D43 - Slider Tweaks - Player Movement, etc

[RetroDee4Three]

Quote: Originally Posted by gottibino

I've been playing 2k20 but actually prefer 2k18... do u still have or remember your sliders for 2k18 that u can post?

I don't have sliders for 2K18.

Sorry man.

[gottibino]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetroDee4Three

I don't have sliders for 2K18. Sorry man.

np, it was worth the ask, thx

[RetroDee4Three]

In responding to a question on the NLSC, I gave descriptive reasoning for most of my slider adjustments. This may help some of you understand why I made the changes I did, and why my gameplay looks the way it does.

One of the biggest adjustments I tried to make is to make with/without the ball movement make more sense. By default, the defense on the fastbreak can almost never catch up to the ball handler, and scrambling out to a shooter is almost impossible. I have the without ball sliders slightly higher than with, and this helps balance things out and make things more realistic, which I believe with translate well to User vs CPU gameplay. For example, in that most recent video I posted, I was able to get a chase down block with Favors from behind, as he was able to catch up when by default I dont think I would have been able to make that play.

In the gameplay videos I am showing, you will see my brother and I constantly icon switching and scrambling out to shooters, it keeps us busy constantly and fully immersed in the gameplay. With the speed adjustments I mentioned above, we don't feel completely helpless on ball swings on the perimeter, etc. (We also use Icon passing constantly, you will see a ton of that in the videos). The slight uptick I made in pass speed is to make moving the ball more realistic, and eliminate some of those slow/lobby passes that you rarely see in real life, but happen a lot by default in the game.

Acceleration at 65 helps players achieve more realistic first step/Catch and go movement, and helps fastbreaks feel more organic and true to life. it also helps with movement off the ball, whether you are coming off a screen, or making a face cut, etc

Ball handling moved up to 65 is to make the players move at more realistic speed on moves, and in general. Ball handling is heavily tied into acceleration/first step/catch and go speed, which is why Aaron Gordon feels like an absolute slug by default because his ball handling is somewhat low in the game, and the ball handling slider being 50 by default doesnt help either. And anybody who has watched Aaron Gordon knows that he has a very solid first step/catch and go. Putting the ball handling up to 65 doesnt make Brook Lopez, Whiteside etc dribble like Kyrie, either. They still cant do anything with the dribble, because 65 isnt overpowering, and they have low ball handling ratings as it is.

Body up sensitivity at 25 (down from 50) helps curve the constant sucking into other players that occurs by default, but keeps the game balanced physically. From my experience, it also helps with limiting the number of body steals that occur, and long drawn out contact animations that happen a lot by default.

Lateral Quickness at 60 allows for you to not only scramble better if needed, but also balances out the defense with the increase in the other player movement sliders (acceleration, ball handling, movement with the ball, etc). Its creates a good balance where my brother and I can cut eachother off at times on drives, or atleast get in position to body up where we otherwise would not be able to. At 60, it helped eliminate some of the sluggish feel you sometimes get trying to slide your feet. It also helps with help defense, as you can better go from weak side to help side (example, offensive player gets by his man and is headed to the hoop, but you are on the opposite block, you have the ability to get to the middle of the paint or opposite block quicker to contest)

The inside and driving contact frequency sliders are lowered a bit to also help with curving the "sucking into" other players which happens so frequently by default, and it seems to help with control, as we find less canned animations exist at the hoop with these lowered. I feel this will translate well against the CPU. It also creates more realistic sequences under the hoop as well, as opposed to seeing the offensive player constantly sucked into players around him, causing him to miss 4, 5 or even 6 times in a row right in front of the hoop. It also seems to help with making rebounding feel more realistic, and makes you feel like you have more control. My brother and I enjoy having rebound battles during the season.

The biggest goal of these sliders is to get the feel right, to have the game feel more organic and true to life on the sticks.

Let me know if you have any questions.

[gottibino]

Quote: Originally Posted by RetroDee4Three

In responding to a question on the NLSC, I gave descriptive reasoning for most of my slider adjustments. This may help some of you understand why I made the changes I did, and why my gameplay looks the way it does. One of the biggest adjustments I tried to make is to make with/without the ball movement make more sense. By default, the defense on the fastbreak can almost never catch up to the ball handler, and scrambling out to a shooter is almost impossible. I have the without ball sliders slightly higher than with, and this helps balance things out and make things more realistic, which I believe with translate well to User vs CPU gameplay. For example, in that most recent video I posted, I was able to get a chase down block with Favors from behind, as he was able to catch up when by default I dont think I would have been able to make that play. In the gameplay videos I am showing, you will see my brother and I constantly icon switching and scrambling out to shooters, it keeps us busy constantly and fully immersed in the gameplay. With the speed adjustments I mentioned above, we don't feel completely helpless on ball swings on the perimeter, etc. (We also use Icon passing constantly, you will see a ton of that in the videos). The slight uptick I made in pass speed is to make moving the ball more realistic, and eliminate some of those slow/lobby passes that you rarely see in real life, but happen a lot by default in the game. Acceleration at 65 helps players achieve more realistic first step/Catch and go movement, and helps fastbreaks feel more organic and true to life. it also helps with movement off the ball, whether you are coming off a screen, or making a face cut, etc Ball handling moved up to 65 is to make the players move at more realistic speed on moves, and in general. Ball handling is heavily tied into acceleration/first step/catch and go speed, which is why Aaron Gordon feels like an absolute slug by default because his ball handling is somewhat low in the game, and the ball handling slider being 50 by default doesnt help either. And anybody who has watched Aaron Gordon knows that he has a very solid first step/catch and go. Putting the ball handling up to 65 doesnt make Brook Lopez, Whiteside etc dribble like Kyrie, either. They still cant do anything with the dribble, because 65 isnt overpowering, and they have low ball handling ratings as it is. Body up sensitivity at 25 (down from 50) helps curve the constant sucking into other players that occurs by default, but keeps the game balanced physically. From my experience, it also helps with limiting the number of body steals that occur, and long drawn out contact animations that happen a lot by default. Lateral Quickness at 60 allows for you to not only scramble better if needed, but also balances out the defense with the increase in the other player movement sliders (acceleration, ball handling, movement with the ball, etc). Its creates a good balance where my brother and I can cut eachother off at times on drives, or atleast get in position to body up where we otherwise would not be able to. At 60, it helped eliminate some of the sluggish feel you sometimes get trying to slide your feet. It also helps with help defense, as you can better go from weak side to help side (example, offensive player gets by his man and is headed to the hoop, but you are on the opposite block, you have the ability to get to the middle of the paint or opposite block quicker to contest) The inside and driving contact frequency sliders are lowered a bit to also help with curving the "sucking into" other players which happens so frequently by default, and it seems to help with control, as we find less canned animations exist at the hoop with these lowered. I feel this will translate well against the CPU. It also creates more realistic sequences under the hoop as well, as opposed to seeing the offensive player constantly sucked into players around him, causing him to miss 4, 5 or even 6 times in a row right in front of the hoop. It also seems to help with making rebounding feel more realistic, and makes you feel like you have more control. My brother and I enjoy having rebound battles during the season. The biggest goal of these sliders is to get the feel right, to have the game feel more organic and true to life on the sticks. Let me know if you have any questions.

this is awesome & very helpful! I'm sure I'm speaking for a few of us out there lol but I for one, have a difficult time understanding the system & all the correlations & relationships between the sliders. thanks again

[RetroDee4Three]

Quote: Originally Posted by gottibino

this is awesome & very helpful! I'm sure I'm speaking for a few of us out there lol but I for one, have a difficult time understanding the system & all the correlations & relationships between the sliders. thanks again

No problem.

Basketball is a game of athletes, no reason for the players to move like slugs (in turn feeling like slugs on the sticks).

Just turning up game speed (which I left at default) doesnt help fix or curve any game issues really, because doing that doesnt help with the movement with/without ball issue I talked about, or the acceleration being so underwhelming and unrealistic, or the being sucked in issues, etc

In order to attack the player movement issues and over feel, multiple adjustments to the movement sliders need to take place in order to balance things out. The game has movement imbalances by default (with the default sliders)

Like I said, my slider tweaks may not be for everybody, but they are worth a try for those who have issues with some with the feel of the game and the gameplay issues I mentioned.

[ehh]

I've played 2K since the series began. Been through all the ups and downs. I've reached a level of resentment with the series the last few years, to the point where I buy the game on Black Friday and play ten full games if I'm lucky. Player movement has been a deal-breaker for a while for me.

I fired up 2K20--purchased on Black Friday and I've yet to finish a full a 12-minute game--on Wednesday while I was home sick and started a Knicks franchise. I typically play on lower level sliders (Pro-based) so I can try to enjoy the game. As has been the case for the last few years, I quit the games I started before halftime because the player movement was driving my crazy. As usual, I couldn't play anything that resembled modern NBA basketball. I'd always resort to manual PnRs, post ups, or one or two quick hitters (fades, floppy). I never had success running motion offenses because everything was so clunky. Last night, at about 10 PM, I quit yet another game and was ready to go to bed but told myself to check OS and see if there were any newer slider sets. I found and tried yours.

What a revelation. I played one game and lost by 15 to the Nets (at full strength, with KD/Kyrie) but it was the best game of 2K I've ever played. The player movement was fantastic. I've been looking for this kind of experience for years. Dribble handoffs were smooth and worked pretty well. I could actually run motion on 75% of my possessions and it led to some beautiful basketball and plenty of variety. Drives and kicks, making extra passes, forcing defensive rotations, etc. The simple stuff that's so key. My players could pass and catch the ball like professional athletes, not like fumbling, awkward pre-teens. The nine CPU-controlled players on the court were mostly smart and aware, not braindead and stagnant like I see on so many other sliders.

The biggest surprise was that my CPU teammates were active and good on the defensive end of the court. I drafted two rookies (PG, SF) with defensive badges and both were making plays. The CPU couldn't mindlessly dribble 15 times and work their way into the paint; my teammates were poking the ball loose with regularity and it led to some great transition basketball.

I was into the game the entire time and wanted to start another game afterward but it was well past my bedtime. I can't tell you how long it's been since that's been the case for me with 2K. Thank you for creating these. I'm hoping the shine doesn't wear off and I can play 2K well through the summer.

[RetroDee4Three]

This is great, thank you!

Sounds like you were having some of the same feelings/issues with the player movement over the last few years.

The reason this is isn't a complete slider set, is because the tweaks I made attack the biggest weakness of 2K20: The feel

If the game doesnt feel right on the sticks, and you are getting more frustration than enjoyment out of the game, why would you want to play? 2K18 through 2K20 gave off a pretty poor first impression to a lot of people because out of the box (default sliders, ratings, tendencies) the games didnt FEEL right.

I talked about this on a podcast recently: The majority of gamers actually dont mess with sliders/ratings/tendencies, they choose a difficulty level and just jump right in. That is a very LARGE portion of the consumer base, that's why it's so important for the game to be strong mechanically at its core, that out of the box it gives a good first impression and is fun, and that the pros outweigh the cons.

The whole point of playing basketball video games is to make memories with them, regardless of the mode you choose to play. I have had more frustrations with 2K over the last 3 years than I have enjoyment, and for me that's a red flag.

Thanks again for the feedback. I may post your response over on the NLSC thread I created to hopefully encourage more people to try these sliders out. My brother and I are almost 15 games into a MyLeague right now (Pelicans = me, Rockets = him), and it's the first time we have gotten this deep into a MyLeague since 2K17. The videos I posted should be a clear indication that we are having pretty competitive, and overall fun games against eachother.

[tyberious4now]

I cant lie your sliders are darn good!! Great job and thanks!!

BTW these sliders should be stickied to the Initial front page