NBA Elite 11 Video: Kevin Durant, Brandon Jennings & Stephen Curry Talk New Controls

[Dalsanto0026]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

I hear what you're saying. This is one of the biggest problems with video games, and sports video games in particular. Everyone wants total control and perfect looking animations, but you really can't have both. It's a trade-off and finding the right balance is very difficult. We are putting more emphasis on control this year, and trying to make the game look as good as possible given the level of control you get. The videos are meant to explain that so people know what they'll be getting, and also get people's reactions to the changes so we can make some late adjustments. We hear your concerns about the visual quality of the animations, and we will do our best to address them. But we are not going to sacrifice the main pillar of the game this year which is control. Until you feel the difference that makes in the game, you're only getting half the picture. I just want you to try it before you write it off. If you don't like the demo, then there's no harm done right?

Fair enough. I'm glad you understand my concerns, this gives me some hope at least.

I appreciate your reply.

[Dalsanto0026]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jano

Lol well thats what you got NBA 2K11 for haha! its great to have options. Honestly I'm all about the game playing like real life so this is the game I'm leaning towards. I can take a game where the animations look a lil off if as long its not doing anything to ruin the experience gameplay wise (ie glitches or cheesing). If I play a game with a friend that has the intensity and pressure of a real bball game I'll be good. I obviously don't want the game to look like absolute crap but hey if it controls well and it require bball knowledge/fundamentals to be successful im down to play. Because in the end thats what's going to keep me goin. If I don't feel like I can control my player like I can on the real court I'm going to have a problem plain and simple. In real life my success/failures are usually determined by my output so which ever game can reflect that the most im playing it. My first priority is to feel like the player then we can move onto the player actually looking like himself on the court. If I don't feel like I have the speed of Westbrook or the strength of Shaq then I'm not goin to care if it looks that way necessarily. The feel has to be there because when its not there it makes the game seem a lil empty to me..

You make some good points.

[Jano]

And you made some good points to Dalsanto.. All I was trying to get across was that we should just accept the game's for what they are or at least what they are attempting to be.

I've been on this forum for a while and the most important thing I've learned is that we need to accept games especially sports related ones for what they are. If the game is more about controls then anims accept that and adjust your feedback accordingly.

Don't go yelling at a dev because it doesn't look a certain way when that's not their design goal you know? Instead tell them why you don't like something and be done with it.

If they address it fine, if not just move on and don't stress about it. I remember i used to stress about accessories and graphical errors with 2K and all that got me was frustration. Because at the time 2K was trying to build up a core for their game and they weren't all that concerned with the look.

Now they have built that core and have made the game look great visually, so when we look at games keep that in mind. Think "What is the development team's goal for this year?" once we know that we should try and help them in that regard.

Anything else will just be wasted energy because its their goal. Its not your goal and its not mine so try to respect and honor that rather then just brush it aside like most people. And I'm not saying to not point out things you see wrong but when you do keep their goals in mind when something doesn't look the way you want it to be.

Trust me doing it this way will make you appreciate the fact that they are releasing videos so early. And also help you to be more patient when things don't look right or if they aren't releasing exactly what you want to see right now...

[DaveDQ]

Quote: Originally Posted by Behindshadows

It's more of a joint movement issue...I've played real basketball for 20 + years. And never have I seen player move so stiff, no hip movement, elbow joints with no fluctuations or directions. Knees not bending on jumps and so on. It's definitely the animations that are killing their titles, as it has been since Live 06. Players are too stiff....I hope more will come of it. Plus EA use to be masters at graphics, but the images / videos have shown the lack of all things graphically impressive. Too bland, lack of detail, lightning, etc. But then again, it's a W.I.P and more will be shown later.

It's something I feel goes hand in hand with total control. The animation let's you see what you just did with the controls. If it's moving in an awkward fashion I don't think you'll get the best representation of what the new controls are accomplishing.

[fsufan4423]

For some reason the release of their shots look funny. I hope this is dealt with.

[joel0078]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

It's tough to explain a massive improvement in control any other way. Control is something you only appreciate when you feel it. It will never impress anyone through a video. We could have released beautiful videos of canned mocap anims and just talked about control. But that would have been disingenuous. All I ask is that you not judge us completely until you're picked up a controller and felt the improvements. The demo will be enough for you to understand what we're talking about. If you still don't like it, so be it. But understand the tradeoff between look and feel, and appreciate how early in development we're releasing these videos. Thanks.

Well said and that is exactly how I will make my final judgment of the game.

[joel0078]

Quote: Originally Posted by rEAnimator

I hear what you're saying. This is one of the biggest problems with video games, and sports video games in particular. Everyone wants total control and perfect looking animations, but you really can't have both. It's a trade-off and finding the right balance is very difficult. We are putting more emphasis on control this year, and trying to make the game look as good as possible given the level of control you get. The videos are meant to explain that so people know what they'll be getting, and also get people's reactions to the changes so we can make some late adjustments. We hear your concerns about the visual quality of the animations, and we will do our best to address them. But we are not going to sacrifice the main pillar of the game this year which is control. Until you feel the difference that makes in the game, you're only getting half the picture. I just want you to try it before you write it off. If you don't like the demo, then there's no harm done right?

Reanimator,

I just posted that I was going to play the game and judge for myself, which I will. But after having read this thread and a couple others which you replied in, I'm concerned that you're content with having a great control scheme, while allowing other aspects of the game take a hit. I hope I'm wrong about that, but that's what it sounds like.

Saying "we hear the concerns about visual animations and we will do our best to address that...but we're not going to sacrifice the main pillar (controls) of this years game", is troubling to me. You can have the fanciest, smoothest controls in the world, but if your graphics and animations (and other aspects of the game) aren't up to par, you might as well just stop development right now. In addition to that, don't forget you're dealing with a consumer base who has been hearing "next year this, next year that" from producers for years, when it comes to issues that needed to be fixed ASAP. So saying you will do your best to address that problem doesn't carry much weight and if I were a betting man, I'd place my bet on those problems not being addressed by release, at least IMO.

As basketball video game fans, we want the most well rounded, polished, product on the market. Please don't leave us with great controls but crappy animations and graphics, only to be able to say for the 2012 game, "we had a great foundation in last years game with the controls, and now we are going to improve the graphics and we've added 500 new animations too". This series has been #2 for along time and as long as it continues focusing on new features rather than fixing old problems, it will remain #2.

[rEAnimator]

Quote: Originally Posted by joel0078

Reanimator, I just posted that I was going to play the game and judge for myself, which I will. But after having read this thread and a couple others which you replied in, I'm concerned that you're content with having a great control scheme, while allowing other aspects of the game take a hit. I hope I'm wrong about that, but that's what it sounds like. Saying "we hear the concerns about visual animations and we will do our best to address that...but we're not going to sacrifice the main pillar (controls) of this years game", is troubling to me. You can have the fanciest, smoothest controls in the world, but if your graphics and animations (and other aspects of the game) aren't up to par, you might as well just stop development right now. In addition to that, don't forget you're dealing with a consumer base who has been hearing "next year this, next year that" from producers, when it comes to fixes that needed to be fixed ASAP. So saying you will do your best to address that problem doesn't carry much weight and if I were a betting man, I'd place my bet on those problems not being addressed by release, at least IMO. As basketball video game fans, we want the most well rounded, polished, product on the market. Please don't leave us with great controls but crappy animations and graphics, only to be able to say for the 2012 game, "we had a great foundation in last years game with the controls, and now we are going to improve the graphics and we've added 500 new animations too". This series has been #2 for along time and as long as it continues focusing on new features rather than fixing old problems, it will remain #2.

Oh believe me, I am not content with having poor animation quality, and neither is anyone else on the team. We are working extremely hard to improve those areas. Every time I see a glitch in one of the videos we release it is painful for me to watch, and I immediately want to get back to work and make the game better.

I was posting my replies last night after midnight from work and I was not the only one here. And in between posts I was working on trying to make the defender feel less "floaty" when moving around.

I am trying to be honest with you by not making promises about what the game will be, but rather be completely open about where the game is right now and what we're trying to accomplish before we ship the product.

Please don't confuse my honestly with complacency.

I'm not a marketing guy, I'm a programmer on the game. I'm not trying to spin things to make them sound good. I'm telling you the way it is.

And despite some visual problems (that I hope we can address), I am extremely proud of what we've accomplished so far this year. The team has worked harder than anyone could have asked, and done more in one year of development than I've ever seen before.

We took on an ambitious challenge, and we nailed the primary goal for the game which was to revolutionize the controls for basketball sim games and introduce a physical element to the game. And when I say revolutionize the controls, I mean that. When you try it you'll understand. This game is really good.

Does that mean we won't be able to fix the visual problems? I don't know. I think we can, but it's not done yet so I can't say for sure.

But what I can say is that I will be proud of the product when it is released, and I am very proud of the team that I'm on and the hard work we've put in to building this product.

I hope you guys feel the same way when you try it.