Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

[TombSong]

I made a post pointing to game features that I feel are needed in any football game because they are features that are apart of real football. I point out how older football games had those features and madden does not. I also pointed out thingsm that need to be addressed in madden. No one speaks to those issues. Instead they want to argue about why madden is compared to older games instead of the talking points. Like some of you did not like things in older games, there are some of us that dont like what we are seeing in this new game. Why cant we say that without being targeted for having agendas or hating ?

This is a forum. If you dont like what someone is saying you can choose to post why you disagree or you can ignore it. Why do we have people policing other peoples views of the game ? Then you got the dr. Phils who think they can tell you why you post what you post as if they are mind readers and are wrong as wrong can be and are they themselves the main reason why a lot of threads end up off topic.

That said, this madden 12 demo has shown the game has improved in some areas and is still lagging behind the times in others. Thats how i feel about it.

[adfletch71]

Im a 2k5 football game fan. I have been on this forum for 6 years debating, pleading and hoping that EA get it right. Madden has made positive changes over the 6 years on next-gen, put they have been stagnate in others. I listen to some guys and wonder, do they actually care about quality or just that is the NFL and they need there fix. For some that have played 2k5 and know about the immersion of the game, presentation and overall gameplay, all we want is the same for MADDEN.

Even though Madden is the only game on the NFL market, that doesn't mean I have to settle for whatever they give and just say" OHH it's the only NFL game or Just use sliders to help fix the skating and other things that stick there ugly head up. When Ian made that statement that" He was going to make us forget about NFL2k5, I was hopefully because he said he played it a lot and understood what people was talking about. Well it's Madden12 and from the demo, they have improved, just are missing a lot of fundamentals as well.

I think is because a lot of people on this forum have been playing Madden exclusively on consoles and never got outside of the gameplay and presentation it offers. If u played NFL2k5 and ALLPRO2k8 and they where flawed in areas too, but the overall experience they bring too football fundamentals are unparalleled on current-gen consoles. The gameplay aspect of ALLPRO2k8 is tremendous with there OL/DL interactions, WR/CB interactions, foot planting, animations, difference between players, sideline interactions..etc. NFL2k5 presentation is still unmatched even with NBA2k11 and THE SHOW at the helm.

All I want is MADDEN to get too that level where I can say 2k5 your irreverent, ALLPRO2k8 your on the shelf. There nothing wrong with debate and constructive criticism, so that will continue until MADDEN get it right, because we can't compare other MADDENS to current, because they have been so fundamentally bad. So until madden gets " True too the GAME", I'll keep debating. SHOOT, I can't get a pass interference call to save my life....lol

[CRMosier_LM]

Quote: Originally Posted by adfletch71

Im a 2k5 football game fan. I have been on this forum for 6 years debating, pleading and hoping that EA get it right. Madden has made positive changes over the 6 years on next-gen, put they have been stagnate in others. I listen to some guys and wonder, do they actually care about quality or just that is the NFL and they need there fix. For some that have played 2k5 and know about the immersion of the game, presentation and overall gameplay, all we want is the same for MADDEN. Even though Madden is the only game on the NFL market, that doesn't mean I have to settle for whatever they give and just say" OHH it's the only NFL game or Just use sliders to help fix the skating and other things that stick there ugly head up. When Ian made that statement that" He was going to make us forget about NFL2k5, I was hopefully because he said he played it a lot and understood what people was talking about. Well it's Madden12 and from the demo, they have improved, just are missing a lot of fundamentals as well. I think is because a lot of people on this forum have been playing Madden exclusively on consoles and never got outside of the gameplay and presentation it offers. If u played NFL2k5 and ALLPRO2k8 and they where flawed in areas too, but the overall experience they bring too football fundamentals are unparalleled on current-gen consoles. The gameplay aspect of ALLPRO2k8 is tremendous with there OL/DL interactions, WR/CB interactions, foot planting, animations, difference between players, sideline interactions..etc. NFL2k5 presentation is still unmatched even with NBA2k11 and THE SHOW at the helm. All I want is MADDEN to get too that level where I can say 2k5 your irreverent, ALLPRO2k8 your on the shelf. There nothing wrong with debate and constructive criticism, so that will continue until MADDEN get it right, because we can't compare other MADDENS to current, because they have been so fundamentally bad. So until madden gets " True too the GAME", I'll keep debating. SHOOT, I can't get a pass interference call to save my life....lol

The issue isn't whether some likes 2k or not. The issue is that this is an impression thread for the Madden 12 demo. Talk of other games has no place in this thread. Go to the 2k forum to discuss 2k. No one will jump on you here off you don't lime this or that about the Madden 12 demo, but when you start comparing it to a game that most of us thought wasn't very good then oh will have people all over you. Especially since it is basically against the TOS to do so. You don't see us in the 2K threads or people in the tiger woods threads talking about golden tee do you? I understand you folks are bitter about not having the game you love anymore but put the blame where It Is due... And that is on 2K and the NFL. It's not EA's fault that 2k cheapened the NFL brand by dropping the price because they couldnt compete in sales.

[adfletch71]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

The issue isn't whether some likes 2k or not. The issue is that this is an impression thread for the Madden 12 demo. Talk of other games has no place in this thread. Go to the 2k forum to discuss 2k. No one will jump on you here off you don't lime this or that about the Madden 12 demo, but when you start comparing it to a game that most of us thought wasn't very good then oh will have people all over you. Especially since it is basically against the TOS to do so. You don't see us in the 2K threads or people in the tiger woods threads talking about golden tee do you? I understand you folks are bitter about not having the game you love anymore but put the blame where It Is due... And that is on 2K and the NFL. It's not EA's fault that 2k cheapened the NFL brand by dropping the price because they couldnt compete in sales.

LOL...Hey CR.

Why would u be in the 2k threads, 2k doesn't make NFL games anymore. OHHH that's right, EA is the only one. So with that, will continue to debate and give opinions.

[bucky60]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

The issue isn't whether some likes 2k or not. The issue is that this is an impression thread for the Madden 12 demo. Talk of other games has no place in this thread.

I think it does if it has a direct relationship to areas that Madden needs to improve. Giving examples is the best way to illustrate something and make it easy for others to understand. So it really is talking about Madden when you compare features and game play to other games.

Seems you just don't like when someone tactfully illustrates a deficiency in Madden. Me, I encourage it. Hopefully it helps the game improve.

But hey, at least you didn't call the guy stupid.

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by CRMosier_LM

I understand you folks are bitter about not having the game you love anymore but put the blame where It Is due... And that is on 2K and the NFL. It's not EA's fault that 2k cheapened the NFL brand by dropping the price because they couldnt compete in sales.

*sigh*

Again, suspend belief/common sense and don't factor in NCAA exclusivity either. Or the documented evidence of what really occurred between summer '04 and spring '05. Nobody's saying "I'll only be happy if 2K comes back!". The criticisms, which you so conveniently duck and hide behind with the bitterness view, are the issues people have with Madden itself.

[bichettehappens]

That poor dead horse...

[Yeah...THAT Guy]

Quote: Originally Posted by adfletch71

Im a 2k5 football game fan. I have been on this forum for 6 years debating, pleading and hoping that EA get it right. Madden has made positive changes over the 6 years on next-gen, put they have been stagnate in others. I listen to some guys and wonder, do they actually care about quality or just that is the NFL and they need there fix. For some that have played 2k5 and know about the immersion of the game, presentation and overall gameplay, all we want is the same for MADDEN. Even though Madden is the only game on the NFL market, that doesn't mean I have to settle for whatever they give and just say" OHH it's the only NFL game or Just use sliders to help fix the skating and other things that stick there ugly head up. When Ian made that statement that" He was going to make us forget about NFL2k5, I was hopefully because he said he played it a lot and understood what people was talking about. Well it's Madden12 and from the demo, they have improved, just are missing a lot of fundamentals as well. I think is because a lot of people on this forum have been playing Madden exclusively on consoles and never got outside of the gameplay and presentation it offers. If u played NFL2k5 and ALLPRO2k8 and they where flawed in areas too, but the overall experience they bring too football fundamentals are unparalleled on current-gen consoles. The gameplay aspect of ALLPRO2k8 is tremendous with there OL/DL interactions, WR/CB interactions, foot planting, animations, difference between players, sideline interactions..etc. NFL2k5 presentation is still unmatched even with NBA2k11 and THE SHOW at the helm. All I want is MADDEN to get too that level where I can say 2k5 your irreverent, ALLPRO2k8 your on the shelf. There nothing wrong with debate and constructive criticism, so that will continue until MADDEN get it right, because we can't compare other MADDENS to current, because they have been so fundamentally bad. So until madden gets " True too the GAME", I'll keep debating. SHOOT, I can't get a pass interference call to save my life....lol

I own just about every football game that has come out on the Xbox 360, from Backbreaker, to Blitz the League 1 and 2, to NFL 2k5, APF 2k8, and all the Maddens and NCAAs.

Really, there's aspects from each game that are significantly better than the rest of the competition. NFL 2k5, the halftime show was a breakthrough in sports gaming, and I think two of the other things that they nailed that people don't really remember was the depth chart (pretty sure if you ran a 3-4 defense it changed the depth chart to picking which spot each ILB would play, which side each corner would play, etc. They also had some great replay angles, like the one that was basically a camera suspended above the field (just like they had in real life at the time). However, there were some major flaws, mainly being the corner routes (they got open on those just about every single time), and some of the animations were just too long (I remember trying to roll out or throw on the run took an eternity if I recall correctly), not to mention that I personally hated having to mash the A button to run.

With APF, that last issue was still there, but the way the pocket formed was the best of any football game I've played. The commentary in both 2k games were pretty bad, and I remember being able to basically run the same few plays over and over and they'd work every time. A couple other issues was that the game was just painfully slow, and having to charge up to make accurate throws or juke moves and stuff was just dumb. If I remember correctly though, the gang tackling was pretty great in this version of the game.

With Backbreaker, obviously the tackles are unparralleled in any game. Backbreaker offers so many moments that just make you "Wow" because you'll get a play that you never would get in any other football game, but unfortunately, the physics are overdone, the passing system needs a lot of work, and the defense seems to be overpowered.

With Blitz the League, I loved the immersion of the campaign mode, but obviously, it's nowhere near sim.

NCAA does a nice job with the ESPN Headlines and things like that that keep you immersed in the game, but I'll leave it at that since it isn't an NFL game.

And then you have Madden, which from the looks of it, seems to the best total package. Pockets don't form as well as they did in APF, but in Madden 12, they seem to form pretty well; I've found myself stepping up into the pocket to make throws a lot. The tackling isn't near the level of Backbreaker, and the gang tackles aren't as good as APF was, but the overall tackle animations and their ability to chain off of each other is better than APF (still not on Backbreaker's level obviously). The game speed (if you set it on slow) is much better than the 2k games were, and it seems to be the most realistic of any of the games personally. The defensive line play seems to be better in Madden 12 than any of the previous Maddens, and better than 2k in my opinion as well (although 2k did a much better job implementing things like DL Stunts, and the ability to call for a certain coverage and a certain DL play at the same time.) 2k did a better job with the animations where the ball would be tipped and the WR would adjust and make the catch (whereas it still looks extremely awkward in Madden), but the other catch animations are much better in Madden than they were in APF in my opinion. Screen passes (both slip screens and WR screens) worked much better in Madden than they did in APF, although 2k also had shovel passes which was something Madden hasn't done). 2k also seemed to do a better job of having players react in a realistic manner to pump fakes or actual passes and stuff (no super LBs). But all in all, if Madden's franchise additions work the way they did in HC09, I think their franchise mode blows all of the other football games out of the water, and their gameplay does too. Madden 12 also has a better overall presentation than 2k did in my opinion. While 2k's replay angle that I referred to before was great, and the halftime show was great, Madden's cut scenes, various replay angles, and the different ambiences (the player intro's and blimp view, etc, are significantly better than every other football game on the market.