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videlsports · 03-31-2011, 10:17 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by poopoop


	This article is misleading. I don't believe the reason line play isn't realistic is because it'd make the game too difficult. I believe the reason is that EA is just unable to replicate line play in their games. Has to do with the fact that things like physics, momentum, height and weight not working correctly. Honestly if we had a completely 100% true to life game it'd be incredibly difficult. For example think about playcalling. No one on these forums is going to outscheme/outcoach Bill Belichick so the Patriots would be near impossible to beat. That's not the reason the CPU's playcalling logic makes no sense. EA isn't saying to themselves, "Hey we don't wanna make the game too difficult so let's make the CPU call a HB draw on 4th and 11!" At least I hope not... EA def has motivation to make to make the game accessible to as many people as possible, but I don't think that should be used as a blanket excuse for their inability to program realistic gameplay.

Exactly Sir I agree.. this is just trying to give excuses

lofeazy · 03-31-2011, 10:22 PM

I loved this thread......

I totally argee with the OP saying that BB had the best pass rush in any game before they patched it because of the crying.

(This is when I left the game.)To me they should have made these adjustments:

1)The pass rush in BackBreaker was defective because you could not make any adjustments for pass protection.(TreFacTor said it in this thread.I was yelling about it after they killed the pass rush as an answer.)

2)Also, this system didn't allow you to look down the middle of the field and read what the LBs and safeties were doing. Even if you looked at the TE, you really could only see the left or right half of the field. There were many times I would have liked to look down the middle of the field, see how the safeties rolled, where the blitz was coming from, etc. and then decide which side of the field I wanted to go to.(Pokes404)

And BB would have been fine minus the other things that they need to work on.

jyoung · 03-31-2011, 10:44 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by lilgame06


	I've had plenty of times where I've had tons of time in the pocket, yet Andre Johnson...arguably the best WR in the league...couldnt shake loose a scrub CB who has 97 speed and crappy man coverage capabilities. And i've had times where i have short slants or outs called to elite WRs to get the ball out quick...but that 90+ speed corner with low awareness and man coverage abilities is covering larry fitzgerald like he's making the pro bowl every year.

This is one of the reasons I stopped playing Madden this year.

A team in my online franchise division drafted a 97 speed CB with 25 awareness and 45 man coverage rating.

Then he put the 45 man coverage CB on my 95 overall WR Calvin Johnson, and Megatron couldn't break loose from the scrub CB all game.

MegaBearsFan · 03-31-2011, 10:46 PM

Backbreaker's blocking was not realistic pre-patch. Yeah, the 2 seconds or less that QBs had to throw the ball was realistic, but that was where it stopped. Offensive linemen in Backbreaker simply weren't smart enough to handle the rush. They missed simple reads and made stupid mistakes that no professional player should make. Offensive linemen just didn't make any effort to engage their defenders. Every single one of them just seemed to step in front of the defender and then get spun around or pushed on his butt. Defensive line moves always worked, even against the best offensive linemen. There was no pushing. No jostling. No contest. It was like flipping a coin and instantly knowing which player was going to win.

These problems were compounded by other issues. The camera and controls were certainly an issue. The passing motion that the player had to perform on the joystick took just long enough that even if you reacted in time, the delay between performing the move on the joystick and it actually happening in-game was enough to result in a wobbly-duck interception. Complicating the problems even more were the fact that receiver route-running was fundamentally broken. Receivers did not finish their routes. QBs couldn't lead properly. If you were doing a quick slant, and you threw the ball a split second before the receiver cut (like you're supposed to), then the receiver just runs a streak and the QB throws over his head!

the best counter against an aggressive defense is a quick timing and route-based passing attack. But Backbreaker didn't allow the player to run such an offense because the receiver logic to perform such tasks was completely absent!

The running game would have worked better pre-patch if not for the fact that running backs just crumpled to the ground the moment he gets touched - even if he bumped into his own blocker. If that one thing had been addressed prior to the game's release, the running game would have been much more playable even pre-patch, despite the "realistic" line play. But other problems still existed in the running game. Running backs often got stuck running horizontally instead of vertically, and once that happened, you couldn't see upfield. The camera movements for looking upfield or behind you were jarring and uncomfortable, and when you used them, your player would often change directions because the controls seemed to be based on the camera direction rather than the direction your player was running, so you'd be running off tackle to the right, rotate the camera 90 degrees to the left while still holding the stick to the right, and then your player would turn around and run into the backfield.

overly realistic blocking wasn't the problem with Backbreaker. It was a combination of a lot of things.

PGaither84 · 03-31-2011, 10:54 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dashdagreat


	Its "realistic" in 2k8... im just saying...

Agreed. It isn't perfect in 2k8, but it is FAR better than it is in Madden.

Not only are the animations nice, but if you load up the D-Line with 2 or 3 star linemen [like the 09 Vikings, 07 Giants, 05 or 06 Colts, etc] you will see similar success those real life teams had.

As a result I totally disagree with the title of this thread. besides, that is also why there are difficulty levels. Football games should come out of the box set to Pro by default for all the casual gamers. If that is too much for them, they can drop to rookie. If you are not a casual, unlike the average Madden player, then you can take a few seconds to change the settings, like we already do.

michapop9 · 03-31-2011, 11:11 PM

Madden 11 actually did a good job mimicing the time you had to get rid of the ball if you had passblk at 0 and comp pass rush at 100, it was realistic, the problem was the it was either win or lose as in either my guy gets knocked down and loses or basically knocks the other guy down and wins, if anchoring was involved like adembrowski mentioned, the line play would be excellent, but madden 11 had accurate "nfl pocket time" and u dont need to be an nfl quarterback because you play from the "god" cam.

da ThRONe · 04-01-2011, 12:11 AM

Clearly I'm in the 5% that would love a realistic pass rush. Some of the numbers thrown out are from the best pass rusher in the game. You should feel pressured by the best press rushers. Playing videogame QB much like real QBing you should have a strong idea where you want to go with the ball before the ball is snapped. Now playing as the QB not only can you see the whole field, also you have all day in the pocket.

IMO video games are way too easy, it's suppose to simulate the sport. Ofcourse until we have VR games it will never be that close, but games like ****** and NCAA should be a lot closer this many iterations in.

I think the reason why it would be fustrating is because it's been done wrong for so long having it done right will feel foreign to most.

poopoop · 04-01-2011, 01:12 AM

It's also pretty easy to see where this theory fails by looking at other aspects of the game.

Line play is just interaction between olineman and the dline / blitzers.
Compare it to tackling which is the interaction between ball carrier and defender(s).

Both are unrealistic and flawed.

So if line play won't ever be realistic because it'd make the game too difficult, what is the excuse for not having a realistic tackling engine? Making the tackling engine more realistic would have very little impact on how difficult the game would be in either direction.

I guess we could make excuses and say the devs don't implement realistic tackling because it'd frustrate too many people.

03-31-2011, 10:22 PM	#58
lofeazy Banned OVR: 8 Join Date: Jan 2010	Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games I loved this thread...... I totally argee with the OP saying that BB had the best pass rush in any game before they patched it because of the crying.(This is when I left the game.)To me they should have made these adjustments: 1)The pass rush in BackBreaker was defective because you could not make any adjustments for pass protection.(TreFacTor said it in this thread.I was yelling about it after they killed the pass rush as an answer.) 2)Also, this system didn't allow you to look down the middle of the field and read what the LBs and safeties were doing. Even if you looked at the TE, you really could only see the left or right half of the field. There were many times I would have liked to look down the middle of the field, see how the safeties rolled, where the blitz was coming from, etc. and then decide which side of the field I wanted to go to.(Pokes404) And BB would have been fine minus the other things that they need to work on. Last edited by lofeazy; 03-31-2011 at 10:25 PM.

04-01-2011, 12:11 AM	#63
da ThRONe Fire LesS Miles ASAP! OVR: 35 Join Date: Mar 2009 Location: Atlanta, GA (On unholy ground, NOLA still greatest city ever) Posts: 8,557	Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games Clearly I'm in the 5% that would love a realistic pass rush. Some of the numbers thrown out are from the best pass rusher in the game. You should feel pressured by the best press rushers. Playing videogame QB much like real QBing you should have a strong idea where you want to go with the ball before the ball is snapped. Now playing as the QB not only can you see the whole field, also you have all day in the pocket. IMO video games are way too easy, it's suppose to simulate the sport. Ofcourse until we have VR games it will never be that close, but games like **** and NCAA should be a lot closer this many iterations in. I think the reason why it would be fustrating is because it's been done wrong for so long having it done right will feel foreign to most. __________________ You looking at the Chair MAN!** Number may not tell the whole story ,but they never lie either. Last edited by da ThRONe; 04-01-2011 at 01:21 AM.

04-01-2011, 01:12 AM	#64
poopoop MVP OVR: 4 Join Date: Sep 2003	Re: Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games It's also pretty easy to see where this theory fails by looking at other aspects of the game. Line play is just interaction between olineman and the dline / blitzers. Compare it to tackling which is the interaction between ball carrier and defender(s). Both are unrealistic and flawed. So if line play won't ever be realistic because it'd make the game too difficult, what is the excuse for not having a realistic tackling engine? Making the tackling engine more realistic would have very little impact on how difficult the game would be in either direction. I guess we could make excuses and say the devs don't implement realistic tackling because it'd frustrate too many people. Last edited by poopoop; 04-01-2011 at 01:14 AM.

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03-31-2011, 10:46 PM	#60
MegaBearsFan Rookie OVR: 2 Join Date: Apr 2007	Backbreaker's blocking was not realistic pre-patch. Yeah, the 2 seconds or less that QBs had to throw the ball was realistic, but that was where it stopped. Offensive linemen in Backbreaker simply weren't smart enough to handle the rush. They missed simple reads and made stupid mistakes that no professional player should make. Offensive linemen just didn't make any effort to engage their defenders. Every single one of them just seemed to step in front of the defender and then get spun around or pushed on his butt. Defensive line moves always worked, even against the best offensive linemen. There was no pushing. No jostling. No contest. It was like flipping a coin and instantly knowing which player was going to win. These problems were compounded by other issues. The camera and controls were certainly an issue. The passing motion that the player had to perform on the joystick took just long enough that even if you reacted in time, the delay between performing the move on the joystick and it actually happening in-game was enough to result in a wobbly-duck interception. Complicating the problems even more were the fact that receiver route-running was fundamentally broken. Receivers did not finish their routes. QBs couldn't lead properly. If you were doing a quick slant, and you threw the ball a split second before the receiver cut (like you're supposed to), then the receiver just runs a streak and the QB throws over his head! the best counter against an aggressive defense is a quick timing and route-based passing attack. But Backbreaker didn't allow the player to run such an offense because the receiver logic to perform such tasks was completely absent! The running game would have worked better pre-patch if not for the fact that running backs just crumpled to the ground the moment he gets touched - even if he bumped into his own blocker. If that one thing had been addressed prior to the game's release, the running game would have been much more playable even pre-patch, despite the "realistic" line play. But other problems still existed in the running game. Running backs often got stuck running horizontally instead of vertically, and once that happened, you couldn't see upfield. The camera movements for looking upfield or behind you were jarring and uncomfortable, and when you used them, your player would often change directions because the controls seemed to be based on the camera direction rather than the direction your player was running, so you'd be running off tackle to the right, rotate the camera 90 degrees to the left while still holding the stick to the right, and then your player would turn around and run into the backfield. overly realistic blocking wasn't the problem with Backbreaker. It was a combination of a lot of things.

03-31-2011, 11:11 PM	#62
michapop9 Pro OVR: 9 Join Date: Feb 2008 Blog Entries: 1	Madden 11 actually did a good job mimicing the time you had to get rid of the ball if you had passblk at 0 and comp pass rush at 100, it was realistic, the problem was the it was either win or lose as in either my guy gets knocked down and loses or basically knocks the other guy down and wins, if anchoring was involved like adembrowski mentioned, the line play would be excellent, but madden 11 had accurate "nfl pocket time" and u dont need to be an nfl quarterback because you play from the "god" cam.

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Why Line Play Will Never Be Realistic in Football Games