Staff Roundtable: Madden NFL 12 Demo Impressions

[spankdatazz22]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

As far as Madden 12 vs. 2k5, personally i think that argument has been put to bed. Well in theory, as I haven't played the M12 retail version yet. I think what drives 2k5's enduring legacy has nothing to do with the actual game of Madden, but the anger that revolves around the license deal itself. Which I understand. What I don't understand is why EA is solely blamed for that deal. As if EA somehow had the ability to strong arm the NFL in to making that deal. Stupid.

It's really not just about 2K5; there are many times people bring up last gen Madden/NCAA, Backbreaker, or APF as examples also. That's why I used Inside Drive as an example. If The Show and MLB2K hadn't evolved beyond what MVP was doing, people would still be posting movies and wishing the game were still around. People actually do wish MVP was around, it's just that there are options that evolved beyond what MVP was. Madden really hasn't evolved beyond those games. People can make the case the OL/DL play was much better in 2K5 or APF. Or that the passing game/movement/sense of momentum better in last gen Madden/NCAA. Or that tackling better in Backbreaker. I'm not even sure tackling in Madden this year is beyond than what was being done in 2K5. From what I understand Frachise was much deeper in last gen Madden/NCAA. Madden/NCAA had far more extras like create-a-play, deep practice modes, etc. 2K5 and APF have far deeper penalty/challenge systems. While Presentation is much improved in M12, sadly we're still hearing excuses about the play-by-play. And halftime/postgame may as well be non-existent.

EA gets blame for the exclusive deal because most of the evidence points to their putting enough money on the table to make the deals difficult/impossible to refuse. By their own admission they were seeking exclusivity years before it happened. In order to believe EA doesn't foster most of the blame, you have to be willing to accept them signing the NCAA to an exclusive contract within a month (?) of the NFL exclusivity as simply being a coincidence. Most of us that around back then knew everything was in play; they were in active talks going after NBA exclusivity during that same period also.

That said I don't think people would care as much about exclusivity if they were producing a great game. It's not like Madden's retained the standing it had last gen - many people that dislike what the game became are Madden fans themselves.

[K_GUN]

I was a 2k5 fanboy...go look up my posts

I think what guys like IntAssassin will find is that from here on out the *2k5 fan club* will continue to get smaller and smaller.

they are certainly entitled to express their opinion....but in time, nobody will be around to listen

[Lange248]

I think this years Madden is going to be awesome; I'm enjoying the demo a lot. It has the feel of an older Madden game to me. The game-plan reminds me of Tecmo Ball as far the pace of the game. I will be playing the retail game with no commentary however, I think that's what has been bugging me about the current Madden.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

I thought we threw realism out the door when we sat down to play a video game. If you want a realistic game of football, get some friends together and go play outside?

If I want realism go play real football? Is that seriously your response? Yes, I am fully aware that it would be more realistic to play football in the real world, thank you. But are you advocating for not pushing realism, because after all, it's only a video game? Have you played The Show? With that attitude, I'm sure glad you're not the lead designer of these games...

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

Nevertheless, determining the "realism" of a video game is indeed subjective; some of us have more (or less) insight as to what goes on on a football field than others, some of us want a low-scoring defensive chess match, some of us want domed high-scoring track meets, some of us want to grind it out with the run, some of us want to air it out all day.

That's exactly the problem with the game. All of these things are realistic, and how good your players are should determine what happens. But they don't, what level you play on and your sliders determine how the game turns out the majority of the time. That's not realistic.

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

If someone doesn't get his desired result out of the game, he deems it "unrealistic" because it doesn't do what he expects it to do, whereas someone else with a different ideal can just as well call the same result the unsatisfied user got "realistic". How is that NOT subjective?

That's a pretty weak way to make your argument, and it doesn't make much sense either. I've gotten my desired result plenty of times while still understanding it didn't happen in a realistic way. Is Cutler breaking 3 tackles on one play realistic just because I'm a Bears fan?

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

To your point, an argument that player movement in Madden is realistic insofar as the players walk, run, strafe, play zone coverage, run route, block, shed blocks, jump, catch, tackle, break tackles, etc. etc. None of the movements the players make are non-football movements; you don't see Sonic the Hedgehog flippy jumps, for example.

Are you really going to argue the player movement is realistic? They may not do flippy jumps like Sonic, but they sure as hell zig zag like him.

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

The argument that Madden is not a better game than it was even a year ago, let alone five or six, is simply bananas.

1. I never made that argument, I said it's not much better

2. Calling it better from where it was isn't exactly saying all that much. It was absolute crap at one point.

Quote: Originally Posted by CHooe

And let's be honest, many people still talk about the other game because they are still bitter at the exclusive license situation and that has soured their respective opinions on the Madden franchise.

Another generalization. Am I bitter about exclusivity? I wouldn't even say bitter, just annoyed. But I'm still able to look at Madden subjectively, and dislike the game and the license as two separate entities.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Quote: Originally Posted by bkrich83

I believe we would still be talking about 2k5 no matter how great it was. I believe there are people here, who even if EA made the greatest football game ever made would still criticize it and compare it to 2k5 simply because of the license.

Well then you couldn't be further off base. You think people actually come here to criticize Madden just for ****s and giggles? HAHA! We're criticizing Madden because it needs to be criticized, and the fact that we're able to illustrate our point by comparing it to a game made for PS2 should be all the proof you need that it is in need of criticism.

[IntellectualAssassin]

Quote: Originally Posted by K_GUN

I was a 2k5 fanboy...go look up my posts I think what guys like IntAssassin will find is that from here on out the *2k5 fan club* will continue to get smaller and smaller. they are certainly entitled to express their opinion....but in time, nobody will be around to listen

Again, I'm more anti-Madden then I am pro-2K5.

[bichettehappens]

Quote: Originally Posted by IntellectualAssassin

That's exactly the problem with the game. All of these things are realistic, and how good your players are should determine what happens. But they don't, what level you play on and your sliders determine how the game turns out the majority of the time. That's not realistic.

?????

Having to use sliders or change difficulty level makes the game unrealistic??

[IntellectualAssassin]

Quote: Originally Posted by spankdatazz22

That said I don't think people would care as much about exclusivity if they were producing a great game. It's not like Madden's retained the standing it had last gen - many people that dislike what the game became are Madden fans themselves.

Great post, but especially this last part. I don't get why they don't understand this. We don't hate that EA has the exclusive license. We hate that EA has the exclusive license and sits on it.