Madden NFL 13 Video Interview - EA Tiburon Breaks Down Some of the New Changes

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by sgibs7

4 plays 2 runs. 15 plays all season long. its almost like your saying that to play the game right i need to just change my formation (but im good running the same concepts) and im representing football. Why would that be accepted?

Running realtively few concepts while giving different looks is perfectly sim. The entire concept of an air raid offense is based completely on that principle. You run Shallow Cross, Mesh, Drive, Shakes (corner strike), Flanker Drive, Smash, and 4 verticals and you run it out of multiple looks. As for running the ball in this sort of offense, its only done when the offense reads a weakness in the defense. That is perfectly sim in my book.

It becomes unsim when you either don't change looks or only have maybe 2 looks or you come out in say strong close to tell if the cover is man or zone and audible instantly from there into something else. It also strays from sim when there is some tactic that is literally used by everyone because it is so hard to stop.

Of course your talking to the guy who is perfectly fine with a no huddle offense as long as it doesn't involve running a hurry up the entire game.

Sim isn't limited to 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Avoid throwing DT A gap pressure at me, and use real world concepts to play offense and you are playing sim enough for me to say you are sim. Now I'm not overly fond of other defensive tactics like 3 man edge pressure but that is due to how it only works that way because its a DE.

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Ok coachk, you been playing both sides for a while now, as you keep claiming this is not what you or your leagues are about and you clearly have been givein me doubts with questions like these. But to answer your question, coaches call more plays than you guys do and thats for sure. But you never see them running the same exact play over and over and over obtaining the same results. That goes to the blocking all the way down to the guy being open in the exact same spot and space on the field regardless who is covering him. If you do nothing different on defense how can you expect a different result? Like in one of my earlier posts. In HS an opponent ran power on us 43 times! now they scored in 2 plays the first drive....We adjusted and was able to limit the yardage from 15 yds a pop to 10..we kept adjusting and limited it to 5...kept adjusting and limited it to 3.. If we never adjusted they would have scored in another 2 plays.....This goes back to the point that the perception is most sim players just expect things to be done for them.. When does self accountability come into play? not about play numbers lets say we are talking about the run game. Coaches have their handful of concepts, iso,power,trap. And they teach the players the concept and then they use their offensive formations to control the defense in such a way that the rules that they set up can be universally applied as much as possible.. You can see 15 different formations running power but in reality it is the same play for the offense... Same for passing concepts....they teach the concepts and they are now able to run what is the same play from 20 diff formations... but in a particular game plan you wont see all of those formations...You will see the formations that the coaching staff decided were the best to attack the defense that week... In reality they arent running a lot of stuff Come with something better, you not helping the case here at all trying to be funny and stuff. But please let us know which coaches in the NFL use your strategy of madden to coach their games. Was it the Colts, Bronco's, Jax Jags? The bronco's did it for a minute, every caught on and the most elite teams or coaches shut them down. Enlighten me, or dont come with none of your snarky remarks!

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[KOACHK]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Ok coachk, you been playing both sides for a while now, as you keep claiming this is not what you or your leagues are about and you clearly have been givein me doubts with questions like these.

Our leagues are a place where people can test and improve their game without the nonsense people have to go through in other places; especially not having to deal with extremely sore losers. We have rules, and expect our members to abide by them. That's how it's always been. Not sure how that's "playing both sides".

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

But to answer your question, coaches call more plays than you guys do and thats for sure. But you never see them running the same exact play over and over and over obtaining the same results. That goes to the blocking all the way down to the guy being open in the exact same spot and space on the field regardless who is covering him..

We usually don't play 15 minute quarter games Smoke; of course we wouldn't call as many plays as a coach would on the actual gridiron; but we're alson not going to be make our playcalling "random for the sake of randomness" just to entertain our opponent. The object is to win the game, not entertain our opponent. Competing in of itself should be entertainment enough to someone playing this game.

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Come with something better, you not helping the case here at all trying to be funny and stuff. But please let us know which coaches in the NFL use your strategy of madden to coach their games. Was it the Colts, Bronco's, Jax Jags? The bronco's did it for a minute, every caught on and the most elite teams or coaches shut them down.

Nothing wrong with a little humor to get a point accross sometimes Smokey! -Take some time out to laugh a little; you seeing red all the time can't be good for your blood pressure.

How could I know if an NFL coach uses my exact way of scheming and playcalling? It's just like saying you know exactly how many different plays a coach on the actual gridiron calls in a game. One thing's for sure; NFL coaches aren't following the "random for the sake of randomness" school of thought when it comes to playcalling. Many times coaches are calling the same plays out of multiple formations and packages based off of their gameplanning for that weeks game. Those coaches must have done a good job fooling you and alot of others to think that they're calling a billion different plays, when they're actually just giving you varied looks with different formations and personnel packages.

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Enlighten me, or dont come with none of your snarky remarks!

Snarky = Doesn't agree with you. -Got it.

I heart you too Smokey

[Smoke6]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

Sorry if this post doesnt make a ton of sense when read in full but I use the dashes to break up different thought points =============== If you see the same routes/plays used against you it is for a reason..... Tourney players set up offensive plays to attack your defense.. Different players set up plays differently but they have the same overlying theme a play has 5 eligible receivers..Now with those receivers I can make a play that can beat cover 3,2,4, and man coverage...And guess what it is fundamentally sound X's and O's wise X-------LB------00000--------A----------B --------------------Q --------------------Y B- curl A- seam Y- flat LB- in route X- streak A+B+Y= curl flat route combo that beats cover 3 with the curl cover4 with the flat cover 2 with the seam and can beat man with the curl Lb's in route is another viable option vs man because of the players inside break X's streak is just for spacing this play is something that can be run over and over and it is X's and O's wise 100% realistic... and something that you would see in a NFL playbook....But prob X's route would be a dig for the FOLLOW ROUTE COMBO it is up to you to make adjustments to your defense to defend it... Just like how I posted a couple of pages back about how my High School defense only played cover 3 and had certain rules for offensive sets, think of those as madden adjustments....Its like finding the pieces to the puzzle. The offensive play above can be cracked..you just have to make the defensive rules to defend it.....If you dont defend it JUST LIKE IN REAL LIFE you will see it over and over until you do. If you keep running pure man you will keep getting an offensive play that will beat it..its up to you to complete the puzzle you need to stop it.. Same with pure cover 2..if you keep running it you will get plays over and over that will take advantage of your deep safeties coverage... X--------------LB------00000------------A-------------B ---------------------------Q ---------------------------Y if your in cover 2 you will keep seeing X-streak LB- in route A- post B- streak Y- block I will run streaks to take care of your safeties and run a post right between them......If your MLB covers it than the in route will be open where he left or I could run 4 verts and put the running back on a curl....same thing if you dont defend it thats all you will see just like in real life.. on coachhuey.com there are threads made over and over again about "what do you do vs cover 3/4/2?" anf guess what? those guys answer and say if I get__________ I will run________ until they stop it Its realistic.....And if you get the same routes/plays over and over its being called for a reason... ======================= madden is a competitive played game. Just like with EVERY OTHER competitive played game the players will do everything within the rules to win. Same with Halo, COD, 2k basketball, street fighter/any fighting game...it doesnt matter. If it is competitively played than players will do everything within the rules to get a victory. The only thing that sim players can really use as a argument in their favor is the fact that madden is TRYING to replicate a simulation of the sport of football therefore it should be played like football. (sidenote: a good amount of of sim league rules do not replicate football..but thats neither here nor there) Now at the end of the day it comes down to what can and what cant be done in the game..That falls on EA's shoulders. Despite what you guys thing EA making a move towards a more realistic game is what the MAJORITY of tourney players want. But its no use in breaking down AGAIN why tourney players want a realistic game because every time I type it out people just dismiss it. But these players can only do what the game allows them to do. You cant RC if its not possible to RC..you get my point (sidenote: the RC in M12 is not even worth the effort to pull it off.....and if you get hit in the act you drop the ball most times...if your OPP is RC'ing they would have made the catch regardless because out 8/10 times their guy was open) Even the shake blitz (which a lot of tourney guys hate themselves) the reason that it is used is because It has NOT BEEN FIXED IN 3 YEARS...And it isnt the blitz itself thats the issue, its the fact that the blitzers are already accelerated by the time the ball is snapped because of the movement from shake.. A lot of what tourney player hate it? From what I read and of those i have played over at VG like demondogdfm, he used the hell out of it when he played me, then went on to brag about it and still call me weak for not knowing how to defend against it. I mean what do you want me to say man, when half the guys on that site come out and say when they face someone who is giving them some sort of challenge they start to pull out the BS! But at the end of the day is it the players fault that things like that have not been addressed? If there is a map glitch in call of duty is it the players fault if it isnt fixed 3 months into the game? Hell yea it is, you have the power to control yourself from not using it, so why blame the dev for not addressing something they couldnt imagine replicating unless one of you guys were there showing them how to. Its called restraint, but because something is there doenst mean you should use it. If thats the case you should be a messed up individual with that though process. better yet, let me come over and you leave your keys to your new car lying around, is it my fault I take them and your car out for a spin and drive like im playing CRAZY TAXI? Get real, this is just a beat around the bush argument you are making to make yourself feel good about condoning or playing that way. =================== But here is where the developers are put in a catch 22, damned if they do damned if they dont in regards to blitzing... No Defensive tackles SHOULD NOT be the players who come free in blitzes.. ANd that needs to be fixed. But there are no protection rules set in madden and I myself would like Big on Big priorities ... Lineman are bigger threats than LBs and focus on picking them up first. Yes, and I can tell you lack football knowledge on every position of the sport! As a linemen, you are coached to get a hand on a rusher even if he isnt your assignment, its to help buy some time for someone else to pick him up or for the QB to make a play. In madden this does not happen and the way players run into a wall at full speed and proceed right after that at full speed and not slowing down and re-gaining that momentum is the problem too. I bet you would cut out some of this crap if the oline got a hand on your free man and threw him off course to buy enough time for my QB or HB to make a play! ============ But the devs cant fix what Sim Players want them to fix without compromising FOOTBALL. If I send 4 rushers to your 3 blockers a player NEEDS to come free.... What I posted above, you can send 4 all day against 3, not having to slow down or regain momentum makes this issue even more worse when you look at it from that perspective. Thats why you have teams that dont even rush that many to begin with because the Line coach does his job at coaching his players. You can be creative or have someone get by with great technique like Peppers, Lewis, Suggs and Willis, but you are not going to do all this with teams and players who are not know for that type of gameplay like you can in madden! If you dont slide protect or have equal blockers WHO CAN MAKE THE BLOCK there needs to be a guy free.. Not all the time, the thing is you know the work arounds to this, so once you see it get picked up you have other means of making it work that are unrealistic aswell. If the OL just magically makes the adjustments THAT THE USER SHOULD HAVE and they pick the blitz up they compromise FOOTBALL. We dont want it done for ourselves, the AI should accomodate fundamental o line blocking techniques before they decide to move to the next level and block someone who's not even a threat yet. But this brings me to another point at a later time! (and honestly we have almost been to that point with backside tackles and guards magically running to the opp side of the field to pick up blocks) And tourney players feel like sim players DO NOT TAKE IT UPON THEMSELVES to set up their protections or hot reads like they need to to be successful.. We do, you guys know the ins and outs of the game in order to exploit it (see link to TGL what will you do first) and from their its business as usual. But let me tell you this, that same mentality you have for us should work the other way around first before you get all like "damn, EA still cant get pass rushing right" and decide to just look for the easiest way to stop your opponent. It you guys who go about finding these exploits in the first place, we're the ones that use the tools given to simulate the game of football only to get crushed from someone who hates losing or a particular part of the game doesnt work to your liking. WE DONT FAULTER LIKE THAT AND SAY SCREW EVERYONE!!! THAT SIM PLAYERS JUST WANT IT TO MAGICALLY HAPPEN...Thats how tourney players feel. No, you guys want that, if not then you guys wouldnt be finding ways to nano blitz or see if old glitches and gimmicks work so you can use them instead of playing the game like it should be played first. Why do you keep blaming SIM players when its not our crowd playing or donning the "freestyle" term? And there is NO BLITZ that can not be handled in madden. You can pick every thing up or you can have your hot reads ready to make the Defense pay for trying your knowledge... Then why bother with trying find and use old nano blitzes then is everything a so capable of being picked up? Once again, you are trying to sleep well at night! Even in those blitzes that DTs come free if you were to look at the after game replays you would still see a blitzers number advantage vs blockers...SOMEBODY WOULD HAVE COME FREE...regardless

Once again, I stated this twice or so already, you are singing to the choir up to the point where I ask you the question of "whats the point of nano blitzing, turbo blitzing, and running a manually controlled player thru the LOS the moment the ball is hiked? What good is it to shake blitz glitch? You guys cant take competition let alone from a SIM player who seems to be giving you problems on the field. Its just a matter of time before the gimmicks come out and i have seen it countless times!

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by baller7345

Running realtively few concepts while giving different looks is perfectly sim. The entire concept of an air raid offense is based completely on that principle. You run Shallow Cross, Mesh, Drive, Shakes (corner strike), Flanker Drive, Smash, and 4 verticals and you run it out of multiple looks. As for running the ball in this sort of offense, its only done when the offense reads a weakness in the defense. That is perfectly sim in my book. It becomes unsim when you either don't change looks or only have maybe 2 looks or you come out in say strong close to tell if the cover is man or zone and audible instantly from there into something else. It also strays from sim when there is some tactic that is literally used by everyone because it is so hard to stop. Of course your talking to the guy who is perfectly fine with a no huddle offense as long as it doesn't involve running a hurry up the entire game. Sim isn't limited to 3 yards and a cloud of dust. Avoid throwing DT A gap pressure at me, and use real world concepts to play offense and you are playing sim enough for me to say you are sim. Now I'm not overly fond of other defensive tactics like 3 man edge pressure but that is due to how it only works that way because its a DE.

So your saying that when a team
-comes out in a formation,
-motions a WR to get a man or zone read
-changes their play based on that info

that it isnt sim?.....than I guess the entire NFL isnt playing sim because you see it every week, multiple times a game...

The 08 Pats were freaking masters of that

What do you think that motion is used for when the receiver motions in a couple of steps?

He either motions in a couple of steps and sets.....allowing the offense to get into a play for the coverage.

or he will go in notion and the QB will physically audible into a better look

You wont see a game on tv where that isnt happening 1/3 of the passing plays minimum

[KOACHK]

RIP MCA!



-Any of you that have put in some actual time playing Madden will understand ...

[baller7345]

Quote: Originally Posted by WFColonel56

So your saying that when a team -comes out in a formation, -motions a WR to get a man or zone read -changes their play based on that info that it isnt sim?.....than I guess the entire NFL isnt playing sim because you see it every week, multiple times a game... The 08 Pats were freaking masters of that What do you think that motion is used for when the receiver motions in a couple of steps? He either motions in a couple of steps and sets.....allowing the offense to get into a play for the coverage. or he will go in notion and the QB will physically audible into a better look You wont see a game on tv where that isnt happening 1/3 of the passing plays minimum

Did I ever say that using motion to determine if its man or zone isn't sim. I was referring to how players can come out in bunch or strong close and before they even line up know if its man or zone. You can run bunch and audible before the other team knows whats going on in terms of coverage before either team lines up completely. Also Madden is very basic at disguising your coverages, its one of the reasons so many people are happy that they are implementing zone swapping this year.

[WFColonel56]

Quote: Originally Posted by Smoke6

Once again, I stated this twice or so already, you are singing to the choir up to the point where I ask you the question of "whats the point of nano blitzing, What is a nano? define it for me turbo blitzing, I dnt use the Dpad so i dnt even know if turno blitzing is even in the game...If it is than I havent faced it.. Or if I have I havent noticed it, and that alone means it is a non factor.....Again considering I am playing "the cheesiest of the cheesiest" and running a manually controlled player thru the LOS the moment the ball is hiked? Banned in tourneys....no tourney player would waste their time doing something they cant use in a tourney... What good is it to shake blitz glitch? I have explained this over and over...If something isnt banned in competitive play than it will be used..simple as that You guys cant take competition let alone from a SIM player who seems to be giving you problems on the field. Its just a matter of time before the gimmicks come out and i have seen it countless times! I could take a low blow but I wont go there

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