Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games

[xbreezex]

that's why its a game and that's why business is business, lets get real. if i can get $60 a disc for something that isn't good and millions will buy, why not? you take the action and deal with out the game. you make them change.

[elgreazy1]

Just had a game with a Friend of mine in APF2K8 and he had a stacked defense. His stat line for Reggie White: 4 sacks, 7 tackles, and constant pressure. I had to shift a TE to his side AND leave in a RB to block (ie: 3 on 1) just to contain the guy. I think 2K's system works just fine.

[RazzBerry80]

Quote: Originally Posted by AzureEffect

2K has done it most effectively on this generation of consoles. It can be done; question is...will we ever see it again.

This! We know it can be done. Come on Madden, you can do it.

[jyoung]

The "fast" game speed was pretty good in APF 2K8 for improving the pass rush, but the problem it created was that WRs ran their routes ridiculously fast.

A gold WR in APF 2K8 already can run a 20-yard post route in 1 - 2 seconds on "normal" speed, which is part of the reason why the 4-man pass rush in the game in so ineffective.

The slow pass rush speed in APF 2K8 just isn't synched very well to the fast WRs' route running speed.

[catcatch22]

Quote: Originally Posted by wEEman33

The "fast" game speed was pretty good in APF 2K8 for improving the pass rush, but the problem it created was that WRs ran their routes ridiculously fast. A gold WR in APF 2K8 already can run a 20-yard post route in 1 - 2 seconds on "normal" speed, which is part of the reason why the 4-man pass rush in the game in so ineffective. The (slow) pass rush speed in APF 2K8 just isn't synched very well to the (fast) WRs' route running speed.

Which is why there are bump masters to derail those quick routes, unfortunately just like the inconsistency of the pass rush the "bump" is so random.

I can see what 2k was trying to do to balance the game but yeah they should have given the defense a bit more tools. The defense is constantly trying to keep up with the offense and the offense does not have to do "as much" to keep up with the defense at times.

[wonderl33t]

The author apparently hasn't played NCAA on heisman difficulty. You get about 2 seconds of protection on average.

[BezO]

I can see EA thinking this way. Much, if not all of the programming is based on this idea. Pass rushing would be no different.

But like others have said, that's what difficulty settings are for.

And I think EA forgets that gamers play defense too, or at least would like to. Being glued to offensive linemen, playing patty cake, is equally frustrating. I just think gamers have become accustomed to it. Everyone just picks the pre-packaged defenses, hopes & waits for their turn on offense.

[silence1206]

I think this article remotely touches some of points made in the OP, and why I'm currently a bit of a disgruntled gamer: http://www.tweaktown.com/articles/39...k_gaming_tech/

Point being, I want my gaming experience to be challenging--And when it comes to football gaming, realistic in every possible aspect. I want to know that I'm playing a game that will stomp my face in if I play like a mindless jack ***. That said, I also understand the gamers who just want to jump in and play some relaxing arcade style football. The only sad thing is that sim-heads have no up-to-date NFL games to get their football fix with. At the very least, it would be comforting to have more options.

One thing that all football games have utterly failed to do is coach up the user in an intuitive way. Madden has the offensive coordinator voice-over and some voice-overs from madden saying "do this" or "do that". But, really, these are very generic instructions that don't get into divulging the subtle details of the game which is really the game's heart and soul. It's not just about the stats sheet at the end looking realistic. It should be about the user knowing enough about defensive alignments and coverages to be able to be successful against the opponent (from either side of the ball). For more casual gamers, if they could be coached up to understand these subtleties, they may find that a deeper more realistic game would not be a frustrating deterrent, but an enjoyable exercise in learning the details that go into making an amazing sport enjoyable to watch/play. (for instance, better knowing the situation they are in in the game, and knowing how to call the right play for the situation--the smarter decision sometimes being the one geared to gaining field position before punting, instead of expecting to get a first down)

In games like 2k5/2k8 or BB, I've seen defenses that absolutely take over a game and constantly forcing me to make descisions I don't want to make. (That doesn't mean I have to roll over and lose the game. It just means I needed to make decisions based on knowing my opponent and finding a way to win in tough, high pressure situations.) Oh, that LB just shot through my line and disrupted my run off tackle. Or, there's a CB coming on a blitz that I don't have enough men to block, so I'm going to have to get the ball out real fast, and possibly have to just take an incompletion instead of gunning the ball into tight coverage. Or, maybe it's just dynamic line play that wound up pressuring me to step up in the pocket, roll out, scramble, or release the ball when I really didn't want to. That's real football, and I've thoroughly enjoyed games that force me to learn to deal with these factors.

It is my perspective that, as a gamer interacting with any sports game, I feel it is much more rewarding to come away with the W in a game that was played realistically. Maybe I had to snatch victory from the jaws of defeat, as I picked off a pass from Dan Marino in the endzone and then was able to run it back for a TD. Maybe my D-Line made a clutch sack that put the opponent out of FG range. If I knew these types of amazing plays were the result of some cheesy unrealistic player interctions (like an LB that jumps 20 feet in the air to make a 1-handed interception, or blockers that morph through/around their assignment), then I would feel no sense of reward for the result of the play, good or bad. At least with other games, when I get beat, and can simply accept that I didn't make the right decisions to win. When it comes to madden, it's usually more like "did the AI not fail me enough to allow the opponent to win"

The game I play most these days is APF 2k8. And, I've read other's comments in this thread citing the crazy things that happen with gold-star players. For one thing, I must say, playing with the right sliders will greatly reduce these types of things. (Personally, the best results I've seen is all sliders at 0 except interceptions, fumbles and fatigue) With the right sliders, you will find that selecting legend linemen is not a wasted pick. Secondly, you need to know how to adjust your coverage. The best way to be successful in 2k football games is to get better on defense. Roll your coverage over to the side where there are more receiver threats. Shift to a cover-1 on plays you expect to see a run from the CPU. Slider your D-Line. Send an LB on a delayed blitz. And, being that it's a video game, know that there are some routes that the AI will consistently fail to cover very well, and that you need to be able to manually use your defender to cover this loop-hole. Do these things right, and you will be able to significantly quell any of the oddities that come up against gold-star opponents.

In the end, articles like the one written by the OP frustrate me. Not because I don't understand his point. His point is valid. There will always be gamers who want an arcade style football game. The thing that frustrates me is knowing that, because of the exclusive NFL license, we gamers are left without any choice to see if more realistic NFL football titles would find their way to success as heralded as EA's with madden. At the very least, every gamer deserves to have the freedom to choose between multiple titles to get their football fix. Right now, we do not.