MLB 15 The Show Livestream - Franchise Improvements, Inside the Radio Show & More

[nemesis04]

Quote: Originally Posted by Blzer

I've listed the fixes/improvements that would need to be made to get it to work well. I think a lot of them need to be naturally done, though. Not so much: "How can we get more extra base hits from doubles?" Thinking in those terms will cause them to do things such as lowering RF arm speed on throws to first as they did in years past. The first tweak, IMO, is pinching the corner outfielders closer to center field. They just hug the lines too much, even if by a few feet.

Pinching the corner fielders reduces your gappers. If you remember we played this chess game years back at CD.

[Blzer]

Quote: Originally Posted by nemesis04

Pinching the corner fielders reduces your gappers. If you remember we played this chess game years back at CD.

I don't remember the actual experimentation (and if you say you did it I believe you), but I have always understood that balls hit into the gap are not only faster via speed off the bat, but also stay in the air longer thus maintaining that high rate of velocity. There are just a lot more things in play here that are physics based which are either unaccounted for or not utilized in this game.

All I'm saying is I hope that fixing doubles is a result of naturally making the game more authentic on all levels of the physics being applied to the balls, ground, air, players, etc. and not little things like slowing down an outfielder's arm on this kind of play to remedy what is a worse situation already.

For example, one issue also has always been outfielders getting to balls too quickly to throw a runner out at home. A suggested issue is that the outfielders play too shallow, and the proposed fix is to back them up more by default. Someone might then jump in and say that there will be an issue of no balls going over outfielders' heads then, when really the reason for outfielders playing in might be to make that very thing happen. The actual fixes might be doing things such as: creating more line drive/fly ball types that have a heavier fall so they can get over their head or reducing outfielder speed going back on balls rather than going in or to the side.

I think not having an authentic broadcast camera hides our ability to compare the difference between something in this game versus real life to really pinpoint what the true issues are, but I believe they are all physics-based, and small tweaks will just create larger issues.

I mean take a look at this, this is A.J. Pierzynski batting on July 27th and he has eight home runs. I guess that means he's a little less than a rare home run guy, but he's not going to finish with 20 on said season.



Outfielders play back because it's easier to go in on a ball, and they cover the gaps because balls hit there will get by them more quickly than down the lines, and besides only a handful of players they understand that the most a player can get out of a hit down either line is a double. I don't have a statistic for this, but I'm willing to bet more triples are hit in power alleys.

I just think there is a lot to adjust with this game, and I think the fixes are being brought about backwards. What I mean by that is I think the issues were looked at, and then the question asked was, "How do we get more of this result without going for the complete overhaul?" and the fix was to move the outfielder positioning. Rather, if the time was there to make this happen, the optimal solution would be to place the outfielders were they are supposed to be, ask: "Now what needs to be completely overhauled to get desired results based on where they are at?" Basically, it's a calibration thing.

[countryboy]

Quote: Originally Posted by Blzer

I don't remember the actual experimentation (and if you say you did it I believe you), but I have always understood that balls hit into the gap are not only faster via speed off the bat, but also stay in the air longer thus maintaining that high rate of velocity. There are just a lot more things in play here that are physics based which are either unaccounted for or not utilized in this game. All I'm saying is I hope that fixing doubles is a result of naturally making the game more authentic on all levels of the physics being applied to the balls, ground, air, players, etc. and not little things like slowing down an outfielder's arm on this kind of play to remedy what is a worse situation already. For example, one issue also has always been outfielders getting to balls too quickly to throw a runner out at home. A suggested issue is that the outfielders play too shallow, and the proposed fix is to back them up more by default. Someone might then jump in and say that there will be an issue of no balls going over outfielders' heads then, when really the reason for outfielders playing in might be to make that very thing happen. The actual fixes might be doing things such as: creating more line drive/fly ball types that have a heavier fall so they can get over their head or reducing outfielder speed going back on balls rather than going in or to the side. I think not having an authentic broadcast camera hides our ability to compare the difference between something in this game versus real life to really pinpoint what the true issues are, but I believe they are all physics-based, and small tweaks will just create larger issues.

Personally, I've always thought this issue was due to how the runners round the bases. If you watch, and either last year or year before was the worst, the runners will slow down in speed as they round bases. Its as though the change of direction when rounding the base, slows them down more than it should.

I think that baserunning is a key component to some of the issues people are having with both doubles, triples, and players getting thrown out at home. Not saying that the fielders, physics and other elements don't need to be addressed/fixed, just that in my opinion, baserunning has to be added to the equation.

[Blzer]

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

Personally, I've always thought this issue was due to how the runners round the bases. If you watch, and either last year or year before was the worst, the runners will slow down in speed as they round bases. Its as though the change of direction when rounding the base, slows them down more than it should. I think that baserunning is a key component to some of the issues people are having with both doubles, triples, and players getting thrown out at home. Not saying that the fielders, physics and other elements don't need to be addressed/fixed, just that in my opinion, baserunning has to be added to the equation.

Oh, I definitely don't disagree with that. We had a nice thread about MLB 13: The Show on baserunners. I contributed probably a dozen posts to that thread, most substantially this one. That was a very bad issue that seems to have since been addressed.

But yeah, there is a lot more going on than the baserunning that would need to actually be looked at, and I think one fix fixes all, if you know what I'm saying. Instead of looking at the desired results, they really just have to look at how physics take course in this game in reality. I mean obviously they do, which is why we always get updated ball physics (and I'll never understand what happened in MLB 10 with those wonky physics).

[Jr.]

Quote: Originally Posted by Blzer

Outfielders play back because it's easier to go in on a ball, and they cover the gaps because balls hit there will get by them more quickly than down the lines, and besides only a handful of players they understand that the most a player can get out of a hit down either line is a double. I don't have a statistic for this, but I'm willing to bet more triples are hit in power alleys. I just think there is a lot to adjust with this game, and I think the fixes are being brought about backwards. What I mean by that is I think the issues were looked at, and then the question asked was, "How do we get more of this result without going for the complete overhaul?" and the fix was to move the outfielder positioning. Rather, if the time was there to make this happen, the optimal solution would be to place the outfielders were they are supposed to be, ask: "Now what needs to be completely overhauled to get desired results based on where they are at?" Basically, it's a calibration thing.

This point really depends on the field layout. But a ball down the RF line is probably more likely to turn into a triple than a ball in either gap, unless its a deep gap (like in Houston, Arizona, or Colorado, for instance). But I completely agree with your ultimate point that it seems like results are trying to be achieved around the limitations, rather than fixing the overlying issues.

Quote: Originally Posted by countryboy

Personally, I've always thought this issue was due to how the runners round the bases. If you watch, and either last year or year before was the worst, the runners will slow down in speed as they round bases. Its as though the change of direction when rounding the base, slows them down more than it should. I think that baserunning is a key component to some of the issues people are having with both doubles, triples, and players getting thrown out at home. Not saying that the fielders, physics and other elements don't need to be addressed/fixed, just that in my opinion, baserunning has to be added to the equation.

I agree it's partly how baserunners round bases, especially 3rd base. I would love to see deeper leads (more toward the OF) with 2 outs in order to cut down the angle and take a more direct route to home plate.

but the OFers are also too aggressive coming in on balls on the ground in the OF. They don't really break down and come in at full speed. In real life, it's rare that an OF is going to sprint full speed and maintain that speed as he fields a ball on the ground.

I also think the OF is too small compared to the players' size and stride length when running, but that's just speculation on my part.

[Blzer]

Quote: Originally Posted by Jr.

This point really depends on the field layout. But a ball down the RF line is probably more likely to turn into a triple than a ball in either gap, unless its a deep gap (like in Houston, Arizona, or Colorado, for instance). But I completely agree with your ultimate point that it seems like results are trying to be achieved around the limitations, rather than fixing the overlying issues.

Absolutely, and I mean I understand that the game doesn't account for the stadium they are in. For instance, if you play at Polo Grounds you aren't going to see the outfielder strategically shy away from the lines and cover the power alleys, meanwhile at Wrigley you aren't going to see the RF line hugged more with power lefties (then again, they are probably right at where they need to be right now anyway ).

Quote:

I agree it's partly how baserunners round bases, especially 3rd base. I would love to see deeper leads (more toward the OF) with 2 outs in order to cut down the angle and take a more direct route to home plate.

QFT. I know for certain I mentioned this in the "rounding third" thread.

Quote:

but the OFers are also too aggressive coming in on balls on the ground in the OF. They don't really break down and come in at full speed. In real life, it's rare that an OF is going to sprint full speed and maintain that speed as he fields a ball on the ground.

Honestly, this is it more than anything else. Players rarely, rarely are seen sprinting upon fielding a ball on the ground. Anybody, go outside right now and try to play head-on with a ball coming on the ground at 50 MPH while you're sprinting. Heck, try it in the air. Your amount of control, precision, and everything else is very hard to get right in this situation. It just doesn't work.

The game obviously doesn't need to account for this because you can still "catch" a ball at these speeds until the next animation kicks in, which is why I'm always for a sprint button and even a... not a jog button, but like a controlled run modifier (like setting up under a fly ball or behind a base hit).

The final thing of course, as I have mentioned in the past, is introducing a momentum system. In this game, you can cut the ball right off no matter which direction you're going, and the consequences for your throwing power or timing will not much be affected. In real life, you want to get your body geared toward the place you're going to throw the ball to. So if I'm in RF and a base hit comes to me, cutting the ball off running to my left will not help me get an outfielder out at home any time soon. I'll have to take a deep angle, get around it, and start coming in toward the ball so my momentum can take my throw that way. Same with... you guessed it... balls hit down the lines and the way they take their deep angles.

Quote:

I also think the OF is too small compared to the players' size and stride length when running, but that's just speculation on my part.

Sometimes it really does feel that way. Like, maybe they need to take an inch off their bodies or something. But hey, that's one important inch! Maybe their strides are too long, as you said. I'm not saying they accelerate too quickly, but their amount of coverage is astounding. Thankfully we have sliders to help a bit, but I don't know if, once again, minor tweaks address the overall bigger concerns.

[LastActionHero]

Great stream, lots of info and just great fun to watch these guys having so much fun playing the game. This passion is a big factor for why this game is one of the best sport titles out there.

Ok so now I really hope the next stream is about stadiums/graphics.

[Will I Am]

Nice posts Blzer.

I say give us a hustle button, similar to pys. Gives just a slight boost in speed that turns outs into close call doubles and triples. I know it sounds arcadey but it actually works pretty well and it also gives the user more input. Just a thought.