't have to like it. I'm not going to see any of that extra money. However, there is this rare middle ground that few people tread where you can like something that's bad for business or hate something that's good for business because you're a fan. I'm not talking about the guys who think that everything the WWE does is crap but are the most loyal viewers. Or on the other end, preach that everything the WWE does is great even if you know damn well you don't wanna see it. Here are some examples of business and personal feelings that I have that contradict, but I can accept both. Rey Mysterio is an awesome worker and very underrated (business), but I hate him and the way he is booked (personal) Alberto Del Rio probably shouldn't win at Mania and will most likely end up going the Swagger/Sheamus route if he does (business), but I will mark like crazy if he does win as he is a top 3 favorite of mine (personal). Snooki at Wrestlemania is smart business and will increase buyrates (business), but I can't stand the troll and have no desire to see her, or any mixed tag match for that matter at the PPV (personal). PG makes the product more accessible to families and broadens the WWE audience. It's also a safer play as they have no real competition (business), but I like my programming edgier and think some of what is put out under the PG banner is corny as hell (personal). I maintain that turning Cena heel would be good for business and for me as a fan, but I digress there as I've already spoken at length about it. Whether you stick to one side or another it's still a limited view either way. Labeling the other side as snobby or stubborn or whatever doesn't really change anything.

I respect that, and I actually think I share your view on things. I'm a fan first and foremost, but I also realize the business side of it. I don't want to be too cynical and make it seem like the business side clouds my judgment of the product. FWIW I wasn't trying to label anyone on here as anything, and apologize if I did so.

I actually don't have a problem w/ either side of the coin. I just get tired of folks that overreact w/ stuff like "I'm not buying this, this is a waste of a match, etc" and then end up buying it anyways. It's a hard thing to put my finger on.

I like to think I usually look at things both ways - for instance I like John Cena as a performer, but the way his character is booked at times (Super Cena) does bug me, and some of his promos over the past few weeks have been god awful. Does that mean he should turn heel? Right now, no...but down the line I do think that a Cena heel turn would be great. I even could have went for one during the Nexus angle, even if he just turned back face after a few weeks.

Again, don't want to go too far off topic (as if it matters) - just giving my view on the sensationalism that goes on sometimes around here. I understand people are emotional about the product, which is great. Don't want to come off as if I'm on some sort of high horse either, I'm a fan just like the rest of you. Just have a different perspective.

[Streets]

Quote: Originally Posted by rangerrick012

I respect that, and I actually think I share your view on things. I'm a fan first and foremost, but I also realize the business side of it. I don't want to be too cynical and make it seem like the business side clouds my judgment of the product. FWIW I wasn't trying to label anyone on here as anything, and apologize if I did so. I actually don't have a problem w/ either side of the coin. I just get tired of folks that overreact w/ stuff like "I'm not buying this, this is a waste of a match, etc" and then end up buying it anyways. It's a hard thing to put my finger on. I like to think I usually look at things both ways - for instance I like John Cena as a performer, but the way his character is booked at times (Super Cena) does bug me, and some of his promos over the past few weeks have been god awful. Does that mean he should turn heel? Right now, no...but down the line I do think that a Cena heel turn would be great. I even could have went for one during the Nexus angle, even if he just turned back face after a few weeks. Again, don't want to go too far off topic (as if it matters) - just giving my view on the sensationalism that goes on sometimes around here. I understand people are emotional about the product, which is great. Don't want to come off as if I'm on some sort of high horse either, I'm a fan just like the rest of you. Just have a different perspective.

Nah, you and I are on the same wavelength about the sensationalism that goes on (here and other places). I even wrote an article on it. From a business perspective it makes sense to cater to the casual fans (i.e. Snooki) because the people who are up in arms about it to the point that they are "done with wrestling" or think that it's "the biggest travesty ever" are going to be the first people to buy the PPV and pre-order it on Blu-Ray. So I feel you. I was just defending myself (and any other OSers who sort of think like me) and saying that I am not one of those people. I actually love the WWE and the second it stops being enjoyable, I'll stop. Some act like it's torture at times and yet watch it every week, devote time to comment on it, and buy all the merchandise. I think that's what you were getting at?

[Millennium]

Just curious for everybody with arguing against Snooki: did anybody else hear the pop she got?

Yeah...it was a legit pop. From wrestling fans. In an arena.

I guess wrestling fans really hated her....

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[Streets]

Quote: Originally Posted by Millennium

Just curious for everybody with arguing against snooki: did anybody else here the pop she got? Yeah...it was a legit pop. From wrestling fans. In an arena. I guess wrestling fans really hated her.... Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk

I don't think anyone is arguing her popularity (also, it was smart of them to pit her against the WWE's most over heel). No one is arguing that it doesn't make good business sense either. I think OS is a very large minority of wrestling fan. People in the arenas also boo the Miz and Punk. Legit heat. That doesn't mean that I can't as a fan cheer for those two individuals. The fans loved seeing Lawler in the title hunt. That doesn't mean that I as a fan can not want to see him in a main event match. Everyone can agree that it's good for business, but when it comes to what each of us would like to see individually... different strokes. There really is no "right or wrong". Labels need not apply in this case.

[Millennium]

Quote: Originally Posted by Streets

I don't think anyone is arguing her popularity (also, it was smart of them to pit her against the WWE's most over heel). No one is arguing that it doesn't make good business sense either. I think OS is a very large minority of wrestling fan. People in the arenas also boo the Miz and Punk. Legit heat. That doesn't mean that I can't as a fan cheer for those two individuals. The fans loved seeing Lawler in the title hunt. That doesn't mean that I as a fan can not want to see him in a main event match. Everyone can agree that it's good for business, but when it comes to what each of us would like to see individually... different strokes. There really is no "right or wrong". Labels need not apply in this case.

Not right or wrong. But it really entertains me to see the mob mentality when one person takes a shot across th bow.



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[goh]

Quote: Originally Posted by SmashMan

WWE gets the 'star' of Jersey Shore. TNA gets...the other people? WWE puts Snooki around Trish Stratus, LayCool, Dolph Ziggler and John Morrison (all who obviously will drive the match). TNA surrounds J-Woww/Angelina with the Beautiful People, Sarita, and Cookie. TNA has Angelina call out J-Woww on Impact. This makes no sense. Why would they not just fight on Jersey Shore? They come to TNA to settle their differences? WTF? ...it also would've made 100x more sense if Snooki came to confront Cookie; instead of J-Woww. I'm not going to say Snooki was on my 'dream' WM card for this year, but I'm not bothered by it at all.

Not that specifically. All their celeb attempts.